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Hartnell & Timonen off to the Flyers

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Old
06-19-2007, 05:38 AM
  #76
shidoshi
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at those salaries i don't think the Pred would re-sign them anyway, so good on you for getting a first rounder instead of waiting two weeks and getting nothing. unfortunately it does make the Forsberg trade look that much more lopsided....unless you resign Forsberg with the money saved???? hmmm. (sorry, still lopsided).

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06-19-2007, 06:33 AM
  #77
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If he stops Crosby and Parise and helps our young d-sive corp in development, I am fine with it.


Might chip in on the powerplay though.

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06-19-2007, 06:43 AM
  #78
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As much as the Tennessean likes to put a negative spin on things....I think the tenor of this article is pretty much dead on.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....706190336/1028

If you watched Poile's presser from yesterday, his body language was more suited for being the conductor of the orchestra on the Titanic.

I am not one to throw in the towel, but looking at the whole thing analytically....averaging 14K next year is going to be a pipe dream....

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06-19-2007, 06:58 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
As much as the Tennessean likes to put a negative spin on things....I think the tenor of this article is pretty much dead on.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs....706190336/1028

If you watched Poile's presser from yesterday, his body language was more suited for being the conductor of the orchestra on the Titanic.

I am not one to throw in the towel, but looking at the whole thing analytically....averaging 14K next year is going to be a pipe dream....
Gotta love the headline "Kimonen and Hartnell". The article was a bit extra skewed in my opinion.

I don't look forward to free agency. I think we are screwed in our current position, but at the same time I also believe we have built a solid core of players and currently sit in a position where we need to rebuild our third and fourth lines and sign a couple of defensemen to round out our core.

We still have Legwand, Arnott, Erat, Radulov, Dumont, Sullivan, Tootoo at forward and Hamhuis, Weber, Suter, Zidlicky, and even Klein at defense, and although I suspect one will be traded...Vokoun and Mason in net.

We are not totally gutting our roster (at least we haven't yet) and personally as I stated yesterday, I don't think we were realistically going to see a hometown discount for either of those players and we certainly couldn't afford the contracts that they got.

Losing all hope of resigning Kariya and Forsberg is a hard pill to swallow, but again the article is skewed in that the Tennessean themselves printed Saturday that we weren't offering Vishnevski a contract (no brainer) and I really don't think that either Nichol, Smithson, or Zanon are in any position to really demand big bucks (Zanon definitely deserves a payraise IMO) or sign really long-term contracts therefore unless Poile mentioned them by name...I think adding them into our "key free agents" is a bunch of malarky.

It's going to be a long summer, no doubt...but we might just come out of this OK if we are able to sign a bunch of players with something to prove that are willing to overlook the uncertanity of ownership in Nashville to get their shot at the NHL in maybe a role they otherwise wouldn't get. You never know what we might find playerwise and it will be interesting to see how that works out in the end.

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06-19-2007, 07:44 AM
  #80
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Well we all knew this would happen. From the franchise point of view, we did get something for nothing really, we werent going to sign them, especially at those prices. But its discouraging and meant to be that way, Leiopold is like a puppet on a string for Basillie.

We still have a solid young core though. We still have lines like

Erat-Legwand-Radulov
Sullivan-Arnott-Dumont
(who knows what will be the 3rd & 4th lines now lol)

And a D- core of Weber, Hamuis, Suter, Zidlicky

Vokoun, Mason in goal

We still have a good team. If they dont trade all of those guys for future draft picks for the Hamilton franchise
I may become a Flyers fan now, they have half our old team LOL

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06-19-2007, 07:50 AM
  #81
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"Flyers won't even come close to a playoff spot and you heard it here first. These 2 won't win them 16-20 games more (cuz that is what it would take) and Biron isn't a world beater. They will battle it out with washington and Florida and the Leafs etc for the eastern basement."

You're delusional if you think the Flyers are not playoff competitive with the moves they have made, and keep in mind they haven't even started into free agency. We are talking about the Eastern Conference and the Flyers at this point look like they will fall in line with a small group of second tier teams behind the dominant two, Ottawa and Buffalo. The team will take a while to gell and will look better in the second half of the season. I can easily see them ending up somewhere in the 4-6 overall position in the East and you heard that here first.

To amplify on this a bit, there are teams with money and a will to spend it and teams that are uncertain of where they are financially and whether they are ready to compete in the current market for new players. The Flyers are definitely in the former camp. Teams like Buffalo and Long Island and pretty much all the teams in the Southeast are in the latter. You have teams like Toronto and Boston which have competed in free agency but haven't have great results also in the mix. You have cap-constrained teams like New Jersey and Tampa Bay. The Flyers are not up to the standard of top teams in the West but they will compete and compete quite well I believe in the East next year.


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06-19-2007, 08:13 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SLake View Post

It's going to be a long summer, no doubt...but we might just come out of this OK if we are able to sign a bunch of players with something to prove that are willing to overlook the uncertanity of ownership in Nashville to get their shot at the NHL in maybe a role they otherwise wouldn't get. You never know what we might find playerwise and it will be interesting to see how that works out in the end.
In all reality, if we come out with a more blue collar junkyard dog type of team, the city may embrace it more than one may think....this is when Poile needs to work some magic in finding chemistry and heart......

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06-19-2007, 08:21 AM
  #83
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Philly paid for the fact that they got first shot at Hartnell and Timonen. If the trade wasn't made, every team would have an equal shot at them.
ya i know thanks.

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06-19-2007, 08:29 AM
  #84
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It should not be too hard to complete this roster. We need 4-6 third to fourth liners........the cheapest and most readily available guys on the market. We need a top 3 defenseman, which we won't get.

I see us resigning Zanon and calling up Klein.

Hamhuis - Weber
Suter - Zidlicky (if he isn't dealt)
Klein - Zanon

That will likely be our defensive pairings. Zidlicky could very well be dealt if we need the money as he is the highest salary that isn't under a NTC and not named Steve Sullivan.

If we picked up some legitimate tough and defensive minded third liners, this team could still come close to another 100 point season. Our offense should still be in good shape. Our defense is almost the same with the absence of Kimmo who has been on the decline for years. Will our team be as good as last year? Not unless Weber, Suter, Hamhuis, and Radulov all emerge as superstars. Still, I think it is a team that has a chance to do something in the West. Who knows what will happen....

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06-19-2007, 08:39 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
In all reality, if we come out with a more blue collar junkyard dog type of team, the city may embrace it more than one may think....this is when Poile needs to work some magic in finding chemistry and heart......
The key! The key! This city watched Denny Lambert and (then unknown) Scott Walker. Patrick Cote and Bill Houlder. We cheered for Any Elmore for God's sake. The people of Nashville can show up and pull for this team. We have a very, very solid core that can win games. If Poile can use his imagination to spice it up, all the better.

I'd consider re-signing Scott Walker and naming him captain. Seriously. Maybe I don't know the dressing room politics but that kind of move could sell here. Feed him some quotes about playing for free if that's what it took to save hockey in Nashville. Etc. Etc.

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06-19-2007, 08:43 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
I'd consider re-signing Scott Walker and naming him captain. Seriously. Maybe I don't know the dressing room politics but that kind of move could sell here. Feed him some quotes about playing for free if that's what it took to save hockey in Nashville. Etc. Etc.
The same Scott Walker who supported the Predators not playing in Nashville? I'm sure Balsillie would be up for that.

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06-19-2007, 08:45 AM
  #87
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"We were never really able to have substantive discussions because no one really knew what was going on,'' said Bill Zito, Timonen's agent. "It's too bad because Kimmo really took great pride in what he had accomplished there.

"Had (the uncertainty surrounding the franchise) happened, we absolutely would have negotiated with the Predators until the last minute. It was his preference from the get-go to return there.''

Hartnell, who has played all six of his NHL seasons so far with the Predators, had also expressed an interest in returning to Nashville.

"I felt good at end of year, and I was like, 'Hopefully I will go back there,' '' Hartnell said. "I've got a beautiful house, great neighbors and great friends.

"It definitely would have been easy to go back there. It's going to be hard to say goodbye for sure.''
From the Tennessean article posted in this thread.

Sigh.

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06-19-2007, 08:50 AM
  #88
Seth Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
In all reality, if we come out with a more blue collar junkyard dog type of team, the city may embrace it more than one may think....this is when Poile needs to work some magic in finding chemistry and heart......
Yeah, maybe one that even ColdChicory would embrace. Heck, you know the fighters are the guys that normally come on the cheap...maybe we can become the "Broadway Bullies"

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06-19-2007, 12:21 PM
  #89
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This JYD philosophy does have a chance to make things work. Now that the shock is wearing off, I think this can be a very tough minded team. There were times last season I thought we lacked that element, and look how far it helped Anaheim get. The crowd loves the brawls, and I can swallow them, too, if there is enough skill and points to balance it out.
As long as DP can get an inspired and underrated lineup on the ice (I mean better than Abid type players), it could work...

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06-19-2007, 12:42 PM
  #90
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As long as DP can get an inspired and underrated lineup on the ice (I mean better than Abid type players), it could work...
Gads I regret the day we ever spent a draft pick on Abid. At least Colorado got a compensatory pick out of not signing him...

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06-19-2007, 01:32 PM
  #91
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The same Scott Walker who supported the Predators not playing in Nashville? I'm sure Balsillie would be up for that.
Prodigal son coming home for redemption....all the better.

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06-19-2007, 01:56 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by handtrick View Post
In all reality, if we come out with a more blue collar junkyard dog type of team, the city may embrace it more than one may think....this is when Poile needs to work some magic in finding chemistry and heart......
well, that's how I fell in love with the team way back when..

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06-19-2007, 04:23 PM
  #93
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Did anyone hear George McPhee on XM today, talking about how this type of deal was discussed and agreed to be "frowned upon" at the recent GM meetings? Poile making a maverick of himself, too?

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06-19-2007, 05:04 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
Did anyone hear George McPhee on XM today, talking about how this type of deal was discussed and agreed to be "frowned upon" at the recent GM meetings? Poile making a maverick of himself, too?
OR, sour grapes, maybe?

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06-20-2007, 01:57 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by braindead View Post
Prodigal son coming home for redemption....all the better.
Walker Re-Ups in Carolina For 3 Years

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06-20-2007, 02:10 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by nomorekids View Post
Did anyone hear George McPhee on XM today, talking about how this type of deal was discussed and agreed to be "frowned upon" at the recent GM meetings? Poile making a maverick of himself, too?
I didn't hear it, but what a load of crap.

Nashville nad the Flyers made a mutually beneficial move. Preds essentially gained something for nothing, and the Flyers got a deal don ahead of time, and locked up two very important pieces.

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06-20-2007, 02:23 PM
  #97
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I didn't hear it, but what a load of crap.

Nashville nad the Flyers made a mutually beneficial move. Preds essentially gained something for nothing, and the Flyers got a deal don ahead of time, and locked up two very important pieces.
I agree, and McPhee comes off as a whiner most of the time, anyway. I don't see the problem in rental deals(the other thing that some GMs are in a tizzy about) and I don't see the problem with this, either. It's just his way of saying, "no fair, I wanted to sign one of those guys without having to give up a first round pick to do it."

Personally, I'm glad to stick it to him, after he reportedly held Witt hostage after a deal had already been mostly agreed upon to get the first round pick out of us at that deadline.

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06-20-2007, 04:31 PM
  #98
Ohio Jones
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Guys:

I feel for the fans in Nashville - I really do. I remember how much it pained me personally to see the Jets and Nordiques leave - and I wasn't even living in those towns. To have the team you've followed fanatically for the better part of the past decade (and I know there's a solid fan base in Nashville) pulled out from under you... I can only imagine how much that must hurt.

Personally, I wish there could be teams in all the cities with enough fans who would come out and support them, and that includes Winnipeg, Québec City, Nashville, and - yes - even Hamilton. The problem is that the economics of big-league sports mean that a franchise is only sustainable - or at least going to make the most profit - where you have the vast supply of corporate advertising and luxury revenues, and Nashville just hasn't proven to be that place.

Hard as it may be, I think you have to give Leipold props for having stuck with it this long, hemhoragging (I can never spell that correctly) cash each year in order to give you guys what has turned out to be a terrific and entertaining franchise. But you can only bleed a guy for long long before he has to cut his losses.

Same goes for Balsillie. Sure, he'd love to have a team in Southern Ontario, but the guy's a smart - a VERY smart - businessman, and this is a business we're talking about here. If there was the sustainable revenue potential in Nashville that there is in Southern Ontario, do you think for a minute that Balsillie would move the team? Not likely. So while I understand where it's coming from, I think in all fairness Balsillie is no more the evil one in this scenario than Leipold is.

If you want to put this whole ugly situation at the feet of anyone, put it on Bettman and the the Board of Governeors and the economic situation they've created over the past 15 years.

I wish the team could stay. I really do. But it's not, so I just hope that after the worst of the hurt has passed, you guys can still support them - whatever city they happen to play in. For what it's worth, the folks in Hamilton are good people - you'd like them, and they've been trying for an NHL team for as lkong as I've been alive. Just to put that in perspective, there were 12 teams in the league when I was born...

As for this latest situation, no doubt yPoile could have found a way to keep one of the guys - Hartnell, one presumes - had the team's situation been different, but it's a bloody well-run organisation, and it will rebound from any of these hurdles quickly. Certainly faster than, say, the Leafs have in their 40-year post-Stanley Cup hangover!

Much props to the hockey fans in Nashville, and best wishes whatever comes.

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06-20-2007, 04:36 PM
  #99
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Don't cry any tears for Leipold. He didn't lose as much money as he said he did. The management company that ran the arena made a profit all those years.

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06-21-2007, 12:14 AM
  #100
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Don't cry any tears for Leipold. He didn't lose as much money as he said he did. The management company that ran the arena made a profit all those years.
Sources report over on the NP.com messageboards that between the Predators losses and Powers Management revenue, Leipold lost around $27 million since he has owned the team.

That is a far cry from the $90 million he claimed in the press release announcing the sale, but we still have to admit that $27 million is a hefty sum.

Mods, if you feel this is a violation of the HF Code of Conduct (quoting a messageboard as a source), please feel free to remove this post. I just don't know any other way to put it and if you PM me, I'm sure you will agree that it comes from a highly respected poster with initimate knowledge of the club.

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