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Old
06-14-2007, 05:26 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Regardless of his +/- that game, I saw Souray play a good game defensively. (supporting your point)
really? i saw a Souray lost on his own zone. going after the wrong guys on the coverage..2 hand on his stick trying to play the puck, trying to clear the puck by the middle..

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06-14-2007, 05:26 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
I dont know how someone can overestimate the importance of a defensemen who broke the NHL record for most PP goals. Could you explain your position a bit more?
I made it very clear as to how he is overestimated..

First of all...the PP gameplan was..find a way to pass it back to Souray for a shot..so..he was getting a lot of chances and passes from his teamates..just put a guy on Souray and it takes away the shot cuz Souray cant even get open by himself..
2nd..Souray broke the record yes..but before last season..in 8NHL seasons..he wasnt even close to that touch..
3rd of all..Our PP was #1 but we finished 10th...so how is this guy importance's so high??..is it really important to have the #1 PP in the league??..last season is the best proof that it isnt..
4th of all...ya he scored 26 but finished with -28...

So how is this guy so important to us??..
You people make me laugh..practically saying our PP is gonna be deadlast without Souray...
They'll just have to find a new gameplan..if they dont too bad..

For the millionth time..we finished 10th in the east even with the #1 PP...so i dont see why people think the PP is so important

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06-14-2007, 05:32 PM
  #53
SpreeEndaz
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You see, when we used to have 5 good elements for PP, it looked like a bit like this:



Now, the 4 remaining elements look like this:



(Notice how Samsonov spins, and spins, and spins, and spins...)

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06-14-2007, 05:37 PM
  #54
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Souray benifited from having a RH option on the LW with Ryder, one of the top 10 powerplay specialists in Kovalev, a great playmaker in Koivu and an elite PP QB in Markov. The PP was also very simple and well defined, it's been tried and used for years with success. I wouldn't be surprised if Souray doesn't come close to his career totals next year. Let's not forget the Habs had a top 5 PP with only 7 goals from Souray not too long ago. He's definetly not essential.

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06-14-2007, 06:19 PM
  #55
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QUOTE=Ice Poutine;9546043]A bit hard to read but i agree with you! Souray isnt the 'end of it all' - We will stil have a very good PP next year.[/QUOTE]


finally someone sees the light.

What is so hard , Souray and Koivu had career years, Souray looks like Boby Orr on the powerplay, we had a top powerplay all year, basically carried us all year , and guess what , WE STILL CAN`T WIN, MAKE THE PLAYOFFS, OR GO ANYWHERE. *** will happen when Souray at 6 mil goes back to 40 points, and Koivu misses his 20-30 games . It`s like Buffalo , clearly Drury and Briere were over matched physically , so if you can`t win with them *** are they going to overpay to keep both, Drury maybe , but not both.

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06-14-2007, 06:57 PM
  #56
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Sourays' booming shot from the point and his leadership surely will be missed. That said can anyone remeber Souray killing any penalties? I can't, there is a good reason for that. From a +/- stand point, if you are total -28 there is an issue. It means that he was not contibuting offensively during regular 5 on 5 play and not generating any assists or even goals. We all watched afair bit of games and although he can be a physical presence, defensively, he was a liabitly.
The power play will still be o.k (maybe not #1). Our defence will be better though. McCabe was the excact same year before, lots of PP points thenhe gets a heavy duty raise and did not get asmany points on the PP last season and was deffensively irresponsible all season for the Leafs.
Here is hoping the Habs don't make the same mistake the Leafs made, we need to improve our transition game first and foremost.

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06-14-2007, 08:56 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I made it very clear as to how he is overestimated..

First of all...the PP gameplan was..find a way to pass it back to Souray for a shot..so..he was getting a lot of chances and passes from his teamates..just put a guy on Souray and it takes away the shot cuz Souray cant even get open by himself..
2nd..Souray broke the record yes..but before last season..in 8NHL seasons..he wasnt even close to that touch..
3rd of all..Our PP was #1 but we finished 10th...so how is this guy importance's so high??..is it really important to have the #1 PP in the league??..last season is the best proof that it isnt..
4th of all...ya he scored 26 but finished with -28...

So how is this guy so important to us??..
You people make me laugh..practically saying our PP is gonna be deadlast without Souray...
They'll just have to find a new gameplan..if they dont too bad..

For the millionth time..we finished 10th in the east even with the #1 PP...so i dont see why people think the PP is so important
I'll tell ya, your posts are certainly making me bust a gut! It's a riot how you give so little credit to Souray's accomplishments on the PP last season and how you imply his presence won't be missed. And the 'he scored 26 but was a -28' line, it's ludicrous to reduce his on-ice performance with the Habs to this.

Big void to fill with Souray gone, whether you like to think so or not. Even PPGs aside, toughness and leadership lost will be noticeable.

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06-15-2007, 12:57 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyB11 View Post
I'll tell ya, your posts are certainly making me bust a gut! It's a riot how you give so little credit to Souray's accomplishments on the PP last season and how you imply his presence won't be missed. And the 'he scored 26 but was a -28' line, it's ludicrous to reduce his on-ice performance with the Habs to this.

Big void to fill with Souray gone, whether you like to think so or not. Even PPGs aside, toughness and leadership lost will be noticeable.
Lolllllll...see..thats exactly what makes me laugh..
People like you that think Souray is such an important part of the Habs..
Correct me if im wrong but..Souray's position is DEFENCE..is it not??..
so -28 is a very important stat..its no secret he sucks big time in his zone..

Then you talk about toughness??..when's the last time you saw Souray lay someone out or fight??..he doesnt do it anymore
The only time is when Armstrong hit Koivu..other than that..he had no toughness..our tough defenders are Komi and Bouillon(altho Bouillon didnt lay it out last season like b4..maybe its cuz of the knee but wtv he did drop Tucker)..Souray is big..but i doubt anybody is scared of going in the corners or in front of the net when Souray's there

And Leadership?..what kind of leadership does Souray have?..ok..he talks a lot and encourages the team..but after doing that..very often he'll make a turnover or a stupid play or some kind of mistake on the ice..he shows leadership off the ice..thats great..but id prefer another guy like Markov who'll show it on the ice

And btw...what kind of leader exactly has a fight with Kovalev in the dressing room??..

Just because Souray had 1 great season out 8 and out of 5 in mtl only..he's all of a sudden gonna be a huge lost??..was Rivet a huge leadership loss too??..cuz he was just as ''important''..if not more..as Souray was
And what if he had a regular season of not even 40pts again..would you think so highly of him??

So im 100% convinced that Souray's loss will change absolutly nothing..mark my words..and we'll see next season
And many of you seem to think that Souray will be gone and thats it..but Souray will obviously be replaced by someone from the UFA list..i doubt Gainey will keep the defense as it is..especially with him and Carbo proning the Defensive Style

Mark my words..im 100% convinced Souray's loss will be inaffective to the team..You'll see how right i am next season


Last edited by Kriss E: 06-15-2007 at 01:03 AM.
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06-15-2007, 01:46 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Correct me if im wrong but..Souray's position is DEFENCE..is it not??..
so -28 is a very important stat..its no secret he sucks big time in his zone..
Yeah, but hes is better offensively even if hes a defenseman. A foward can be good defensively too. Maltby, Draper are better defensively than offensively.. what the?? They are foward, arent they!?!

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Old
06-15-2007, 02:13 AM
  #60
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Souray was very usefull, the argument that says that we dont need him since #1 PP didnt gave us playoffs is totally dumb. Dont you guys ever think about the fact we wouldn't have been in the playoff race at all without this deadly powerplay. And if it was so easy for Souray because of our "system" i dont see why they couldnt do it by any other defenseman. Souray's slapshot is the best of the league and there are no doubt about that. Last season wasnt luck, he did had another good offensive season before.

I know he is going to be too expensive next year but to say that we wont miss him on the Powerplay is a non sense.


Last edited by jiboy: 06-15-2007 at 02:14 AM. Reason: *** typo
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06-15-2007, 02:18 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Agreed and I have the same question.

Looks to me like a bunch of people are realizing he's most likely gone and trying to convince themselves he won't be missed.

He had a much bigger impact on the PP than his goal totals indicate and from what we heard and saw on the ice he also had an impact in the dressing room.

I wish he'd come back at 4.5M. Would be perfect. People say his defense sucks, and last year I'll readily admit it was worse than ever. But remember against the leafs in that final game, Souray came up big defensively. He's the type of guy who'll raise his play to another level if the stakes are higher or if we pair him with a decent partner.

Souray is getting underated on these boards because of his plus/minus on a terrible team. He's probably not as good offensively as he showed last season and better defensively than what he showed too. Consciously or not, he was probably a bit more concerned about his statistics than usual given the fact it was a contract season and his impending UFA status.
couldn't have said it better myself. excellent post.

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Old
06-15-2007, 02:31 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Lolllllll...see..thats exactly what makes me laugh..
People like you that think Souray is such an important part of the Habs..
Correct me if im wrong but..Souray's position is DEFENCE..is it not??..
so -28 is a very important stat..its no secret he sucks big time in his zone..
Kid, you're gonna have to cut your losses here soon. I wasn't gonna get in on this, but here goes. First of all, suck big time in his own zone? Let's not get retarded. He is weak against top talent one-on-one. His defensive zone coverage is fine. Oh, and judging by the percentage of minutes played by all defensemen on the team, yes, he is important. If he wasn't the coach wouldn't play him as much as he did. If he isn't playing those minutes, then we have Bouillon or Dandybouillon out there. Pick your poison.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Then you talk about toughness??..when's the last time you saw Souray lay someone out or fight??..he doesnt do it anymore

Souray is big..but i doubt anybody is scared of going in the corners or in front of the net when Souray's there
I enjoy the fighting as a measure of toughness. The willingness to step up and fight is more important than who wins the fight. But anyway, on to the corners/front of the net... do you watch the games? Souray does as good of a job as anyone on the team at controlling traffic in front of the net and in the corners. As far as being scared, I don't think anyone in the NHL is actually "scared" of anyone out there.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And Leadership?..what kind of leadership does Souray have?..ok..he talks a lot and encourages the team..but after doing that..very often he'll make a turnover or a stupid play or some kind of mistake on the ice..he shows leadership off the ice..thats great..but id prefer another guy like Markov who'll show it on the ice

And btw...what kind of leader exactly has a fight with Kovalev in the dressing room??..
Since when do mistakes translate into lack of leadership? Talking and encouraging are two of the most important parts of being a leader on a team. Ever play on a COMPETITIVE (i.e. NOT recreational) team ? It's sounding like you never have. The dressing room is where the real leaders get to work; out of the eyes of the media.

Oh, and the answer to the last part: the same kind of leader that would pick a fight with Ribeiro on/off the ice (Koivu... or perhaps this is the first time you've heard of this). The leaders kick the pants of the slackers and guys who step out of line. That's how it goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Just because Souray had 1 great season out 8 and out of 5 in mtl only..he's all of a sudden gonna be a huge lost??..was Rivet a huge leadership loss too??..cuz he was just as ''important''..if not more..as Souray was
And what if he had a regular season of not even 40pts again..would you think so highly of him??
Hmm... one great season, plus one season where he was a leading Norris candidate before getting injured, plus three years as a defensive monster with the Devils. Perhaps you're too young to have watched him then. He used to be known for his defense (as was the system in NJ, but they already had guys like Stevens, so Souray was "expendable"), but was asked to transition to a more offensive game when he came to Montreal. Looking at how quickly he made the transition and how effective he has become, i would categorize his time here as a success.

And yes, Rivet was a big leadership loss. He was, however, also declining physically and Gainey got a good return for him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So im 100% convinced that Souray's loss will change absolutly nothing..mark my words..and we'll see next season
And many of you seem to think that Souray will be gone and thats it..but Souray will obviously be replaced by someone from the UFA list..i doubt Gainey will keep the defense as it is..especially with him and Carbo proning the Defensive Style

Mark my words..im 100% convinced Souray's loss will be inaffective to the team..You'll see how right i am next season
Well there it is. You're convinced. I'm convinced that peanut butter and cheddar cheese sandwiches taste better than peanut butter and jam. I'm also convinced that you recently started watching hockey, or atleast recently started to watch enough to form opinions about what you see.

In any event, how will we measure his affect on the team? If the team goals against go down, I will attribute that to having Huet and Halak instead of Huet and Aebischer. If the powerplay points go up, I will be very surprised. As for 5-on-5, I think you'll see the forwards (especially those who were rookies or sophmores) being more effective in the defensive zone, and that will translate into better numbers regardless of whether Souray is there or not.

Oh, and "obviously replaced by a UFA." We should call you Krisstal Ball E. Granted, we all hope so, and we hope it's a good one... but in Montreal nothing is easy or "obvious." And finally, I don't have a reply to your "proning" comment. I've never seen "prone" used as a verb.

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06-15-2007, 01:40 PM
  #63
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Great post Ohashi, but I think Chrissy is a lost cause. No logical arguments will be accepted, but that's OK as Chrissy is not the GM.

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06-15-2007, 08:32 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Kid, you're gonna have to cut your losses here soon. I wasn't gonna get in on this, but here goes. First of all, suck big time in his own zone? Let's not get retarded. He is weak against top talent one-on-one. His defensive zone coverage is fine. Oh, and judging by the percentage of minutes played by all defensemen on the team, yes, he is important. If he wasn't the coach wouldn't play him as much as he did. If he isn't playing those minutes, then we have Bouillon or Dandybouillon out there. Pick your poison.



I enjoy the fighting as a measure of toughness. The willingness to step up and fight is more important than who wins the fight. But anyway, on to the corners/front of the net... do you watch the games? Souray does as good of a job as anyone on the team at controlling traffic in front of the net and in the corners. As far as being scared, I don't think anyone in the NHL is actually "scared" of anyone out there.



Since when do mistakes translate into lack of leadership? Talking and encouraging are two of the most important parts of being a leader on a team. Ever play on a COMPETITIVE (i.e. NOT recreational) team ? It's sounding like you never have. The dressing room is where the real leaders get to work; out of the eyes of the media.

Oh, and the answer to the last part: the same kind of leader that would pick a fight with Ribeiro on/off the ice (Koivu... or perhaps this is the first time you've heard of this). The leaders kick the pants of the slackers and guys who step out of line. That's how it goes.



Hmm... one great season, plus one season where he was a leading Norris candidate before getting injured, plus three years as a defensive monster with the Devils. Perhaps you're too young to have watched him then. He used to be known for his defense (as was the system in NJ, but they already had guys like Stevens, so Souray was "expendable"), but was asked to transition to a more offensive game when he came to Montreal. Looking at how quickly he made the transition and how effective he has become, i would categorize his time here as a success.

And yes, Rivet was a big leadership loss. He was, however, also declining physically and Gainey got a good return for him.



Well there it is. You're convinced. I'm convinced that peanut butter and cheddar cheese sandwiches taste better than peanut butter and jam. I'm also convinced that you recently started watching hockey, or atleast recently started to watch enough to form opinions about what you see.

In any event, how will we measure his affect on the team? If the team goals against go down, I will attribute that to having Huet and Halak instead of Huet and Aebischer. If the powerplay points go up, I will be very surprised. As for 5-on-5, I think you'll see the forwards (especially those who were rookies or sophmores) being more effective in the defensive zone, and that will translate into better numbers regardless of whether Souray is there or not.

Oh, and "obviously replaced by a UFA." We should call you Krisstal Ball E. Granted, we all hope so, and we hope it's a good one... but in Montreal nothing is easy or "obvious." And finally, I don't have a reply to your "proning" comment. I've never seen "prone" used as a verb.


I love how you start off by calling me kid...way to go..ive been watching hockey since Lanny Macdonald raised the cup..so thats almost 20years ago..
So to start off..you agree he's weak against Top talent..so..i dont know why you even start to argue...
I dont care if he can take the puck away from Turner Stevenson or any 3rd liner..pretty much anybody else could but most of the time he's getting matched up vs the 2nd line of other teams and gets schooled..
and i prefer having Bouillon then Souray in my zone any day..

And you didnt understand much of what i said...i didnt say Souray's encouragement or talk isnt important..i said id prefer to have a guy like Markov that shows leadership from how he plays..than somebody that can talk...
Its much easier to replace a guy like Souray..who only talks but doesnt have much other than his PP shot

Again you mishandle my views..maybe you agree with fights in dressing rooms..but i find them quite ridiculous..it doesnt show much team spirit..but apparently to you it does..
Name me one team that won a cup or went far in the Playoffs where you had an incident of a fight in a practice or in dressing room?..
And apparently its okay for Souray that plays defense..but is horrible in his zone to critize another veteran that has a bad season just cuz he's racking up PP points..
I find it very hypocritical..how can you critize someone when you're not doing that good of a job either??..

As for the other season where he was a ''candidate'' for the Norris trophy..BTW lollllllllllll at that!..
I can say that Carbo was up for nomination for the Jack Adams trophy this year..up until Xmas...
In other words..you never know what would have happen..so its easy to say this and that

Its funny how you try to attack me by saying im young and just started to watch hockey..is that necessary to try to make your points more valid buddy??..

if Souray was that good in NJ they would have kept him..and you're wrong if you think Mtl brought him bcuz they thought he would be a great fit in an offensive system
he had 1 good season POINTS WISE out of 5...maybe you're satisfied with his Defensive skills..but i played hockey for 11years and i was a defender myself..and there's stuff he falls for that you learn not to do in Peewee hockey

And did you end your post by saying if the GA drop next year..it will be because we have better goalies?..you think the defense had nothing to do with that??..and you DARE to say i dont know about hockey???????....wow...you really proved your point there buddy!!

Let me end by saying..you can diss my post all you want..you can say im wrong..you can act like a young kid by saying i know nothing..but bottom line...If Souray was THAT great and THAT important to the team as you make him up to be..Gainey would have given him the big contract..
Simple..but no..Gainey is gonna let Souray go..i wonder why that is..
Ya..its probably cuz he's a great leader..an irreplacable defender and the most important part of our PP...riiiiiiiiight

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06-15-2007, 08:41 PM
  #65
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Wow.. so many words in one post! Ok, both of you: in your corners and come out at the sound of the bell!

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06-15-2007, 08:51 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I love how you start off by calling me kid...way to go..ive been watching hockey since Lanny Macdonald raised the cup..so thats almost 20years ago..
So to start off..you agree he's weak against Top talent..so..i dont know why you even start to argue...
I dont care if he can take the puck away from Turner Stevenson or any 3rd liner..pretty much anybody else could but most of the time he's getting matched up vs the 2nd line of other teams and gets schooled..
and i prefer having Bouillon then Souray in my zone any day..

And you didnt understand much of what i said...i didnt say Souray's encouragement or talk isnt important..i said id prefer to have a guy like Markov that shows leadership from how he plays..than somebody that can talk...
Its much easier to replace a guy like Souray..who only talks but doesnt have much other than his PP shot

Again you mishandle my views..maybe you agree with fights in dressing rooms..but i find them quite ridiculous..it doesnt show much team spirit..but apparently to you it does..
Name me one team that won a cup or went far in the Playoffs where you had an incident of a fight in a practice or in dressing room?..
And apparently its okay for Souray that plays defense..but is horrible in his zone to critize another veteran that has a bad season just cuz he's racking up PP points..
I find it very hypocritical..how can you critize someone when you're not doing that good of a job either??..

As for the other season where he was a ''candidate'' for the Norris trophy..BTW lollllllllllll at that!..
I can say that Carbo was up for nomination for the Jack Adams trophy this year..up until Xmas...
In other words..you never know what would have happen..so its easy to say this and that

Its funny how you try to attack me by saying im young and just started to watch hockey..is that necessary to try to make your points more valid buddy??..

if Souray was that good in NJ they would have kept him..and you're wrong if you think Mtl brought him bcuz they thought he would be a great fit in an offensive system
he had 1 good season POINTS WISE out of 5...maybe you're satisfied with his Defensive skills..but i played hockey for 11years and i was a defender myself..and there's stuff he falls for that you learn not to do in Peewee hockey

And did you end your post by saying if the GA drop next year..it will be because we have better goalies?..you think the defense had nothing to do with that??..and you DARE to say i dont know about hockey???????....wow...you really proved your point there buddy!!

Let me end by saying..you can diss my post all you want..you can say im wrong..you can act like a young kid by saying i know nothing..but bottom line...If Souray was THAT great and THAT important to the team as you make him up to be..Gainey would have given him the big contract..
Simple..but no..Gainey is gonna let Souray go..i wonder why that is..
Ya..its probably cuz he's a great leader..an irreplacable defender and the most important part of our PP...riiiiiiiiight

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06-18-2007, 10:48 PM
  #67
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Wow. Just got back of a little vaca, and found this. Man I love Monday..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I love how you start off by calling me kid...way to go..ive been watching hockey since Lanny Macdonald raised the cup..so thats almost 20years ago..
Wow. That's almost as long as I have...

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
So to start off..you agree he's weak against Top talent..so..i dont know why you even start to argue...
Hmm.. believe I said one-on-one, i.e. on breaks starting from the neutral zone. Those same guys generally don't get the best of Souray in front or in the corners. Oh, and Top Talent to me equals all those guys making 5 mil or above. I checked... it's a very low percentage of the players in the league. Compounding that with the RELATIVELY low occurance of such plays by such players game-to-game, I let the "deficiency" slide a bit.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
and i prefer having Bouillon then Souray in my zone any day..
This requires no response, only highlighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And you didnt understand much of what i said...

Its much easier to replace a guy like Souray..who only talks but doesnt have much other than his PP shot
Nope. Understood you loud and clear. You were just a little narrow-minded, so I shared an opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Again you mishandle my views..maybe you agree with fights in dressing rooms..but i find them quite ridiculous..it doesnt show much team spirit..but apparently to you it does..
Name me one team that won a cup or went far in the Playoffs where you had an incident of a fight in a practice or in dressing room?..
Wow, I didn't know that all teams report every disagreement in the dressing rooms. If you can show me the list of all teams' conflicts in the dressing rooms and some stats, I will find you one that won the Stanley Cup. I didn't mishandle your views. I believe that the players are all accountable to each other, and if someone isn't pulling weight and it is a detriment to the team, the leaders vocalize it, and sometimes it gets heated. You are naive to think this isn't a regular occurrence. Of course, in Montreal a lot more of these are excavated somehow by the media and scrutinized by the legions of fans, thus more public. Yes, I think it shows team spirit and willingness to maintain accountability. I don't necessarily condone fist-fights however, but i understand how it can happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
As for the other season where he was a ''candidate'' for the Norris trophy..BTW lollllllllllll at that!..
I can say that Carbo was up for nomination for the Jack Adams trophy this year..up until Xmas...
This one is brilliant. What's the difference you ask? How about the fact that Souray became injured and couldn't continue to contend for the prize until the end of the season. And yes, everyone - EVERYONE was using Norris and Souray in the same sentence up to the injury. Carbs was the coach the whole year and was thus accountable for his performance over that time. If that's too hard to understand, well, can't help ya.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Its funny how you try to attack me by saying im young and just started to watch hockey..is that necessary to try to make your points more valid buddy??..
Well, actually I said that I was convinced you were young based on the content of your argument. My opinion hasn't changed, regardless of what the facts may be. The brain and the physical body do, of course, age differently...

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
if Souray was that good in NJ they would have kept him..and you're wrong if you think Mtl brought him bcuz they thought he would be a great fit in an offensive system
Well there's a good argument. I mean, no one trades good players, right? Come on now. Teams trade things that they already have for something they need. Like I said (but perhaps you missed), Stevens et al already formed a solid defensive core. Souray was superfluous, not a poor player.

And I said he made the transition to an offensive role, not that he was brought in as an offensive weapon. Try out some reading comprehension SAT problems to get the rust out.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
he had 1 good season POINTS WISE out of 5...maybe you're satisfied with his Defensive skills..but i played hockey for 11years and i was a defender myself..and there's stuff he falls for that you learn not to do in Peewee hockey
Wow. You learned all those things, and apparently Souray didn't?! Your slapshot must suck if Souray made the NHL and you didn't...

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
And did you end your post by saying if the GA drop next year..it will be because we have better goalies?
Actually, my major point was about young forwards becoming more defensively aware and able to execute a defensive zone scheme, but yes. I also highlighted that Halak is better than Aebischer. I can't believe you would argue against that. Just goes to show.

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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If Souray was THAT great and THAT important to the team as you make him up to be..Gainey would have given him the big contract..
Simple..but no..Gainey is gonna let Souray go..i wonder why that is..
Ya..its probably cuz he's a great leader..an irreplacable defender and the most important part of our PP...riiiiiiiiight
Actually, let me kill the suspense for you. The answer is economics. Why didn't Edmonton hang on to Pronger. Oh wait, by your logic, Craig Mac and the boys obviously think Pronger is a bad defenseman. Wow. Egg on their face.... and poo on yours.

Peace. I'm out.

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Old
06-18-2007, 11:20 PM
  #68
LesHabsRock
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I do. If you keep the #1 PP in the league you don't need to be "awesome" at 5-on-5 (which won't happen), just "good".
Unlike most Hab fans on here I believe the Habs 5 on 5 play improved dramatically in the last quarter of the season with the emergence of their newly discovered second line of Pleks/Kost/Higgs. Once they came through and started scoring it took pressure off of the Koivu line and they made a good run and came within a period of making the playoffs.

The Samsonov experiment delayed the development of any secondary scoring unit IMO. And it was discovered too late in the season or they would've made the playoffs. 5 on 5 play will be fine. I agree with you, inthat, if our PP falls then we'll have to be that much better 5 on 5. I say, let's keep our PP intact (top 5 in the league) and show em what our young emerging stars will do. I'm convinced you'll see great things from Higgins, Plekanec and Kostitsyn next season. I certainly can't wait.

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06-19-2007, 09:35 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by VanNistelrooy View Post
I was wondering if Kovalev would be a great fit with Markov at the blue line. He can move the puck well, get the play installed in the zone, and can be really creative as well. With Ryder, Koivu and Higgins upfront, I think this PP would be very effective.

Well first off, our powerplay will be fine without Souray....I'm not too worried about it.
Secondly, I think Kovalev could be very useful on the blueline for the powerplay, he has a good hard shot he just needs to hit the net with it.
If Kovalev doesn't work out on the PP on the point, give Komisarek a try. He has a good hard shot and he is right handed too. He scored some powerplay goals when he played in the minors and had some offensive years down there.

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Old
06-19-2007, 10:21 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by SpreeEndaz View Post
Kostitsyn too could do well on the blueline during PP with his great slapshot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Maybe Kots can play the point? Like Bernie did.
From what I have seen over the past 2 years of watching him in Hamilton, he can play the point, but tends to be more dangerous playing the same role Kovalev does on the right half boards. From there he can take the puck down low or back to the point, make short or cross ice passes and shoot.

This year, he developed a variation on the 'Kovalev PP move' with Grabovski. Kost would get the puck on the half boards and move back towards the point and in towards the middle. He would then fake a shot or a pass across the ice and make a pass down into the corner on the right side for Grabovski (either close to the corner or by the side of the net). From there, Grabs would very quickly put a pass to the front of the net and Milroy and Ferland benefitted from that, both being right handers. AK also worked a similar play with Jancevski, only when he moves towards the middle and winds up, he would thread a pass through the entire PK to the back door when Janc would have a tap in most of the time. I'd like to see him try these moves in Montreal, especially the 'Janc' play if Souray stays around. He sometimes likes to join the rush and on the PP, everyone expects him to be at the point. Making a rush for the net could work out nicely for him every now and again.

As for Kostitsyn playing the point, he has been more inconsistant in that role than on the half boards over the past 2 years, although when the PP was failing, Lever did sometimes try to re-ignite it by putting Kost back there. It sometimes worked, but not as much as you'd want. As good as AK's shot is, it still needs work, especially if people are going to look to set him up for a one timer. Sometimes his shots were very good, they were hard and accurate and caused some problems, although I don't recall him scoring from the point with a one timer (I do recall him wiring a wrist shot from the point past one goalie in the 05-06 season though). But on several occassions, he was moved off the point because:
A - he didn't have the confidence to shoot. He would look to pass way too often. He seemed to get over this issue after a while though. Or...
B - his shot was just too eratic and missed the net more than it was on target...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoHabs20 View Post
nobody will be able to replace SOURAY's hard and accurate shot. Habs PP will suffer.

Don't think Kosts should play the point at all.
...I think it will be too much to expect Kost to succeed from the point right away (if he gets played there), but if given the chance to work on it, he could become successful in that role. So while replacing Sourays shot (barring a new aquisition or Kovalev finding his scoring touch again) may not be possible right away, it is something he could work on and develop and maybe one day be capable of. After all, Souray never used to be a major threat on the PP but he focused on it and worked at it and has become the a danger for any PK unit that faces him. No reason to think Kostitsyn couldn't do the same if given time and practice. I'm not sure how the 2 of them stack up in terms of shot speed on one timers, but from shooting a stationary puck, Kostitsyn is very close to the speed Souray can hit. Of course, there is still the accuracy issue (which is a huge factor) but as mentioned, it can be worked on.

What Kostitsyn did do nicely when playing the point though (and was mainly consistant at) was bringing the puck up the ice. He made the occassional mistake, but not often. It's likely not a problem the Habs will face, but at times the Dogs had real difficulty bringing the puck forward. Sometimes the solution was as simple as just putting Kostitsyn on the ice and letting him win the puck deep in his own zone and take it from there. He could protect the puck well, make good passes or gain the zone himself (not sure dumping the puck was his favourite approach though)

Overall though, I hope to see Souray back next year and his skills on the PP are a big part of the reason why (along with his leadership and the way he sticks up for teammates). I only hope (likely in vain) that it won't brake the bank to bring him back though. And for anyone expecting Kostitsyn to just step into that role and take it over, chances are you'd best think again.

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Old
06-19-2007, 10:23 AM
  #71
Boris Le Tigre
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no forwards on the point on the powerplay... EVER

especially those of the non-backchecking, feet stuck in cement variety.

sign a defenceman to play the point... there's no better feeling in the world when you're streaking down the ice one on one and look up to realize this fool is a forward... he's toast.

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06-19-2007, 01:58 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boris La Tigre View Post
no forwards on the point on the powerplay... EVER

especially those of the non-backchecking, feet stuck in cement variety.

sign a defenceman to play the point... there's no better feeling in the world when you're streaking down the ice one on one and look up to realize this fool is a forward... he's toast.

So your saying we don't want someone back there who is useless defensively like Souray was???????

All Souray had was a shot. He can't/won't hit anymore, he will go after a guy if he needs to but won't drop the gloves and square off anymore, he can't pass or stick handle and he can't skate.

So why would it be any worse to have Kovalev back there as opposed to Souray??

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Old
06-19-2007, 02:53 PM
  #73
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People always use the +/- stat to justify that Souray is awful defensively. In the last 3 years, Koivu played an average of 74 games (18,5 TOI) and Souray played an average of 73 games (22,8 TOI).

Koivu +/- : -5, +1, -21

Souray +/- : +4. -11, -28

Last year was basically a defensive nightmare for the whole team. While he is not recognized for his defensive abilities, Souray is still logging a lot of ice-time against the opponents' top lines. Losing him via free agency would certainly not make us a better team. It will be really interesting to see what Gainey will do. Right now I feel we have Markov, Komisarek...and the rest.

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Old
06-19-2007, 04:20 PM
  #74
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the BIG CANNON gone, no problemo

I really am not worried about the production of our PP nest season. Streit and Markov have great shots(obviously not nearly as intimidating and powerful as Souray's), and I am confident that a new plan will develop suiting our future stlye, and will be created depending on our roster at the beginning of the upcoming season.
I would have liked to keep Souray's blistering shot in our PP, but I think that this will allow our players to become more passing minded and will force them to move the puck more and create chances together, seeing as they won't be able to depend on the blast behind them anymore, and constantly set one player up. I also think this new technique of intense passing and playmaking will create some more chemistry between players, which ultimately could very possibly make a more productive and efficient PP, and even their game as a whole.

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Old
06-19-2007, 04:55 PM
  #75
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People seriously need to get off Souray's back about his -28 and his being a "defensive liability". Most of you are basing his defensive lapses solely on that highlight reel goal where Spezza got past him and put one over Theodore's glove. God only knows how many times I've seen Chara get beat like that this season, yet everyone still considers him "elite" and worth $7.5M/season.

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