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Preds one of the least successful on-ice teams among non-traditional cities

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Old
06-14-2007, 09:51 AM
  #1
dulzhok
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Preds one of the least successful on-ice teams among non-traditional cities

Avoiding the all the other subjects right now, let's talk about on-ice success…

I’m sick of hearing Leipold and Pred bashers say something to effect of “Nashville has one of best teams in the NHL, yet still rank towards the bottom of the league in attendacne.”

Cut the crap. Real winning in today’s sports world is winning in the post season. We have gone 9 years without winning one playoff round. This is one of the worst streaks in the NHL, especially when you are operating in a non-traditional market.

Look at how other non-traditional cities have faired….

Dallas: Won playoff round in first season
SJ: Won playoff round in 3rd season
Florida: Went to cup finals in 3rd year
Colorado: Won Stanley Cup in first year
Carolina: Went to finals in 5th year
Anaheim: Won playoff round in 4th year
Nashville: Hasn’t won a playoff round in 9 years

Here are the teams who have struggled to our extent:

1) Tampa Bay: went 10 years without winning a playoff round, and consistently drew the smallest crowd in the NHL. When they won the cup two years ago, ticked sales spiked dramatically. A pure example of what it takes to get support in a non-traditional city. Winning the cup totally turned around the tune in Tampa.

2) Phoenix: Have gone 11 years without winning a playoff round. When they first moved, they had immediate regular season success and made the playoffs consistently. That sustained them in the beginning. Now they have a worse attendance than Nashville, yet have over 3 times the population to draw from.

3) Atlanta: Remember this their second take in the NHL… Made the playoffs for the first time this year. There attendance is right around ours, despite have 5 times the population.

------

Look to the Titans for a perfect example of why winning only significantly matters in the postseason. We are in football country. Yet when the Titans played at Vandy, the attendance and “buzz” was pathetic. They moved to the new stadium and made it to the Super Bowl right off the bat. The town is buzzin’, and right then and there, local corporations naturally support where the buzz was.

Sorry Lieopold, you don’t create buzz by winning in the regular season. You say you’ve done all that you can? No, you have done the single most important thing—win in the postseason.

This was why Poile was canned in Washington. He had an amazing streak of making to the postseason, yet totally failed to assemble a team that would win the playoffs.

Don’t blame the corporations. Don’t blame the marketing department. Quit saying you've tried all you know to do. Blame your lack of postseason success, cause that’s the root of the issue.

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06-14-2007, 11:04 AM
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tulsytrid1
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Nice Post Dulz

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06-14-2007, 11:08 AM
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Good post, but I wouldn't say that Colorado is a non-traditional hockey city. My only other comment is I don't think it's fair to compare to teams that were established prior to being in the non-traditional cities. The comparison should be to expansion teams. Colorado had a power house team when they were moved from Quebec, and the Stars were pretty good as well.

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06-14-2007, 11:15 AM
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Dallas: Relocated
SJ: Took half of the North Stars team, so ahead of the game vs. expansion
Florida: True Expansion team
Colorado: Relocated
Carolina: Relocated
Anaheim: True Expansion team
Nashville: True Expansion team

I don't think you can put Dallas, Coloardo and Carolina in the same category as expansion teams.

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Old
06-14-2007, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrt2000 View Post
Dallas: Relocated
SJ: Took half of the North Stars team, so ahead of the game vs. expansion
Florida: True Expansion team
Colorado: Relocated
Carolina: Relocated
Anaheim: True Expansion team
Nashville: True Expansion team

I don't think you can put Dallas, Coloardo and Carolina in the same category as expansion teams.

even though you're right, that's not the point he's making. The point is when teams have either been relocated or expanded to new non traditional markets these teams have experienced some success to jumpstart their attendance woes and get more people interested.

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06-14-2007, 02:10 PM
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What Terrible regular seasons, I would hate to see the Leafs rack up that amount of points

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06-14-2007, 07:10 PM
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dulzhok
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrt2000 View Post
Dallas: Relocated
SJ: Took half of the North Stars team, so ahead of the game vs. expansion
Florida: True Expansion team
Colorado: Relocated
Carolina: Relocated
Anaheim: True Expansion team
Nashville: True Expansion team

I don't think you can put Dallas, Coloardo and Carolina in the same category as expansion teams.
This is nothing about expansion vs. relocated. It's about putting hockey in a non-tradional location. Hockey in Dallas was new. Hockey in Miami was new. Both had postseason success shorting after arriving in their city.

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06-15-2007, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jeremy82 View Post
What Terrible regular seasons, I would hate to see the Leafs rack up that amount of points
Suffer through 5 years like our first 5 and you will rack up that amou.... oh, wait, no you won't. nevermind.

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06-15-2007, 01:29 AM
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You guys are getting bent about this ?!

The Buffalo Sabres franchise started in 1970. We've even had some legendary lines - i.e. The French Connection (hey they even got thier own SONG !! http://youtube.com/watch?v=T6WKMNmFsxM ) . No Stanley cups, same for Vancouver (our twin team in the west).

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06-15-2007, 10:38 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
Avoiding the all the other subjects right now, let's talk about on-ice success…

I’m sick of hearing Leipold and Pred bashers say something to effect of “Nashville has one of best teams in the NHL, yet still rank towards the bottom of the league in attendacne.”

Cut the crap. Real winning in today’s sports world is winning in the post season. We have gone 9 years without winning one playoff round. This is one of the worst streaks in the NHL, especially when you are operating in a non-traditional market.

Look at how other non-traditional cities have faired….

Dallas: Won playoff round in first season
SJ: Won playoff round in 3rd season
Florida: Went to cup finals in 3rd year
Colorado: Won Stanley Cup in first year
Carolina: Went to finals in 5th year
Anaheim: Won playoff round in 4th year
Nashville: Hasn’t won a playoff round in 9 years

Here are the teams who have struggled to our extent:

1) Tampa Bay: went 10 years without winning a playoff round, and consistently drew the smallest crowd in the NHL. When they won the cup two years ago, ticked sales spiked dramatically. A pure example of what it takes to get support in a non-traditional city. Winning the cup totally turned around the tune in Tampa.

2) Phoenix: Have gone 11 years without winning a playoff round. When they first moved, they had immediate regular season success and made the playoffs consistently. That sustained them in the beginning. Now they have a worse attendance than Nashville, yet have over 3 times the population to draw from.

3) Atlanta: Remember this their second take in the NHL… Made the playoffs for the first time this year. There attendance is right around ours, despite have 5 times the population.
As an outsider, I feel like I have to stick up for the Preds here. The Preds started from the ground up in 1998 as an EXPANSION TEAM.

Dallas was a premade NHL franchise which relocated from Minnesota and already had Modano, Lehtinen, Langenbrunner, Hatcher and other guys who contributed to the success of the Stars early on. Still, they had from 1994 to 1999 to build a winner.

San Jose won some playoff rounds between 1993 and 1994, but they were terrible again in 1996 and remained terrible till 1999 or whenever and had to go through a very painful rebuild. Since then they haven't really done too much in the playoffs either. Anyway, they've had almost a decade on the Preds in terms of building.

Florida was a blue collar expansion team that did well early, but do you really want to change recent history with those guys? They've been in the rebuilding wilderness for years now, and losing lots of games. Not pretty. Anyway, they had a 6 year head start on the Preds.

Colorado's success in their first year is actually the result of almost a decade of building in Quebec, starting with the drafting of Joe Sakic in 1987, the bottom 5 finish in 1988, the last place teams in 1989, 1990, 1991, 1992 and the Lindros trade, so in the grand scheme of things, the championship did not come easy for that particular organization.

Carolina was a terrible organization that had a Cinderella run and fluked its way to the cup. If you want to look at the general health of that franchise, it is as poorly run as any team. Of course their cup is better than none, but on the whole, the Predators have been more successful on the ice and have been progressing towards respectability in a much more linear fashion than Carolina's constant meandering between good and terrible. Plus, the Canes came from Hartford, which had been rebuilding for years before 1997, so again, they had a head start.

Anaheim: like the Sharks and Panthers, they were midly successful early on, but had to rebuild. They've been around much longer than the Preds so any success they have in understandable.

Atlanta's way worse than Nashville. At least Poile gave you guys a good farm system, allowing you to rebound. Honestly, if it weren't for this ownership/move fiasco, the team would be in fantastic shape. You have tons of quality youth and a good young core already on the roster. If you just kept a couple of Kariya, Forsberg, Hartnell around, you'd be contenders again next year. Keep in mind, playoff success isn't easy, especally for a relatively young team. The Sharks have had some growing pains, the Sens have had some problems over the last decade and are still at it. The Penguins will probably also struggle for a few years. You'll be fine.

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06-15-2007, 11:05 AM
  #11
dulzhok
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You are missing the point. This isn't about saying we should have been just as good as the Stars when we started out. The point is post-season success (i.e. winning some playoff rounds) is what generates the most buzz in a new market.

When all these teams started out in their new market (whether relocated or expanded) they at some point, have had some post season buzz to help establish themsevles in a non-traditional market place. Nashville has yet to win a playoff round, and imo, that's the biggest reason for the lack of corporate support.

We are like Tampa right now. They went a long time without winning a playoff round. Ticket sales suffered. The eventually built up a quality team, and won the cup. In turn, ticket sales increased significantly. Corporations WANTED to buy season tickets.

We've suffered throgh the last 9 years of non post season success, and we are on the brink of being able to make some noise. It's foolish for Leipold to say "we've gone all we can do" when you know you haven't accomplished the single most important-- creating post season excitement.

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06-15-2007, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dulzhok View Post
You are missing the point. This isn't about saying we should have been just as good as the Stars when we started out. The point is post-season success (i.e. winning some playoff rounds) is what generates the most buzz in a new market.
The way I see it, you shouldn't be thinking about it as a 9 year drought, because you've only been in the playoffs 2004, 2006 and 2007. 3 years and 3 first round exits isn't that unusual for a young team lacking playoff experience. Plus the team should be generating a good amount of fanfare with its powerhouse regular seasons anyway. And you're not like the Lightning at all. They were terrible for a long, long time. Your team is different. Your point totals have improved by leaps and bounds every season over the past five years and with the exception of one season, your team has gotten better every year. The Preds are in great shape on the ice.

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06-15-2007, 11:14 AM
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The problem remains that someone willing and able to buy the team who also believes the market has to step up for it to mean anything. The reason that that this is Nashville going through this now and not another market is this is the team that is for sale. If Mr. R.I.M fails in his bid with the Preds he will be right back at it with the next team on the block until finally a situation presents itself where there are no other options to the league but to sell and move or fold the team.

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06-15-2007, 12:31 PM
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We've suffered throgh the last 9 years of non post season success, and we are on the brink of being able to make some noise. It's foolish for Leipold to say "we've gone all we can do" when you know you haven't accomplished the single most important-- creating post season excitement.
Given that the team's actually made the playoffs three times in nine years (not bad, given how hard it is to qualify for the postseason in this league), I'm not sure what more can be done. If it takes a golden ticket to the SCF or somesuch for a franchise to make a go of it, said franchise probably won't last long.

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06-15-2007, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
Given that the team's actually made the playoffs three times in nine years (not bad, given how hard it is to qualify for the postseason in this league), I'm not sure what more can be done. If it takes a golden ticket to the SCF or somesuch for a franchise to make a go of it, said franchise probably won't last long.
See, that's the thing. Making the playoffs isn't really that hard. Over half the teams in the NHL do every single season. So over the course of 9 years, it would quite disgraceful to have never qualified for the post season.

In other major sports, most notably the NFL and MLB, a much lower percentage of teams participate in the playoffs. For them, 9 years is still a long time to not make it, but it's at least understandable in those leagues.

That said, I don't think winning one playoff round makes that big an impact. A long playoff run would, but one round is just one round. The NHL's playoffs are much more of a crap shoot than other sports. Upsets happen and regular season success doesn't mean much. The Preds have iced highly competitive teams over the past two seasons and asking for more is probably asking too much.

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06-15-2007, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
Given that the team's actually made the playoffs three times in nine years (not bad, given how hard it is to qualify for the postseason in this league), I'm not sure what more can be done. If it takes a golden ticket to the SCF or somesuch for a franchise to make a go of it, said franchise probably won't last long.
This makes sense. A team cannot be held to the highest standard of winning the cup in its first nine years in order to survive in a market place. Simply, there has to be at least some level of interest that can sustain it through potentially lean years. Not that Nashville's experience has been bad by any stretch. In fact, I think Poile has built this team as a textbook example for an expansion franchise.

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Old
06-15-2007, 03:49 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Little Fury View Post
Given that the team's actually made the playoffs three times in nine years (not bad, given how hard it is to qualify for the postseason in this league), I'm not sure what more can be done. If it takes a golden ticket to the SCF or somesuch for a franchise to make a go of it, said franchise probably won't last long.
I agree with the last post. The NHL probably has the easiest road to the playoffs of any major sport. And nobody is saying that they need a "golden ticket" to the SCF. But lets face it, success in the NHL is measured by playoff performance. The ease of getting into the playoffs makes that so.

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