HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Cherepanov

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-21-2007, 06:11 PM
  #26
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
T.B: It's been a while. I see you posting basically on weekends. Working hard? Remember you do owe me two beers for Giants/Redskins last year However, we 'll do the same bet this year if you want. However to the matter at hand. I don't trade Montoya as of now,. Keep him around for another year. He'll be tradeable soon enough. Take the best player available at 17. I must disagree that Montoya is our only elite propect. How about Mr. Staal?
Yeah, I am still busy at work. 4 moths of being very busy suddenly became 6. I know that I still owe you a few beers and I will pay up. And yes, we will make the same bet this year.

As for Montoya, unless a "can't miss" deal comes along, I am in no hurry to trade him for a few years to come. I would let him play in Hartford one more year, and then serve as Henke's understudy for two more years with the big club. After that, I would have an idea of how he is when compared to Henke. And then the decision can be made on whom to trade. But, like I said, if the right deal came along, nobody is untradeable.

As for Staal, being "elite", I just do not see him that way. Malin is elite. Marc's two brothers in the NHL are elite. Phanuef is elite. I just do not see Staal being that way. I see him as a very, very good complement to a #1 defenseman. One who will probably see multiple All-Star games. But not quite elite.

True Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2007, 06:47 PM
  #27
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemchinov13 View Post
What happened to Edge? Why doesn't he post here any more?
I was wondering that myself.

Pizza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2007, 08:12 PM
  #28
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
I was wondering that myself.
Probably for the same reasons that Klingsor posts so infrequentl, Deadlus stopped posting all together & Park disappeared. There are still a good amount of quality posters on here, but the overall quality of the board has done down hill.

True Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2007, 08:46 PM
  #29
bubba5
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,038
vCash: 500
I say trade away our pick and get some extra picks next year, this is a bad draft. Unless espo drops to 17 I say get the extra picks for next the next draft or stock pile them for a trade at the deadline next february

bubba5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-21-2007, 09:12 PM
  #30
Edge
Registered User
 
Edge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sin City
Country: United States
Posts: 13,196
vCash: 500
I'm back.

Sorry for disappearing, it's a pretty long story involving selling my business and going back to what I used to do for a living.

Admitedly though, the time away actually did me some good. When I did leave I was pretty burnt out with the constant arguments online. Feel pretty fresh now so I'm looking forward to putting crayons to chaos again.

As for Cherepanov my view on him is buyer beware. Certainly has an incredible amount of talent and a large amount of questions. To me I don't see his transfer being a problem for a team with money. My concerns are along the lines of effort.

If you're gonna move a prime asset you have to be getting a guy with less question marks or at least a guy with an NHL track record to balance those question marks.

If the right deal came along I'd move Montoya, but until someone is willing to give quality for him I'm not going to move him easily.

The real problem is that you're still hard pressed to find good deals for 21/22 year old goalies without NHL experience. Maybe one team finally makes a move like that, but the general rule to this point is that you don't do that. Heck it took a long time for teams to consistently take goalies with high picks to begin with, let alone trade draft assets for one that hasn't even become an NHL goalie yet.

Edge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-22-2007, 03:24 AM
  #31
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
anyone saw the interview? his hero is jaromir jagr..

get the kid to nyc!!

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2007, 03:44 AM
  #32
Draft Guru
Registered User
 
Draft Guru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 6,850
vCash: 920
How about we keep Montoya and still get Cherepanov?

Draft Guru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2007, 03:55 AM
  #33
DarthSather99
Registered User
 
DarthSather99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
I say trade away our pick and get some extra picks next year, this is a bad draft. Unless espo drops to 17 I say get the extra picks for next the next draft or stock pile them for a trade at the deadline next february
good thing this never happened.....

you never know what's going to happen in a draft.

DarthSather99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2007, 08:41 AM
  #34
AJ1982
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: New York
Posts: 1,812
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to AJ1982
We have been looking for an elite talent in our forward prospect pool for a long time. Cherepanov has that talent. At the 17th overall pick this is a steal. Esposito would have been a good pick as well but I think Cherepanov has more upside and he is currently better than Espo. Sather and company have had their eye on this guy for awhile and they get there man without having to trade up. Pat O'Sullivan dropped due to attitude problems and so did Schremp. I think that any attitude problems Cherepanov has are under closer examination due to the fact he is Russian (cultural differences). This guy had the talent to be in the top 3 of this years draft, even the number one. Love the pick.

AJ1982 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2007, 12:15 PM
  #35
Lion Hound
@JoeTucc26
 
Lion Hound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 3,713
vCash: 500
I literally jumped out of my chair when Edmonton took Plante...knowing either Espo or Cherepanov were still left. What a crazy draft! I still can't believe he fell that far, and I hope he comes in with a chip on his shoulder and makes the teams that pay that passed him up.

Lion Hound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 01:53 AM
  #36
ATLANTARANGER*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta, B&R in NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I'm back.

Sorry for disappearing, it's a pretty long story involving selling my business and going back to what I used to do for a living.

Admitedly though, the time away actually did me some good. When I did leave I was pretty burnt out with the constant arguments online. Feel pretty fresh now so I'm looking forward to putting crayons to chaos again.

As for Cherepanov my view on him is buyer beware. Certainly has an incredible amount of talent and a large amount of questions. To me I don't see his transfer being a problem for a team with money. My concerns are along the lines of effort.

If you're gonna move a prime asset you have to be getting a guy with less question marks or at least a guy with an NHL track record to balance those question marks.

If the right deal came along I'd move Montoya, but until someone is willing to give quality for him I'm not going to move him easily.

The real problem is that you're still hard pressed to find good deals for 21/22 year old goalies without NHL experience. Maybe one team finally makes a move like that, but the general rule to this point is that you don't do that. Heck it took a long time for teams to consistently take goalies with high picks to begin with, let alone trade draft assets for one that hasn't even become an NHL goalie yet.
Nice to see back as well. Missed your insights. I recommend that everyone go to MSG site and listed to what Gordie Clark said about the Brighton Beach Express. My personal opinion on this kid and his suppose issues are that there really aren't any. I think it was more of a case of people trying to find fault or just being contrary. Listening to the kid talk and remembering him from some of the WJC games I'm extremely happy about getting him, warts and all.

ATLANTARANGER* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 01:59 AM
  #37
ATLANTARANGER*
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Atlanta, B&R in NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,649
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Yeah, I am still busy at work. 4 moths of being very busy suddenly became 6. I know that I still owe you a few beers and I will pay up. And yes, we will make the same bet this year.

As for Montoya, unless a "can't miss" deal comes along, I am in no hurry to trade him for a few years to come. I would let him play in Hartford one more year, and then serve as Henke's understudy for two more years with the big club. After that, I would have an idea of how he is when compared to Henke. And then the decision can be made on whom to trade. But, like I said, if the right deal came along, nobody is untradeable.

As for Staal, being "elite", I just do not see him that way. Malin is elite. Marc's two brothers in the NHL are elite. Phanuef is elite. I just do not see Staal being that way. I see him as a very, very good complement to a #1 defenseman. One who will probably see multiple All-Star games. But not quite elite.
TB are you old enough to have seen Larry Robinson play when he was young? Staal is a duplicate IMO. He is Elite. Larry Robinson IMO was one of the cornerstones on IMO the best team ever to lace up their skates. Staal has shown many of the same qualties. At this age and at this point in time that is what you want to see. Thsi kid has gotten better and better. I think you will be pleasantly surprise when all is said and done. At worst I think he will be a Kevin Lowe type dman. Either way we have a gem on our hands. It won't hurt either when one of his brothers reach UFA status either. Carolina, Pittsburgh or NYC which presents the biggest stage to show your skills?

ATLANTARANGER* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 02:33 AM
  #38
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,984
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
Nice to see back as well. Missed your insights. I recommend that everyone go to MSG site and listed to what Gordie Clark said about the Brighton Beach Express. My personal opinion on this kid and his suppose issues are that there really aren't any. I think it was more of a case of people trying to find fault or just being contrary. Listening to the kid talk and remembering him from some of the WJC games I'm extremely happy about getting him, warts and all.
Thanks for the heads up. Checked out that GC interview. He seemed to have some honest observations on the kid. Said Chere doesn't have the greatest speed, but he's deceptive, and knows when to turn it on. Said his outside shot isn't superb, rather that he's dangerous from the top of the circles in. If he sees a little space over the goalies shoulder he's putting the puck in the net. Also a fantastic playmaker, he sees the entire ice and knows where everyone is. Can get the puck where it needs to go with his great hands.

broadwayblue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 07:54 AM
  #39
jas
Unsatisfied
 
jas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 13,634
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
TB are you old enough to have seen Larry Robinson play when he was young? Staal is a duplicate IMO. He is Elite. Larry Robinson IMO was one of the cornerstones on IMO the best team ever to lace up their skates. Staal has shown many of the same qualties. At this age and at this point in time that is what you want to see. Thsi kid has gotten better and better. I think you will be pleasantly surprise when all is said and done. At worst I think he will be a Kevin Lowe type dman. Either way we have a gem on our hands. It won't hurt either when one of his brothers reach UFA status either. Carolina, Pittsburgh or NYC which presents the biggest stage to show your skills?

What I think people are missing in regard to the whole "Is Staal a #1 D-man" debate is the mindset of Staal. I think, mentally Staal has the element of what makes a #1 D-man. There's a mindset that says, "I will do everything within my power to help this team win", and then that player backs it up with his play. From all of the reports we were getting from Sudbury fans during their playoff run, that's exactly what Staal was doing. He was willing his team to win, so much so that,a Sudbury that was not expected to do anything in the OHL playoffs, went a lot farther. Staal is anchor you build your D around, and someone I believe will be the #1 D-man for the rangers for a long time.

jas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 01:49 PM
  #40
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,768
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
What I think people are missing in regard to the whole "Is Staal a #1 D-man" debate is the mindset of Staal. I think, mentally Staal has the element of what makes a #1 D-man. There's a mindset that says, "I will do everything within my power to help this team win", and then that player backs it up with his play. From all of the reports we were getting from Sudbury fans during their playoff run, that's exactly what Staal was doing. He was willing his team to win, so much so that,a Sudbury that was not expected to do anything in the OHL playoffs, went a lot farther. Staal is anchor you build your D around, and someone I believe will be the #1 D-man for the rangers for a long time.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 06:29 PM
  #41
PromNite
Armed Android
 
PromNite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Country: United States
Posts: 8,730
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to PromNite
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
What I think people are missing in regard to the whole "Is Staal a #1 D-man" debate is the mindset of Staal. I think, mentally Staal has the element of what makes a #1 D-man. There's a mindset that says, "I will do everything within my power to help this team win", and then that player backs it up with his play. From all of the reports we were getting from Sudbury fans during their playoff run, that's exactly what Staal was doing. He was willing his team to win, so much so that,a Sudbury that was not expected to do anything in the OHL playoffs, went a lot farther. Staal is anchor you build your D around, and someone I believe will be the #1 D-man for the rangers for a long time.
Wow, excellent post. Thanks.

__________________


Adam Tensta's from the 163
PromNite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 07:19 PM
  #42
Pizza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,321
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
What I think people are missing in regard to the whole "Is Staal a #1 D-man" debate is the mindset of Staal. I think, mentally Staal has the element of what makes a #1 D-man. There's a mindset that says, "I will do everything within my power to help this team win", and then that player backs it up with his play. From all of the reports we were getting from Sudbury fans during their playoff run, that's exactly what Staal was doing. He was willing his team to win, so much so that,a Sudbury that was not expected to do anything in the OHL playoffs, went a lot farther. Staal is anchor you build your D around, and someone I believe will be the #1 D-man for the rangers for a long time.
Totally agree. I've said it many times. The mindset is critical. Staal has his mind right.

Pizza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 08:03 PM
  #43
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
What I think people are missing in regard to the whole "Is Staal a #1 D-man" debate is the mindset of Staal. I think, mentally Staal has the element of what makes a #1 D-man. There's a mindset that says, "I will do everything within my power to help this team win", and then that player backs it up with his play. From all of the reports we were getting from Sudbury fans during their playoff run, that's exactly what Staal was doing. He was willing his team to win, so much so that,a Sudbury that was not expected to do anything in the OHL playoffs, went a lot farther. Staal is anchor you build your D around, and someone I believe will be the #1 D-man for the rangers for a long time.
Great post.

Here is a kid who was named best D-man at the WJC, won the OHLs award as best defenseman and was named the postseason MVP. He is Sudbury's captain, plays around 30 minutes a night and apparantly played somewhere up to 60-65 minutes in Sudburys crazy OT elimination game with Belleville. He has been, on EVERY level he played at, a top defenseman.

He may never put up alot of points, but ill take a 30 minute defensive rock like him any day.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 08:16 PM
  #44
Levitate
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,533
vCash: 500
I think some peoples interpretation of an "elite, #1 defenseman" is someone who puts up a bunch of points and is defensively reliable. While Staal might not be top end elite (like Niedermayer or Lidstrom for example) I think he definitely has the ability to become a bonifide #1 defenseman and not just a "compliment".

Truly elite, franchise defensemen are rare, and you don't have to be amazing at both ends of the ice to be an extremely valuable #1 defenseman.

If Staal can be rock solid on defense while putting up 30-something points and playing a ton of first pairing minutes, I think that qualifies as being a legit #1 defenseman.

Levitate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 10:45 PM
  #45
True Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,390
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLANTARANGER View Post
TB are you old enough to have seen Larry Robinson play when he was young? Staal is a duplicate IMO. He is Elite. Larry Robinson IMO was one of the cornerstones on IMO the best team ever to lace up their skates. Staal has shown many of the same qualties. At this age and at this point in time that is what you want to see. Thsi kid has gotten better and better. I think you will be pleasantly surprise when all is said and done. At worst I think he will be a Kevin Lowe type dman.
I'd be fine with Kevin Lowe. And, yes, I have seen Robinson play. I certainly hope that Staal can play as well. I do not feel that one needs to pile up points to be a #1 defenseman. Right now, I just do not know that Staal can be that. Which does not mean that there is a far drop to a #2. Again, I certainly hope that Staal continues to excel at every level. What could be better than having an anchor like a Robinson around for the next 10-15 years? But until I see him performing as well at least at the AHL level, I will be a little more reserved about Staal. So far, indications are great. But it is a big jump fron juniors to the AHL.

True Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2007, 11:38 PM
  #46
The Amity Affliction
Chasing Ghosts
 
The Amity Affliction's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 9,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirinho View Post
If Rangers want some TOP 10 pick on the draft, Rangers should take Voracek instead of Cherepanov. Voracek is very similar to Jagr (not so good, but who knows ...) + he is from the same town as Jagr I think Voracek is the safest pick on this draft. Cherepanov is good too, but there is problem, with his contract in Omsk (and Cherepanov wants to play in Russia)
Voracek might be the safest pick in the draft, but his upside isn't as high as some people think it is. McKenzie and McGuire both weren't too high on him.

If anything, from the little I have seen, he reminds me of a slightly more talented Kyle Chipchura. Not overly great in any department, but solid all-around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd View Post
If there's any knock against Voracek, that's not it. All you hear about is how the guy shows up every game, results or not.
The knock on him is that he's not GREAT in any one single facet of the game. He's not great offensively. He's not great defensively. He's not a great skater. His best asset is his shot, from what I've heard. I'm not saying he's not good in any of these assets, he is, but he just isn't a top-flight talent. He's a safe, solid pick that isn't going to dissapoint. You know what you're going to get from him.

Things could change, and he develops into something better than I'm describing, but I see him as a 2nd line two-way center who can score 20-30 and 55-70.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthSather99 View Post
good thing this never happened.....

you never know what's going to happen in a draft.
You love the draft, don't you, DS?

You're already campaigning for '08!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edge View Post
I'm back.

Sorry for disappearing, it's a pretty long story involving selling my business and going back to what I used to do for a living.

Admitedly though, the time away actually did me some good. When I did leave I was pretty burnt out with the constant arguments online. Feel pretty fresh now so I'm looking forward to putting crayons to chaos again.
Welcome back!

Quote:
As for Cherepanov my view on him is buyer beware. Certainly has an incredible amount of talent and a large amount of questions. To me I don't see his transfer being a problem for a team with money. My concerns are along the lines of effort.
I don't know if I buy into this whole effort problem that some critics have been talking about. From what I've heard, they've overblown the situation completely just because he was completely out of breath after an excercise at the combines.

Kessel absolutely puked his brains last year after an excercise at the combines, and actually had some poor sessions as well. The kid went onto win the Masterton this year. What's that saying about his work ethic? I know he had a different situation, but most normal people don't just come back from cancer like that, especially the way Phil did.

Quote:
If you're gonna move a prime asset you have to be getting a guy with less question marks or at least a guy with an NHL track record to balance those question marks.

If the right deal came along I'd move Montoya, but until someone is willing to give quality for him I'm not going to move him easily.
A deal for Horton would have been tolerable. People who kept mentioning players like Lecavalier - myself included, but not in a serious manner - were just dreaming.

But I agree, you can't afford to take the risk. Especially when you lack the organizational depth to do so.

Quote:
The real problem is that you're still hard pressed to find good deals for 21/22 year old goalies without NHL experience. Maybe one team finally makes a move like that, but the general rule to this point is that you don't do that. Heck it took a long time for teams to consistently take goalies with high picks to begin with, let alone trade draft assets for one that hasn't even become an NHL goalie yet.
There's only been 2 goaltenders ever selected 1st overall, in DiPietro and Fleury, and that just goes to show that young goaltenders without the experience aren't as highly valued as forwards. There's a bigger chance of busting with goaltenders.


Last edited by The Amity Affliction: 06-24-2007 at 11:40 PM. Reason: Fixed Quoting.
The Amity Affliction is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.