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Who are your top 5 at pick 17?

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Old
06-19-2007, 03:10 PM
  #26
DarthSather99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundqvist=Vezina View Post
For everyone who wants Esposito, watch his scouting video and then tell me you still want him.

http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app/?service=...HLPage&id=9899
most of those videos are uneventful. One thing scouts don't question, in regards to Esposito, are his offensive skills.

Weaknesses are that he is soft, lazy in the D zone. In this video I must say I was quite impressed with his play in the defensive zone. He laid a few good hits on some players and 80% of that video he was in the defensive zone.

I am actually more impressed with him after watching that video than before watching it. It makes me feel better about his "reported" weaknesses.

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06-19-2007, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleandshoot View Post
Esposito

No way a guy drops that far of the radar without some tangible reasons. Kids got some skills

If he's still available you grab him and let the Pack make a man out of him
There are PLENTY of tangible reasons for him to drop.
  • His play dropped off SIGNIFICANTLY without Radulov.
  • He couldn't lead his team in his draft year.
  • He had a reportedly horrible combine.
  • Failed to make the U20 team and had about as bad a U20 camp as he could have had.
  • Showed no real ability to handle the play when he is the main target and really folded under most of the pressure thrown on him.

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06-19-2007, 03:16 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
most of those videos are uneventful. One thing scouts don't question, in regards to Esposito, are his offensive skills.

Weaknesses are that he is soft, lazy in the D zone. In this video I must say I was quite impressed with his play in the defensive zone. He laid a few good hits on some players and 80% of that video he was in the defensive zone.

I am actually more impressed with him after watching that video than before watching it. It makes me feel better about his "reported" weaknesses.
That's completely untrue. He's yet to prove to a single person that he can produce being "the man" and without the help of others padding his stats.

His offensive ceiling is a HUGE question mark right now.

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06-19-2007, 03:16 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
What has Sutter shown to warrant a top 20 selection?
McKenzie has Sutter ranked 9th overall. I know this is not definitive but McKenzie's list is generally the closest thing out there.

THN has him at 10th overall. Mckeen's has him at 24 and ISS at 30. All I am saying is that it appears Sutter will be a top 20 pick, although with this draft and these disparate rankings, who knows. But, you may have seen him play a ton and think he is not worth it, who knows.

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06-19-2007, 03:18 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bill View Post
McKenzie has Sutter ranked 9th overall. I know this is not definitive but McKenzie's list is generally the closest thing out there.

THN has him at 10th overall. Mckeen's has him at 24 and ISS at 30. All I am saying is that it appears Sutter will be a top 20 pick. But, you may have seen him play a ton and think he is not worth it, who knows.
THN and TSN are usually around the same in their ranking positions for the most part and I think that they are WAAYYYY too high on some guys and let some guys ride the hype (like the case with Sutter) all year and without a real slip in the rankings.

I was pretty high on Sutter and in the camp that said, "his offense will develop later in the year".

And it never really did, which really raises some huge questions.

Right now he looks like a potential bottom 6 forward.

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06-19-2007, 03:20 PM
  #31
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My hope is that Eller or Backlund is still available at that point, but Eller's stock seems to go up and up every day, and Backlund seems likely to go before we pick as well.

If Esposito is still available at 17, you have to take him. He could be a bust, but the upside is tremendous.

Id rather not see us take a defenseman. I'd rather us take a risk on a forward with good potential than a solid d-man. We have good defense in the system, we need to find some offensive firepower to compliment it.

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06-19-2007, 03:37 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
THN and TSN are usually around the same in their ranking positions for the most part and I think that they are WAAYYYY too high on some guys and let some guys ride the hype (like the case with Sutter) all year and without a real slip in the rankings.
TSN doesn't "let" anyone do anything. their rankings are a consensus of the scouts they talked to, and not the TSN staff's opinions.

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Old
06-19-2007, 03:39 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
TSN doesn't "let" anyone do anything. their rankings are a consensus of the scouts they talked to, and not the TSN staff's opinions.
Then their scouts are "letting" him ride on the hype.

Word it any way you like, Sutter doesn't belong where he is.

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06-19-2007, 03:39 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
There are PLENTY of tangible reasons for him to drop.
  • His play dropped off SIGNIFICANTLY without Radulov.
  • He couldn't lead his team in his draft year.
  • He had a reportedly horrible combine.
  • Failed to make the U20 team and had about as bad a U20 camp as he could have had.
  • Showed no real ability to handle the play when he is the main target and really folded under most of the pressure thrown on him.
there are players that just have bad years during their draft year. Look at Frolik last year. He is considered a top prospect right now, fell out of the top 10. He had the skills (ie hands, skating, instincts) but just had a bad year.

Esposito didn't score much but he's still got the skills (ie skating, hands, instincts) to be a good player.

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06-19-2007, 03:41 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thordic View Post
My hope is that Eller or Backlund is still available at that point, but Eller's stock seems to go up and up every day, and Backlund seems likely to go before we pick as well.

If Esposito is still available at 17, you have to take him. He could be a bust, but the upside is tremendous.

Id rather not see us take a defenseman. I'd rather us take a risk on a forward with good potential than a solid d-man. We have good defense in the system, we need to find some offensive firepower to compliment it.
Again, still waiting for someone to prove that point.

So far, no one has.

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06-19-2007, 03:43 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
Again, still waiting for someone to prove that point.

So far, no one has.
I thought my point and example was excellent.

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06-19-2007, 03:44 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
there are players that just have bad years during their draft year. Look at Frolik last year. He is considered a top prospect right now, fell out of the top 10. He had the skills (ie hands, skating, instincts) but just had a bad year.

Esposito didn't score much but he's still got the skills (ie skating, hands, instincts) to be a good player.
First off, Frolik is straight up a better player than Espo is. He does nearly everything better than Espo. Let's get that out of the way right now.

And considered a "top" prospect? He cracked the list at #43 on the HF top 50 and I hardly consider him to be a "top" prospect in hockey. He had a decent year this year but nothing outstanding. In fact, he was relatively quiet for most of the year.

But he shares the hype that Espo has/had and is still riding it.

We'll see Espo doing the same thing for some time until he either makes it or busts.

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06-19-2007, 03:45 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
I thought my point and example was excellent.
Not at all. Far from it.

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06-19-2007, 03:51 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
Then their scouts are "letting" him ride on the hype.

Word it any way you like, Sutter doesn't belong where he is.
well, it's not their scouts, it's NHL team's scouts

and I'm done nitpicking.

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06-19-2007, 03:51 PM
  #40
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I've said before and I'll say it again, if the Rangers draft Esposito I will throw up.

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Old
06-19-2007, 03:52 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
well, it's not their scouts, it's NHL team's scouts

and I'm done nitpicking.
When I said "their scouts" that's who I meant. I figured that was pretty clear. And yes, you are nitpicking a lot here.

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06-19-2007, 03:55 PM
  #42
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1) Eller
2) Petrecki
3) Hjalmarsson
4) Backlund
5) Mayarov

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06-19-2007, 03:56 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich View Post
1) Eller
2) Petrecki
3) Hjalmarsson
4) Backlund
5) Mayarov
Pretty much my exact list...

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06-19-2007, 03:58 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nich View Post
1) Eller
2) Petrecki
3) Hjalmarsson
4) Backlund
5) Mayarov
Just change Backlund and Petrecki and thats my list

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06-19-2007, 04:03 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
First off, Frolik is straight up a better player than Espo is. He does nearly everything better than Espo. Let's get that out of the way right now.

And considered a "top" prospect? He cracked the list at #43 on the HF top 50 and I hardly consider him to be a "top" prospect in hockey. He had a decent year this year but nothing outstanding. In fact, he was relatively quiet for most of the year.

But he shares the hype that Espo has/had and is still riding it.

We'll see Espo doing the same thing for some time until he either makes it or busts.
No offense to the people here but I don't consider HF the defacto standard for judging talent. Looking at their rankings from past history proves that they tend to be off except on the most obvious cases.

McKenzie pretty much calls the draft before the teams make their picks on draft day. He's got great connections and I trust NHL scouts have Espo top 10 because of his skills (not production).

Frolik IS considered a top talent based on his skill set. He's a great stickhandler, got good speed, size and hands. Looking at stats proves nothing. He was drafted 10th overall based on his skillset, not his production. If he had produced he would have challenged for #1 overall. The Rangers were actually trying to trade up to get him. I guarantee you that Florida would not trade Frolik for most of the people HF rates higher.

Esposito and Frolik were rated highly coming into their draft year based on their skillset. They both had bad years production wise, this is where they are similar. Frolik is a better talent in a better draft. This draft is MUCH different. Both players fell out of top 2 because of bad production but WILL still be top 20 based on their potential (skills)

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06-19-2007, 04:10 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Rx View Post
What has Sutter shown to warrant a top 20 selection?

Sup John?

Everyone here is drinking kool-aid on all these prospects. Hey im even guilty of it at times. This years draft is weak. None of the "top" prospects are going to the Rangers. Theres talk the Rangers might even deal the pick. I would rather them focus on next 2 years' drafts because they are touted as being better.

But getting to what you asked... Nothing that would stand out really. I just think its a safe pick because he's got very good hockey sense and comes from a very good hockey family. Simple as that.

Such a weak draft and such a possibility of all these other players being busts that i'd go for the safest bet IMO. He may not be a great player but if you can get him at 17 i would take him because your guaranteed some of those intangables any Sutter would have.

If its just as easy as looking at the board and saying "Hey, is that Sutter related to the Sutter brothers?" - than so be it. It might not be a deep, over analyzed interpretation - but thats what i would do. Most probably would disagree - but at least I have a firm reason.


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06-19-2007, 04:12 PM
  #47
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IMO Petrecki doesn't go past Colorado. To get him we'll have to move up. I think there is a chance that Esposito, Eller or Backlund may be around. McDonagh is a long shot. Top 15 that I have are Kane, Van Riemsdyk, Turris, Voracek, Cherepanov, Alzner, Gagner, Ellerby, Eller, Couture, Hamill, McDonagh, Backlund, Esposito, Petrecki. Possibility to fall as far as 17 of that group would be Backlund, Eller or Esposito. If not looking at who's left depending on who Anaheim picks at 16 the likes of Sweatt, Mayorov, Shattenkirk, Pacioretty. Got the McKeen's today they are also high on Patrick White and MacMillan. Interesting they say that Shattenkirk doesn't like to backskate!!?! From the medical examinations we see that Eller's had a left shoulder injury--will resolve. Espositio's had 2 concussions. Gagner's had a right shoulder injury--will resolve. Perron--a right shoulder injury. Shattenkirk--a heart murmur. Sweatt--severed tendons--right forearm and White mid-back vertebral compressions.

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06-19-2007, 04:16 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
No offense to the people here but I don't consider HF the defacto standard for judging talent. Looking at their rankings from past history proves that they tend to be off except on the most obvious cases.

McKenzie pretty much calls the draft before the teams make their picks on draft day. He's got great connections and I trust NHL scouts have Espo top 10 because of his skills (not production).

Frolik IS considered a top talent based on his skill set. He's a great stickhandler, got good speed, size and hands. Looking at stats proves nothing. He was drafted 10th overall based on his skillset, not his production. If he had produced he would have challenged for #1 overall. The Rangers were actually trying to trade up to get him. I guarantee you that Florida would not trade Frolik for most of the people HF rates higher.

Esposito and Frolik were rated highly coming into their draft year based on their skillset. They both had bad years production wise, this is where they are similar. Frolik is a better talent in a better draft. This draft is MUCH different. Both players fell out of top 2 because of bad production but WILL still be top 20 based on their potential (skills)
While looking at stats proves nothing, I have to mention them as they are very poor. I watched Frolik play about 10-15 times this year given the online broadcasts of a ton of CHL games. Watching him with my own eyes has shown me that he's not a top prospect in my own opinion. I reference stats because they are fairly easy to show to others who might not have seen him that much and are a good way to talk about a player.

You have to watch Espo if you think he has these all world skills that you claim he has. He simply doesn't. Again, I saw him a lot this year because of a lot of the online streams that have been going on this year and he is just not that good. He's got an OK skill set but HARDLY HARDLY anything elite and time and time again he's shown that he is NOT an elite level prospect -- and not a prospect you take in the top 10 of the draft.

You say that both will be drafted top 20 because of skill, I say they will because of hype.

Espo has been hyped for 2-3 years now. VERY hyped.

Frolik was called the "next Jagr" a while back.

That type of hype does NOT wear off for a long, long time and I don't think you're taking that into account here.

I gave many FACTUAL reasons for Espo's demise in this draft year. You and everyone else have given nothing but OPINIONATED reasons. Almost everything that I said about him in the mini list I wrote above is a complete fact or has been substantiated elsewhere besides me.

I've yet to see anyone give anything factual outside of their own opinion as to why Espo is going to be some elite player. What has he done to prove it?

Again, he failed to make the U20s and by almost every report he put up an awful showing. He had a crappy combine. His stats dropped A LOT after a great player left his team -- which leads most to believe that he failed to step up.

Give me some factual and proven things that show you that Espo is an elite prospect. I, unfortunately, don't think you'll be finding many.

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06-19-2007, 04:27 PM
  #49
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06-19-2007, 04:30 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Sup John?

Everyone here is drinking kool-aid on all these prospects. Hey im even guilty of it at times. This years draft is weak. None of the "top" prospects are going to the Rangers. Theres talk the Rangers might even deal the pick. I would rather them focus on next 2 years' drafts because they are touted as being better.

But getting to what you asked... Nothing that would stand out really. I just think its a safe pick because he's got very good hockey sense and comes from a very good hockey family. Simple as that.

Such a weak draft and such a possibility of all these other players being busts that i'd go for the safest bet IMO. He may not be a great player but if you can get him at 17 i would take him because your guaranteed some of those intangables any Sutter would have.

If its just as easy as looking at the board and saying "Hey, is that Sutter related to the Sutter brothers?" - than so be it. It might not be a deep, over analyzed interpretation - but thats what i would do. Most probably would disagree - but at least I have a firm reason.
For the record, I wouldn't be TOO adverse if they selected Sutter and I don't think that he's a HORRIBLE selection, but really he hasn't done anything to warrant such a high choice and he'd be a huge gamble.

But I'd much rather take it with him rather than with Esposito. At least Sutter has blood lines...

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