HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Ottawa Senators
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

If you could change one Draft pick in Senators history..

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-05-2004, 12:27 PM
  #1
littleHossa
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,753
vCash: 500
If you could change one Draft pick in Senators history..

What if you could change one draft pick by the Senators into any of the players below that pick, which pick would it be, what player, and what do you think the difference would of been?

1992 draft, 2nd round 25th overall, instead of Chad Penny, the Senators select center Mike Peca ( what about that for a 67 )

With a good defensive center like Peca, and a offensive one like Yashin, the Senators might pick a winger #3 overall in the 1994 draft instead of Bonk...

littleHossa is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 12:41 PM
  #2
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,613
vCash: 500
Is there any other possible answer other than Daigle?

Some of guys I would have taken in place of him, in hindsight:
Pronger (my first choice)
Bertuzzi
Kariya
Allison
Arnott
Deadmarsh
Koivu
Niinima
Morrison
Daze
Satan
etc.

discostu is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 12:52 PM
  #3
SensGod
Registered User
 
SensGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotia Bank Place
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SensGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by littleHossa
What if you could change one draft pick by the Senators into any of the players below that pick, which pick would it be, what player, and what do you think the difference would of been?

1992 draft, 2nd round 25th overall, instead of Chad Penny, the Senators select center Mike Peca ( what about that for a 67 )

With a good defensive center like Peca, and a offensive one like Yashin, the Senators might pick a winger #3 overall in the 1994 draft instead of Bonk...
yeah...that Peca adn Yashin combo is doing wonders on the Island

For me...

It would EASILY either be Daigle for either Pronger, Kariya or Bertuzzi in 93

Neckar for Theodore in '94

Antti-Jussi Niemi for Lydman in '96

Jiri Fischer or Alex Tanguay instead of Marc Choinard in '98...this one just makes me sad...

Mike Comrie instead of Teemu Sainomaa in '99

Just about anyone instead of Choinard AGAIN in 2000

And recently...Shawn Belle instead of Patrick Eaves in 2003...although it's probably too early to tell...but Belle has been a monster since being drafted by St.Louis

SensGod is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 01:02 PM
  #4
Don Draper
Registered User
 
Don Draper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ottawa
Posts: 3,007
vCash: 500
I would not have changed in draft pick before 99. Surely we messed up a bunch of picks before then, but we would not have ended up with the players we have now if we had gotten so much better so quickly. So, after havlat, its all open to debate, we are now just concentrating on making all the right choices

i totally agree on the shawn belle comment. Watching him at the world juniors, he looked worlds better than Coburn even, just a total beast. His skating was second to none in that tourney

Don Draper is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 01:04 PM
  #5
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
And recently...Shawn Belle instead of Patrick Eaves in 2003...although it's probably too early to tell...but Belle has been a monster since being drafted by St.Louis
Interesting, isn't Jarmo Kekelainen is St. Louis now? I guess he's still got the magic touch.

discostu is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 01:28 PM
  #6
HF2002
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,839
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by discostu
Is there any other possible answer other than Daigle?

Some of guys I would have taken in place of him, in hindsight:
Pronger (my first choice)
Bertuzzi
Kariya
Allison
Arnott
Deadmarsh
Koivu
Niinima
Morrison
Daze
Satan
etc.
There were many in the Sens scouting staff who were reccomending Pronger over Daigle.

The pressure on the Sens to draft Daigle was enormous, thanks to the damn media. For most of the season before the draft the Citizen had a little chart with the "Daigle Cup", between Ottawa and San Jose, to see who would finish lower in the standings and thereby win the privelege of picking Daigle.

On top of that, there was a ton of pressure to make sure that Ottawa drafted a potential French superstar because the Sens had to have an appeal for the Francophone community in Ottawa.

All of this may have been enough to nudge management in the direction of Daigle had they evaluated the two as equal.

Whatever the reason it makes no difference now, unless the Sens try to right a wrong by acquiring Pronger now...

HF2002 is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 01:28 PM
  #7
Dr.Sens(e)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 6,634
vCash: 500
I have to go with Pronger instead of Daigle. Mostly because it was debated somewhat, and felt by a small minority, that Pronger should be the guy. Building around him wouldn't have made us much better, much quicker - so the draft in subsequent years probably would have been the same, but he would have been huge to build around in the late 90's.

Whether we could have kept him this long is another question.

As to Belle over Eaves, it's much too early to tell on that. And personally, I think Eaves made a bigger impact with the U.S. at the WJC than Belle with Team Canada. Only time will tell who will be better, but both are solid prospects.

Dr.Sens(e) is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 01:43 PM
  #8
Hossa
Registered User
 
Hossa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Abroad
Posts: 9,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HF2002
There were many in the Sens scouting staff who were reccomending Pronger over Daigle.

The pressure on the Sens to draft Daigle was enormous, thanks to the damn media. For most of the season before the draft the Citizen had a little chart with the "Daigle Cup", between Ottawa and San Jose, to see who would finish lower in the standings and thereby win the privelege of picking Daigle.

On top of that, there was a ton of pressure to make sure that Ottawa drafted a potential French superstar because the Sens had to have an appeal for the Francophone community in Ottawa.

All of this may have been enough to nudge management in the direction of Daigle had they evaluated the two as equal.

Whatever the reason it makes no difference now, unless the Sens try to right a wrong by acquiring Pronger now...
For that same reason, the Quebec Nordiques offered up Peter Forsberg and more (somebody else could probably tell you to be exact, but possibly their first round pick- Deadmarsh) for Daigle.

It's interesting to say the least, becuase if not for the Daigle mishap, this team could be unbelievable, or they could have run out of money completely and folded. Either way....

Hossa is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 01:53 PM
  #9
Pavel
Registered User
 
Pavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Houston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,593
vCash: 500
The only real answer has to be Daigle or Choiunard. The Sens usually hit homeruns in the first round.

How about Brad Richards instead of Chris Bala in 98.

Pavel is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 01:58 PM
  #10
Sting
Registered User
 
Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,278
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Sting
You have to remember Daigle was considered 'the next one'...much like crosby is now. He tore it up in the juniors and his rookie season wasn't all that bad with the Sens. Nobody could've predicted what was to come

I'd rather have taken Bertuzzi than Pronger...but then again, Bertuzzi took a little longer to develop as NYI found out. And yet another STUPID trade by the islanders by letting him go

For all the bad drafts we made some pretty sweet picks as well. Alfredsson was one of the biggest steals in the past 10 years, if not the biggest...and how Havlat was picked near the end of the first round I'll never know. He's 5x better than those who were picked before him.

Sting is online now  
Old
03-05-2004, 01:58 PM
  #11
Pavel
Registered User
 
Pavel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Houston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,593
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SensGod
Jiri Fischer or Alex Tanguay instead of Marc Choinard in '98...this one just makes me
Tanguay went 12th, he was off the board when Chouinard was drafted.

Pavel is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 02:34 PM
  #12
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,613
vCash: 500
What's fascinating, is that there are so few opportunities to improve many of the Sens early draft picks. Here's a list of all of our first round picks up to 2000, and the number of "better" options we could have taken drafted within a round of our first round pick. With "better" being so subjective, I've included all guys close enough in talent that may be considered. If they appear as an alternative, it doesn't necessarily mean they are in fact better.

1992: Drafted: Yashin, Alternatives: Gonchar
1993: Drafted: Daigle, Alternatives: Numerous
1994: Drafted: Bonk, Alternatives: O'Neil, Smyth
1995: Drafted: Berard - flipped for Redden, Alternatives: Iginla, Doan, Giguere
1996: Drafted: Phillips, Alternatives: Morris
1997: Drafted: Hossa, Alternatives: None
1998: Drafted: CHouinard, Alternative: Numerous
1999: Drafted: Havlat, Alternative: None
2000: Drafted: Volchenkov, Alternatives: Justin Williams

So, with 9 first rounders, we've struck out twice (Daigle, Chouinard), and in the remaining 7 drafts, there are 2 that were slam-dunk homeruns (Hossa, Havlat). For the remaining 5, I'd say that Ottawa still made the best choice (Yashin over Gonchar, Volchenkov over Williams). In the other 3 cases, Ottawa could have made a better decision, but the talent difference is marginal (Bonk vs. O'Neil or Smyth, Redden vs Iginla or Giguere or Doan, Phillips vs. Morris). That's a pretty impressive drafting history.

Add Ottawa's success in later rounds, and the results are even more impressive.

discostu is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 02:53 PM
  #13
L2k
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 80
vCash: 500
That's pure brilliance! NO WAY any other team has a better record in the first round over that stretch. I guess we paid our dues with Daigle and it's been pretty much all glory since.

L2k is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 03:05 PM
  #14
tmg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,551
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by L2k
That's pure brilliance! NO WAY any other team has a better record in the first round over that stretch.
Don't think any other team had the luxury of five consecutive top-3 picks, either.

The only team with a comparable string of top picks is Atlanta. And they seem to have a similar home run record (Stefan, Heatley, Kovalchuk, Lehtonen, Coburn) - and they only had 4 years in the bottom-3.

tmg is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 03:21 PM
  #15
Don Draper
Registered User
 
Don Draper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: ottawa
Posts: 3,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmg
Don't think any other team had the luxury of five consecutive top-3 picks, either.

The only team with a comparable string of top picks is Atlanta. And they seem to have a similar home run record (Stefan, Heatley, Kovalchuk, Lehtonen, Coburn) - and they only had 4 years in the bottom-3.
lets not forget that last years draft held about 10-15 top 5 picks in it, so the fact they got Coburn at 7 doesnt necesarrily make it a steal. There were 6 better players in front of him.

The fact of the matter is, we didnt make any mistakes, like so many other teams have. whether or not we had top picks or not doesnt matter, that they used them effectively is all that matters now. Also, the two most talented players we drafted we stole at 12 and 26, so until Atlanta does that, ottawa stands alone

Don Draper is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 03:30 PM
  #16
discostu
Registered User
 
discostu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Nomadville
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmg
Don't think any other team had the luxury of five consecutive top-3 picks, either.

The only team with a comparable string of top picks is Atlanta. And they seem to have a similar home run record (Stefan, Heatley, Kovalchuk, Lehtonen, Coburn) - and they only had 4 years in the bottom-3.
Sens are still 3 for 4 in that stretch for picks outside the top 10, so I'd say it's still damn impressive.

discostu is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 03:46 PM
  #17
Egil
Registered User
 
Egil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 8,827
vCash: 500
The fact that BOTH Hossa (12) and Havlat (26) are arguably the best players drafted in EITHER draft, to select them where we did is simply outstanding. Thornton is about the only guy who may throw Hossa out of the #1 spot, and nobody is close to Havlat from his year.

Phillips was another great pick, as most players that year were complete busts, so to get something good out of that #1 pick is tremendous (despite him being the current guy Leafs fans like to pick on for some strange reason).

Egil is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 04:03 PM
  #18
SensGod
Registered User
 
SensGod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Scotia Bank Place
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to SensGod
Quote:
Originally Posted by pavel
Tanguay went 12th, he was off the board when Chouinard was drafted.
Woops...meant Simon Gagne

SensGod is offline  
Old
03-05-2004, 04:22 PM
  #19
Sting
Registered User
 
Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oakville, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,278
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Sting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egil
The fact that BOTH Hossa (12) and Havlat (26) are arguably the best players drafted in EITHER draft, to select them where we did is simply outstanding. Thornton is about the only guy who may throw Hossa out of the #1 spot, and nobody is close to Havlat from his year.

Phillips was another great pick, as most players that year were complete busts, so to get something good out of that #1 pick is tremendous (despite him being the current guy Leafs fans like to pick on for some strange reason).
Phillips has taken a lot of heat about not living up to the #1 pick. Let's face it..he was the best that year if you ask me and a lot of the stuff he does goes unnoticed. If you ask me he's been very, very consistent and you don't see him making mistakes. He made that whole World Junior Team Canada defense...without him they may not have gotten gold in 1996 (I believe it was).

He's still got a lot more to show too I think..he's been steadily improving.

Sting is online now  
Old
03-05-2004, 04:31 PM
  #20
Murphy*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: SilverCupVille
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 5,889
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting004
Phillips has taken a lot of heat about not living up to the #1 pick. Let's face it..he was the best that year if you ask me and a lot of the stuff he does goes unnoticed. If you ask me he's been very, very consistent and you don't see him making mistakes. He made that whole World Junior Team Canada defense...without him they may not have gotten gold in 1996 (I believe it was).

He's still got a lot more to show too I think..he's been steadily improving.
Ya, I gotta agree that Phillips has gotten alot of heat in the past but not many people have complained about his game this year and if last season's playoffs are any indication of whats to come this spring, well I just cant wait for it! On a side note, one guy that reminds me alot of Phillips is Washington's Eminger...Dunno just me

Murphy* is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.