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If Lowe offered up his 1st and 2nd rounder in this years draft..

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Old
07-07-2007, 12:33 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by bagh View Post
Straka for a 1st and Second? I'd do that. I think we have enough wingers that we can spare one. Move up one of the guys line.
You might do that, but Sather never would. First off, there's the question of whether Straka would even report--he's made it very clear he's only interested in playing in New York with Jagr. Second, why would you want to piss Jagr off like that? And third, management feels they have a good chance to win a Stanley Cup before Jagr retires--how does getting rid of a player who has scored 146 points over the last two seasons make winning it all more likely? And all for a couple of draft picks who probably won't make an impact for 3-4 years?

Sather wouldn't even bother blowing smoke in your eyes.

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07-07-2007, 09:30 AM
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NYR finally gets a kid,who nets 30 in his rookie season and 22 the follwoing season,with his ice time cut and everyone wants to shut him out for Hossa.

And yeah every hockey player could put some pucks in the net like Hossa did, but I MO I dot see it being anything of concernMH is not a goal scorer and I dont see him top 15 goals through his whole careere, maybe a season or 2 of22 or so goals but that will be just fluke, and if he cant do that with Jagr well then , IMO hes a lost case or a great 4th liner.
Its really pretty sickening.

**** size its about heart and Prucha plays bigger than Hossa on his worse night. PP got more heart in hi little pinky than Hossa does in his whole body.

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07-07-2007, 09:48 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Prucha25Graves988 View Post
NYR finally gets a kid,who nets 30 in his rookie season and 22 the follwoing season,with his ice time cut and everyone wants to shut him out for Hossa.

And yeah every hockey player could put some pucks in the net like Hossa did, but I MO I dot see it being anything of concernMH is not a goal scorer and I dont see him top 15 goals through his whole careere, maybe a season or 2 of22 or so goals but that will be just fluke, and if he cant do that with Jagr well then , IMO hes a lost case or a great 4th liner.
Its really pretty sickening.

**** size its about heart and Prucha plays bigger than Hossa on his worse night. PP got more heart in hi little pinky than Hossa does in his whole body.
it has nothing to do with PP not being a better player with more heart than Hossa but rather who has better chemistry with the Jagr line and JJ loves having another big body with him that is able to establish the cycle and a guy who digs pucks out of the corners so Jagr doesn't have to like when he is the only big body on that line.

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07-07-2007, 10:00 AM
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JR, you don't have to go crazy here. You think Prucha is worth a first and a second. I don't. We're not the only ones who know this draft is supposed to be pretty good. Would you give up your first two picks in the same trade for a guy who is not a Bonafide first liner? I don't think many GM's do that unless they are so worried about getting canned that they don't figure to make it to the draft anyway. Prucha may have gotten you that before the 07 draft, I don't think he gets you that before the 08 draft. I don't know why you want to throw the thing at me either. Why don't you put your idea over on the EDM board and prove me wrong. If things look bleak for the Oilers, the last thing I would do is start selling off my draft picks, unless I'm getting the new face of the franchise back. Do you really think PP is that guy? One thing that has been proven in this league is that there is a reward for sucking, but only if you suck really, really, bad. Prucha can barely crack the top two lines on our team. I know that's Renney's doing but still. How do you sell your fans on the idea that you just gave up the pick that could turn out to be John Tavares for a guy who played on the third line on his old team? It just doesn't happen IMO.
I agree that the way to get better is by sucking and sucking big time to get the high draft choice but I don't know if you've been following things in the NHL the last 2 months but NOBODY has made more noise about what a drastic improvement his team was going to have more so then Lowe and true to his word he has attempted everything under the sun to do so but has stuckout for the most part other than the Pitkanen trade.

But it's pretty hard for Lowe to let all his season ticketholderrs know, OK, we tried but since we have struck out we are going to go in the other direction and we are going to try and suck this year, just like last year where we couldn't score a goal to save our lives, but we may have a shot at getting one of the top picks next year, who will probrably not play for another 2 or 3 yrs, but thanks for coming out".

So you never answered my question of if you were Lowe what assets would you move to improve your team?

And while PP is far from a perfect player what he is is a goalscorer, probrably the best goalscorer tthat may be available this summer, and especially the best for the price tag of 1.6 for 2 more yrs.

And goalscoring is exactly what Edm needs, especially with Hemsky who is a pure setup guy with no finisher to put it in the net.

I can see argueing the 2nd rounder on top of the 1st, maybe a 1st or a 3rd, but to argue even the 1st in lunacy because why in the world would the Rangers move Prucha if it wasn't for a 1st, and further I wouldn't even move Prucha for a 1st unless it was a team I felt had a really good shot at picking in the top 10 because at least 1/3 of the 1st rounder have a really good shot at never becoming an NHL regular.

BTW-I did throw it out there on the Edmonton board, not that I'm expecting guys there being overjoyed at giving up their 1st while probrably not knowing too much about Prucha to go along with the whole we all overvalue our own assets thing but we'll see.


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07-07-2007, 10:08 AM
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Disagree 100%, the 08 draft is way too stacked to waste our 1st on a guy like Prucha. Not a chance in hell.

We need a top liner for Hemsky, adding more 2nd line guys doesn't help us. We offered up a lot for a 1st line RFA. But the key was that he was a 1st liner. Prucha is not.
And how do you go about getting that top line guy for Hemsky?

What assets will you offer up?

And who do you think will be available this summer that has a leg up on Prucha, especially with him being signed for 1.6 per for 2 more years?

In case you haven't noticed, not many people want to hook up in Edmonton these days and the options are already severely limted with most of the player movement and cap space has already occured.

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07-07-2007, 12:02 PM
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Hell yeah I'd take a top 10 pick and a top 40 pick in the 2008 draft for Prucha.

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07-07-2007, 01:20 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JR#9 View Post
I agree that the way to get better is by sucking and sucking big time to get the high draft choice but I don't know if you've been following things in the NHL the last 2 months but NOBODY has made more noise about what a drastic improvement his team was going to have more so then Lowe and true to his word he has attempted everything under the sun to do so but has stuckout for the most part other than the Pitkanen trade.

But it's pretty hard for Lowe to let all his season ticketholderrs know, OK, we tried but since we have struck out we are going to go in the other direction and we are going to try and suck this year, just like last year where we couldn't score a goal to save our lives, but we may have a shot at getting one of the top picks next year, who will probrably not play for another 2 or 3 yrs, but thanks for coming out".

So you never answered my question of if you were Lowe what assets would you move to improve your team?

And while PP is far from a perfect player what he is is a goalscorer, probrably the best goalscorer tthat may be available this summer, and especially the best for the price tag of 1.6 for 2 more yrs.

And goalscoring is exactly what Edm needs, especially with Hemsky who is a pure setup guy with no finisher to put it in the net.

I can see argueing the 2nd rounder on top of the 1st, maybe a 1st or a 3rd, but to argue even the 1st in lunacy because why in the world would the Rangers move Prucha if it wasn't for a 1st, and further I wouldn't even move Prucha for a 1st unless it was a team I felt had a really good shot at picking in the top 10 because at least 1/3 of the 1st rounder have a really good shot at never becoming an NHL regular.

BTW-I did throw it out there on the Edmonton board, not that I'm expecting guys there being overjoyed at giving up their 1st while probrably not knowing too much about Prucha to go along with the whole we all overvalue our own assets thing but we'll see.
I didn't answer your question about who I would move if I were Lowe because I really don't care about the Oilers, and I don't watch enough Oiler games to know what parts are moveable. First round picks are pretty much the same all around. And while you say 1/3 of first rounders have a shot of never becoming a regular, how many top 10 picks never become regulars? If you think a team is going to finish top 10 in the draft, chances are they pretty much know it as well, and are not parting with that pick. Lowe is losing it anyway. If he's so desperate for goal scoring, why the hell did he just trade away Joffrey Lupul, who's at least equal to Prucha in terms of potential and output, for a defenseman?

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07-07-2007, 01:34 PM
  #33
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I didn't answer your question about who I would move if I were Lowe because I really don't care about the Oilers, and I don't watch enough Oiler games to know what parts are moveable. First round picks are pretty much the same all around. And while you say 1/3 of first rounders have a shot of never becoming a regular, how many top 10 picks never become regulars? If you think a team is going to finish top 10 in the draft, chances are they pretty much know it as well, and are not parting with that pick. Lowe is losing it anyway. If he's so desperate for goal scoring, why the hell did he just trade away Joffrey Lupul, who's at least equal to Prucha in terms of potential and output, for a defenseman?
I guess you really didn't watch too many Oiler games b/c suggesting that the Lupul trade means that they aren't desperate for goal scoring is crazy because if anything it made it a more dire situation if anything!!!!!!

And why he moved him was to absolutely steal Pitkanen out of Philly.

And while the pick has a shot at being top 10, from the oilers perspective they are desperately trying to make moves to improve themselves in the hope of beng in the playoff hunt so this very well could be a mid teens pick just the same.

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07-07-2007, 01:57 PM
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I guess you really didn't watch too many Oiler games b/c suggesting that the Lupul trade means that they aren't desperate for goal scoring is crazy because if anything it made it a more dire situation if anything!!!!!!

And why he moved him was to absolutely steal Pitkanen out of Philly.

And while the pick has a shot at being top 10, from the oilers perspective they are desperately trying to make moves to improve themselves in the hope of beng in the playoff hunt so this very well could be a mid teens pick just the same.
READ my post... Lowe is losing it... If he's so desperate for goal scoring, why did he just trade away Lupul? I never suggested what you say. I merely claimed what he is doing does not make sense.

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07-07-2007, 03:48 PM
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jesus.

Prucha DESERVES to be on the 1st/2nd line. Why don't people see that? He works extremely hard and still but up good numbers last season after getting very limited playing time. I hope he ends up on the first line this season with Gomez and Jagr.

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07-07-2007, 06:07 PM
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jesus.

Prucha DESERVES to be on the 1st/2nd line. Why don't people see that? He works extremely hard and still but up good numbers last season after getting very limited playing time. I hope he ends up on the first line this season with Gomez and Jagr.
The person who doesn't see it probably doesn't read this board.

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07-07-2007, 06:16 PM
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You might do that, but Sather never would. First off, there's the question of whether Straka would even report--he's made it very clear he's only interested in playing in New York with Jagr. Second, why would you want to piss Jagr off like that? And third, management feels they have a good chance to win a Stanley Cup before Jagr retires--how does getting rid of a player who has scored 146 points over the last two seasons make winning it all more likely? And all for a couple of draft picks who probably won't make an impact for 3-4 years?

Sather wouldn't even bother blowing smoke in your eyes.
Dude, I don't think he has a no trade clause. If he's unhappy with the proposed trade then that would be Edmonton's problem. Besides from what I've been reading, it seems Straka is unhappy about the loss of Nylander. Also, the way I look at it. The guy is going to retire soon and we have guys on our team who can pick up the slack if given the opportunity. As for jagr being unhappy, well people said the same thing about getting rid of Nylander and that worker out o.k. If it's in the best interest of the team, why wouldn't he be for it. On top of that, the way people are gushing about some of the guys in the 2008 draft makes it seem as if some of them can help right away.

Depending on which first rounder edmonton parts with, it can possibly be a lottery pick. The second rounder could probably be a high one as well. Besides, in 3-4 years whomever we pick might be necessary given how old most of all our top players will be by then. I mean Jagr, Shannahan and Straka will be long gone and Drury and Gomez will be in their mid thirties.

By getting Drury, we replaced Straka's production, and by moving Prucha up on a line with Gomez and Jagr, I think we might be able to do well in terms of chemistry. Gomez seems like a pass first/set-up guy, you have Jagr and Prucha as finishers. If teams focus on Jagr, you pass to Prucha and try and have him score. Generally, I don't agree with people on the boards analysis of players, but the assessment of prucha lacking set up skills seems apt (as evidenced by his lack of assists). With Gomez there, he doesn't have to worry about that. Jagr does a good job in terms of finding his teammates as well. If we got a guy who is one dimensional why not make the best of his talent.

I think our second line is pretty good with Shanahan and Drury in terms of scoring. I'd like someone like Callahan on the second line because I liked how he plays he is good enough in terms of scoring (as seen by his AHL numbers) to warrant a shot and the few times I saw him play it looked as if he has a good grasp of playing defence as well. Worst case scenario, you put avery back there again. He's a 20 goal scorer last season. i personally don't think he'll repeat it but he can act as the defensive conscious of the group by hitting any offensive player on the ice.

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07-07-2007, 09:22 PM
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To those who feel that Prucha is "wasted" if he's not on the top two lines and therefore should be traded:
Don't forget injuries and chemistry. It's very likely that at various points during the year Prucha will be playing on one of the top lines.
And if not....a 25-30 goal scorer on your 3rd line is still pretty valuable IMHO.

He's young, talented, gutsy, came up through our system, not to mention he's signed to an excellent contract!
This is a guy you hold on to unless someone comes to you with an overwhelming offer. Lowe's not giving us his 1st and 2nd rounders.

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07-07-2007, 09:42 PM
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Dude, I don't think he has a no trade clause. If he's unhappy with the proposed trade then that would be Edmonton's problem. Besides from what I've been reading, it seems Straka is unhappy about the loss of Nylander. Also, the way I look at it. The guy is going to retire soon and we have guys on our team who can pick up the slack if given the opportunity. As for jagr being unhappy, well people said the same thing about getting rid of Nylander and that worker out o.k. If it's in the best interest of the team, why wouldn't he be for it. On top of that, the way people are gushing about some of the guys in the 2008 draft makes it seem as if some of them can help right away.

Depending on which first rounder edmonton parts with, it can possibly be a lottery pick. The second rounder could probably be a high one as well. Besides, in 3-4 years whomever we pick might be necessary given how old most of all our top players will be by then. I mean Jagr, Shannahan and Straka will be long gone and Drury and Gomez will be in their mid thirties.

By getting Drury, we replaced Straka's production, and by moving Prucha up on a line with Gomez and Jagr, I think we might be able to do well in terms of chemistry. Gomez seems like a pass first/set-up guy, you have Jagr and Prucha as finishers. If teams focus on Jagr, you pass to Prucha and try and have him score. Generally, I don't agree with people on the boards analysis of players, but the assessment of prucha lacking set up skills seems apt (as evidenced by his lack of assists). With Gomez there, he doesn't have to worry about that. Jagr does a good job in terms of finding his teammates as well. If we got a guy who is one dimensional why not make the best of his talent.

I think our second line is pretty good with Shanahan and Drury in terms of scoring. I'd like someone like Callahan on the second line because I liked how he plays he is good enough in terms of scoring (as seen by his AHL numbers) to warrant a shot and the few times I saw him play it looked as if he has a good grasp of playing defence as well. Worst case scenario, you put avery back there again. He's a 20 goal scorer last season. i personally don't think he'll repeat it but he can act as the defensive conscious of the group by hitting any offensive player on the ice.
the point brooklyn was making is that straka, by saying it's new york or bust before, will undoubtedly make it known that he would refuse to report to edmonton or anywhere else if dealt there before the trade actually happened. and don't think that every other team in the nhl doesn't know this already. so while technically straka doesn't have a NTC or NMC he's virtually untradeable.

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07-07-2007, 10:15 PM
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Straka for a 1st and Second? I'd do that. I think we have enough wingers that we can spare one. Move up one of the guys line.
After Nylander went to the Caps? I don't think Straka is going anywhere, Jagr would go ballistic if we trade Straka and it would also put NYR in a bad light when Straka went from retiring to signing one more year just to play for us.

The deal is more than fair, but the Rangers cannot allow it to happen.

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07-08-2007, 12:07 AM
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Dude, I don't think he has a no trade clause. If he's unhappy with the proposed trade then that would be Edmonton's problem. Besides from what I've been reading, it seems Straka is unhappy about the loss of Nylander. Also, the way I look at it. The guy is going to retire soon and we have guys on our team who can pick up the slack if given the opportunity. As for jagr being unhappy, well people said the same thing about getting rid of Nylander and that worker out o.k. If it's in the best interest of the team, why wouldn't he be for it. On top of that, the way people are gushing about some of the guys in the 2008 draft makes it seem as if some of them can help right away.

Depending on which first rounder edmonton parts with, it can possibly be a lottery pick. The second rounder could probably be a high one as well. Besides, in 3-4 years whomever we pick might be necessary given how old most of all our top players will be by then. I mean Jagr, Shannahan and Straka will be long gone and Drury and Gomez will be in their mid thirties.

By getting Drury, we replaced Straka's production, and by moving Prucha up on a line with Gomez and Jagr, I think we might be able to do well in terms of chemistry. Gomez seems like a pass first/set-up guy, you have Jagr and Prucha as finishers. If teams focus on Jagr, you pass to Prucha and try and have him score. Generally, I don't agree with people on the boards analysis of players, but the assessment of prucha lacking set up skills seems apt (as evidenced by his lack of assists). With Gomez there, he doesn't have to worry about that. Jagr does a good job in terms of finding his teammates as well. If we got a guy who is one dimensional why not make the best of his talent.

I think our second line is pretty good with Shanahan and Drury in terms of scoring. I'd like someone like Callahan on the second line because I liked how he plays he is good enough in terms of scoring (as seen by his AHL numbers) to warrant a shot and the few times I saw him play it looked as if he has a good grasp of playing defence as well. Worst case scenario, you put avery back there again. He's a 20 goal scorer last season. i personally don't think he'll repeat it but he can act as the defensive conscious of the group by hitting any offensive player on the ice.
Sather isn't thinking about 3-4 years down the road--he's thinking about a Stanley Cup in the next two seasons and Straka is an important part of his strategy. Plus, while I like Prucha, think he will continue to improve, I don't think he's a big enough part of the answer to the many problems Edmonton already has--Lowe needs to hit a home run to calm things down and giving up a potential lottery pick for Prucha isn't going to do that.

And, as someone else pointed out, Straka has a de facto no trade clause, he didn't need to ask for one, it was a given between the two parties. If things go bust this season (shudder), perhaps Straka gets traded at the deadline, but even that's not a given.

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07-08-2007, 10:38 AM
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We offered up a lot for a 1st line RFA. But the key was that he was a 1st liner. Prucha is not.
It would have been something like 4 First rounders if you got Vanek, along with heaps of money. I think a good young second line player like Prucha is at least worth a 1st rounder, if not 2 first rounders. Also, keep in mind Prucha played on the bottom two lines with limited PP time for a good chunk of last season, certainly limited his production. Vanek played almost 17 minutes a game while Prucha averaged 13. Prucha, on the second line with solid PP time, can net you around 35 goals (if not more) and 70 points. With what Lowe was willing to give for Vanek a First and Second rounder for Prucha, who btw is only a year and third older than Vanek, seems relatively reasonable.

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07-08-2007, 10:45 AM
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jesus.

Prucha DESERVES to be on the 1st/2nd line. Why don't people see that? He works extremely hard and still but up good numbers last season after getting very limited playing time. I hope he ends up on the first line this season with Gomez and Jagr.
Jagr likes a big winger on his line. Why do you think when Hossa was hurt Isbister was on his line. I'll give you a hint its not because of his skill.

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07-08-2007, 10:47 AM
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Jagr likes a big winger on his line. Why do you think when Hossa was hurt Isbister was on his line. I'll give you a hint its not because of his skill.
Really good point - if Renney didn't play Prucha on the first line when Hossa was hurt last year, what makes you think that he'll do it this year when Hossa is (hopefully) available to play on his line?

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07-08-2007, 10:57 AM
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[QUOTE=AJ1982;9852937] I think a good young second line player like Prucha is at least worth a 1st rounder, if not 2 first rounders.QUOTE]

If any of the other 29 GM's in this league would offer two first rounders for Prucha, he'd be traded already.

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07-08-2007, 01:15 PM
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[QUOTE=SML;9853043]
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I think a good young second line player like Prucha is at least worth a 1st rounder, if not 2 first rounders.QUOTE]

If any of the other 29 GM's in this league would offer two first rounders for Prucha, he'd be traded already.
Keep in mind this was relative to what Lowe was willing to pay for Vanek.

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