HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Cap Gurus: Help me out with this.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-18-2007, 05:49 PM
  #1
markzab
Registered User
 
markzab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA.
Country: United States
Posts: 4,368
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to markzab
Cap Gurus: Help me out with this.

Below is the reported breakdown on the Timmonen contract...

year 1: $8 Million
year 2: $8 Million
year 3: $7 Million
year 4: $7 Million
year 5: $5 Million
year 6: $3 Million

Does this mean that if we trade him after his 4th year the team that we trade him to will only have a cap hit of 5m in the 5th year and 3m in the 6th? If so this makes the deal even better because if he does falter by the age of 36 then his cap hit would be low enough (and even lower with a higher cap) that we'd still be able to trade him to a team for a decent return.

Am I onto something here?

markzab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 05:54 PM
  #2
MojoJojo
Registered User
 
MojoJojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
No. cap hit is the average salary. Even if we trade him to another team in the last few years of his contract, that team will only have to pay him the 3 or 5 mil per, but will still be stuck with the entire 6.3 mil cap hit.

Actually that makes trading him to a cash strapped team that doesnt care as much about the cap a real possibility in the last few years of his contract.

MojoJojo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 05:54 PM
  #3
Ice22*
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 50
vCash: 500
No 4.22 to the cap for all 6 years.

Ice22* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 05:56 PM
  #4
PhoenixDog
Flamer for Life !!!
 
PhoenixDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 462
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab View Post
Below is the reported breakdown on the Timmonen contract...

year 1: $8 Million
year 2: $8 Million
year 3: $7 Million
year 4: $7 Million
year 5: $5 Million
year 6: $3 Million

Does this mean that if we trade him after his 4th year the team that we trade him to will only have a cap hit of 5m in the 5th year and 3m in the 6th? If so this makes the deal even better because if he does falter by the age of 36 then his cap hit would be low enough (and even lower with a higher cap) that we'd still be able to trade him to a team for a decent return.

Am I onto something here?

not he cap hit will be the same: the average of all 6 years. so you will pay him $6.3 as a 38 year old regardless of how well he performs or not. that's why it's a risky deal (ala NYI and Dipietro)

PhoenixDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 06:13 PM
  #5
HoverCarle*
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,859
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to HoverCarle*
Quote:
Originally Posted by anybodybutcalgary View Post
not he cap hit will be the same: the average of all 6 years. so you will pay him $6.3 as a 38 year old regardless of how well he performs or not. that's why it's a risky deal (ala NYI and Dipietro)
no we dont pay him 6.3, we pay him 3. his cap hit is 6.3. and he will only be 38 for a few months of his last contract year

HoverCarle* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 06:42 PM
  #6
markzab
Registered User
 
markzab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA.
Country: United States
Posts: 4,368
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to markzab
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice22 View Post
No 4.22 to the cap for all 6 years.
Wrong player.

markzab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 06:44 PM
  #7
markzab
Registered User
 
markzab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA.
Country: United States
Posts: 4,368
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to markzab
Quote:
Originally Posted by MojoJojo View Post
No. cap hit is the average salary. Even if we trade him to another team in the last few years of his contract, that team will only have to pay him the 3 or 5 mil per, but will still be stuck with the entire 6.3 mil cap hit.

Actually that makes trading him to a cash strapped team that doesnt care as much about the cap a real possibility in the last few years of his contract.
I don't understand how that makes sense though for the next team. Obviously for our contract you average the whole salary out over the 6 years and that's how we get the 6.3 hit over 6, but once he is traded wouldn't the league look at the remaining balance of 8m and take that average since it's a new team? I mean, wouldn't that make more sense?

markzab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 06:47 PM
  #8
Dr Love
Registered User
 
Dr Love's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Location, Location!
Posts: 20,378
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab View Post
I don't understand how that makes sense though for the next team. Obviously for our contract you average the whole salary out over the 6 years and that's how we get the 6.3 hit over 6, but once he is traded wouldn't the league look at the remaining balance of 8m and take that average since it's a new team? I mean, wouldn't that make more sense?
One of the reasons that's done is to stop teams from excessively front or backloading a contract.

Dr Love is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 06:51 PM
  #9
markzab
Registered User
 
markzab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA.
Country: United States
Posts: 4,368
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to markzab
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Love View Post
One of the reasons that's done is to stop teams from excessively front or backloading a contract.
Ah, well that makes more sense now. Thanks DL.

markzab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 06:53 PM
  #10
MojoJojo
Registered User
 
MojoJojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markzab View Post
I don't understand how that makes sense though for the next team. Obviously for our contract you average the whole salary out over the 6 years and that's how we get the 6.3 hit over 6, but once he is traded wouldn't the league look at the remaining balance of 8m and take that average since it's a new team? I mean, wouldn't that make more sense?
No, that would be a loophole in the cap if you could do that. I trade you my veteran with a big cap hit, you trade me yours, suddenly we both have a lot more cap room. frontloading still is sneaky though, because he could retire or we could trade him to a team that doesnt care as much about the cap as about the total cost of their payroll.

MojoJojo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 08:28 PM
  #11
Amen evil king
Amen, Evil King
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,403
vCash: 500
Does anyone know if Hartnell's contract is evenly balanced throughout the full term, or ..?

Amen evil king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 08:39 PM
  #12
McNasty
Registered User
 
McNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rutgers
Country: United States
Posts: 5,759
vCash: 500
what about buying him out after 4 years. He would be owed 8 million dollars. So would we be resonsible for 2/3 of that? or 2/3 his cap hit. The former makes sense because otherwise why front load the deal so much.

McNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 09:14 PM
  #13
markzab
Registered User
 
markzab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA.
Country: United States
Posts: 4,368
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to markzab
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
what about buying him out after 4 years. He would be owed 8 million dollars. So would we be resonsible for 2/3 of that? or 2/3 his cap hit. The former makes sense because otherwise why front load the deal so much.
That's an interesting point. Let's look at both scenarios as if we were to buy him out at the end of 4 years...

If it's 2/3 of cap hit it'd be 2/3 of 12.6m = 8.4m buyout.
If it's 2/3 of total remaining on contract it'd be 2/3 of 8m = 5.32m

Obviously the 2nd number looks much better than the 1st number.

If we did buy him out how much of a cap hit would we take in those remaining years?

markzab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 09:43 PM
  #14
McNasty
Registered User
 
McNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rutgers
Country: United States
Posts: 5,759
vCash: 500
I think it would be the 5.32m/4 years 1.08million cap hit. If thats the case thats a real slick move by Holmgren he can shave off 5 mil in cap room by buying him out.

McNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 09:45 PM
  #15
markzab
Registered User
 
markzab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA.
Country: United States
Posts: 4,368
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to markzab
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
I think it would be the 5.32m/4 years 1.08million cap hit. If thats the case thats a real slick move by Holmgren he can shave off 5 mil in cap room by buying him out.
Why 4 years?

markzab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 09:48 PM
  #16
McNasty
Registered User
 
McNasty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rutgers
Country: United States
Posts: 5,759
vCash: 500
im pretty sure when you buyout a players contract the amount your responsible for is 2/3 the remaining amount owed spread out over the remaining years x2. I think Yashins buyout is spread over 8 years and he had 4 remaining.

McNasty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 09:52 PM
  #17
markzab
Registered User
 
markzab's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA.
Country: United States
Posts: 4,368
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to markzab
Well in that case it'd be a great move to buy him out. Obviously we would hope he kept playing well throughout his whole contract or we could trade him, but to only have a small cap hit like that on a buyout is great. I guess that's another MAJOR advantage to frontloading.

markzab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 10:23 PM
  #18
Gags1288
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,355
vCash: 500
The salary is the last season matters for two reasons:
1) As has already been mentioned, if you wanted to trade him to cap strapped team then they could reach the salary floor, for instance, without having to pay the player what his cap hit is.

2) If Timonen's play were to fall off significantly in his final year then the Flyers would be able to waive him (assuming he doesn't retire) and only be on the hook for paying him 3 mil as opposed to 5 or 6.

Gags1288 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2007, 11:30 PM
  #19
#31
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 52
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by McNasty View Post
what about buying him out after 4 years. He would be owed 8 million dollars. So would we be resonsible for 2/3 of that? or 2/3 his cap hit. The former makes sense because otherwise why front load the deal so much.
We wouldn't need to buy him out. B/c he signed the deal before he turned 35, if we waive him and send him to the Phantoms or he retires, his salary does not count against the cap. So, while buying him out might save a little actual $, it would be more costly for cap purposes to buy him out. Knowing Mr. Snider and the Flyers, they would rather pay a little more real $ than take the cap hit.

#31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:35 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.