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Winners and Losers of FA

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Old
07-07-2007, 07:14 PM
  #26
John Flyers Fan
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
If you look above i said i thought the Timonen and Hartnell deals where good it's just Briere's i question. The Flyers have alot of tradeable assets that they could have used to there advantage. I know chances are you won't get a Brad Richards but if i was holmgren i throw everything at them to make them say yes. Sure it may be a steep price(let's say Pitkanen, Carter and 1rst overall) but to get the right guy for the situation is worth the price and if you need to fill out your roster after that you make good cheap signings on the free agent market (ala Pittsburgh)
Your strategy is assinine.

The difference between Richards and Briere isn't much at all. Richards makes $1.3 million more, plus you give up Carter (2nd line center), top prospect (JVR), and 2 other players (Jason Smith and Joffrey Lupul)

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07-07-2007, 08:37 PM
  #27
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I am not saying the Flyers did bad, the problem is they made a huge gamble with the Briere signing. It could pay off, it could be a disaster, but it probably will fall somewhere inbetween. When you are paying a guy 6.5M for 8 years that is a huge investment into the long term plans of your team. If i was the flyers i would have taken the safer route and tried to resign Forsberg for 1 year instead. Sure it doesn't make as big of headlines but it gives you some cap flexibility down the line. There are a bunch of centers next year that i think could fit the Flyers plans better, but the Flyers felt the need to put all there eggs in one basket this year.
Fair enough, we can debate whether the contract is good or bad all day. But what I took issue with in your first post was that you seemed to be implying that the Pens had a better offseason because they plugged holes in their existing core...when the Flyers did the exact same thing.

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07-07-2007, 09:38 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by John Flyers Fan View Post
Your strategy is assinine.

The difference between Richards and Briere isn't much at all. Richards makes $1.3 million more, plus you give up Carter (2nd line center), top prospect (JVR), and 2 other players (Jason Smith and Joffrey Lupul)
I would disagree, one has won a Conn Smyth the other hasn't. Briere is a very good player but Richards is just 1 step ahead of him which can make all the difference between winning a couple rounds and winning the Stanley cup.

Let's say you don't think Richards is the guy to lead you to the promise land, then fill in the name with anyother star player. I think Anaheim is a perfect example of going all out for a big name player(instead of trying to pick one up for free as a UFA). Burke decided Pronger was the guy who would bring them over the edge and paid a heavy price from his wealth of assets to aquire him.

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07-08-2007, 12:41 AM
  #29
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I would disagree, one has won a Conn Smyth the other hasn't. Briere is a very good player but Richards is just 1 step ahead of him which can make all the difference between winning a couple rounds and winning the Stanley cup.

Let's say you don't think Richards is the guy to lead you to the promise land, then fill in the name with anyother star player. I think Anaheim is a perfect example of going all out for a big name player(instead of trying to pick one up for free as a UFA). Burke decided Pronger was the guy who would bring them over the edge and paid a heavy price from his wealth of assets to aquire him.
Speaking of Conn Smythe winners.....correct me if I'm wrong (don't bother, I know I'm not), but wasn't this year's winner acquired by the Ducks via free agency?

So yes, they got a key to their team via Free Agency (ala the Flyers with Briere) and got another key via trading (ala the Flyers with Timonen, Upshall, Smith, Kukkonen, etc.) So.................teams plug up their holes any way they can. Interesting concept, I think I discussed it like 10 posts ago.

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07-08-2007, 01:04 AM
  #30
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Anaheim--Bertuzzi for WHAT kind of money? Ridiculous. Totally ridiculous. Post Stanley Insanity is what it´s called--PSI. Although not anyone´s fault, Selanne and Neidermayer might be retiring. Schneider is no Nediermayer and no one can fill in for Teemu.

I see the Ducks as having a very effective UFA period. They had bad luck in Selanne and Niedermeyer retiring (or likely to do so). But they replaced them with 2 very effective players in Schneider and Bertuzzi and not for long term ridiculous deals either.

They are a worse team but they made the best choices of UFAs availble to them and I think clearly got the 2 guys they wanted to get.

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07-08-2007, 11:26 AM
  #31
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Speaking of Conn Smythe winners.....correct me if I'm wrong (don't bother, I know I'm not), but wasn't this year's winner acquired by the Ducks via free agency?
So you are comparing arguably one of the top 5 defensemen of the past 15 years and what he brings to the game to Briere? Niedermayer is what i would consider a guy you can build your team around, but fact is he was one of the few players at that level that ever made it to becoming a UFA(players like that usually get locked up in long term deals before they become a UFA, with the lockout it scewed the devils who didn't have a chance to renegotiate his deal a year before it was up).

There was no player this year at that level, with Iggy and Thorton signing new contract extensions there will be no player next year at that level and i am guessing it will be awhile before you get a player at that high quality in the near future(which is why your only option is to trade for them 99% of the time(Neidermeyer being that 1% exception)).

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07-08-2007, 11:32 AM
  #32
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you can add whoever gets souray to that loser list as well

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07-08-2007, 12:17 PM
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you can add whoever gets souray to that loser list as well
sadly i think there is a decent shot that my Islanders might sign him. Anything over 5M a year(unless it a short term deal) and i will cringe.

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07-08-2007, 03:10 PM
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sadly i think there is a decent shot that my Islanders might sign him. Anything over 5M a year(unless it a short term deal) and i will cringe.
Holy crow!!! I've been debating the Briere signing with an Islanders fan???? Sheesh, forget all my arguments, you are right. Clearly, we should've signed old Danny boy to a 15 year contract.

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07-09-2007, 12:40 PM
  #35
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Holy crow!!! I've been debating the Briere signing with an Islanders fan???? Sheesh, forget all my arguments, you are right. Clearly, we should've signed old Danny boy to a 15 year contract.
i think somebody earlier in the thread pointed it out but who better to understand the problems that can arise giving a second tier star a huge long term deal then an Islanders fan.

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07-09-2007, 12:57 PM
  #36
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i think somebody earlier in the thread pointed it out but who better to understand the problems that can arise giving a second tier star a huge long term deal then an Islanders fan.
The yashin deal wouldn't have looked bad if he was giving you the 80-90 points you were expecting.

Briere doesn't have heart issues. If he puts up the 60-65 points a year that Yashin was giving you, then it will be a disasterous signing. I see no reason that should happen, at least in years 1-5.

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07-09-2007, 01:56 PM
  #37
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Sather hardly painted himself in a corner. There is 12 million at least coming off the books next year. I'm not worried about them signing Lundqvist. I also wouldn't be so quick to call the Flyers winners. The Timmonen contract was much dumber than the UFA contracts handed out by Sather. Timmonen had a wealth of young, talented defenseman around him and was on a very good team. I didn't think he was great to begin with. I suspect his play will drop a lot. Giving Hartnell that money when he hasn't scored 30 goals and is injury prone was absurd. Briere should take the scoring pressure off the young forwards. So that's good. The bad part is he's as soft as a pillow.

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07-09-2007, 02:23 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by signlundqvist View Post
Sather hardly painted himself in a corner. There is 12 million at least coming off the books next year. I'm not worried about them signing Lundqvist. I also wouldn't be so quick to call the Flyers winners. The Timmonen contract was much dumber than the UFA contracts handed out by Sather. Timmonen had a wealth of young, talented defenseman around him and was on a very good team. I didn't think he was great to begin with. I suspect his play will drop a lot. Giving Hartnell that money when he hasn't scored 30 goals and is injury prone was absurd. Briere should take the scoring pressure off the young forwards. So that's good. The bad part is he's as soft as a pillow.
Are you joking? Do you remember when Nashville was that crappy team sitting at the bottom of the Western Conference? I do. And I remember Timonen as being a damn good offensive D-man. Besides the fact that he´ll be playing on a BETTER first line with the Flyers than he was with the Preds. Gagne, Knuble, Briere and whoever his pairing is AND he´ll undoubtedly be the quarterback of the entire powerplay. He´s not a great player? He´s been getting more and more points each year since he started playing--that´s a sign of greatness. Ridiculous not to call him a great player and to claim his play will drop a lot. Everyone says Briere is soft because of his playoff play. He led the team in points and assists in the playoffs. Not too many goals, but the people that set up the goals are just as important. The people that claimed he was soft and sucked in the playoffs were the sour Sabres fans that knew he was going into the FA market. He played 81 games in the season last year, so he´s a healthy player. Timonen is far from injury prone, which makes him more valuable. Scott Hartnell is gritty which is good for the Flyers play, seeing as we need some more gritty forwards on our 2nd line. He´ll be able to supply that and I wouldn´t mind seeing him paired up with Upshall or Lupul on the opposite wing (presumably Carter will be centering the line). He was over-paid, but was needed to bulk out the Flyers lines. He provides a striking amount of depth.

Bottomline, I agree that Hartnell was over-paid, but he would´ve gotten that much no matter where he went. Timonen was hardly over-paid. He is now our defensive leader that will be healthy throughout the year, work hard in the playoffs, QB our special teams and, most importantly, be a minute consuming top defenseman.

Saying that the Flyers weren´t winners of the off-season can be said to any of the perceived winners. The Rags for example. Gomez had a crappy year, scoring just 13 goals and he got MORE money than the year before. Over seven million dollars for a guy who can´t score 20 goals. Oh, and Drury. Mr. 60 point scorer himself. Sounds like you guys are in the same boat. As I said before.....Rags should have signed one of the centers and then gone after Smyth. Jagr, Drury, Smyth would be a killer line. Then sign Nylander to the left over money that Gomez would´ve consumed, and sit him next to Straka and Prucha. Leaves plenty of cash to sign Lundqvist. As far as I´ve heard, Lundy hasn´t been signed and, although it looks good for the Rags, he may not be. As I said, I think he will, but it´s hard to say Sather hasn´t painted himself in a corner. If he is struggling to sign Lundqvist....one of the best goalies in the game, who´s very young AND wants to play for the team, it looks like he´s got himself in some kind of salary issues. It doesn´t matter that Sather has 12 million next year, Lundy is a FA THIS year.

Signing Gomez to over 7 million dollars a season for 7 years is dumber than signing Timonen to 6.5 for 6. Christ, Timonen can score more goals than him!

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Old
07-09-2007, 02:40 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by signlundqvist View Post
Sather hardly painted himself in a corner. There is 12 million at least coming off the books next year. I'm not worried about them signing Lundqvist. I also wouldn't be so quick to call the Flyers winners. The Timmonen contract was much dumber than the UFA contracts handed out by Sather. Timmonen had a wealth of young, talented defenseman around him and was on a very good team. I didn't think he was great to begin with. I suspect his play will drop a lot. Giving Hartnell that money when he hasn't scored 30 goals and is injury prone was absurd. Briere should take the scoring pressure off the young forwards. So that's good. The bad part is he's as soft as a pillow.
Well I guess Rafalski's contract was dumb, so was Schneiders both were on very good teams.
Almost 14.5M for 130 points? While addressing your teams needs. Good? Bad? We'll find out.

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Old
07-09-2007, 06:27 PM
  #40
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i think somebody earlier in the thread pointed it out but who better to understand the problems that can arise giving a second tier star a huge long term deal then an Islanders fan.
Briere isn't "second tier" so there goes that argument.

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Old
07-10-2007, 12:29 AM
  #41
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Briere isn't "second tier" so there goes that argument.
I think I disagree. If you'd say the first tier includes guys like Crosby, Thornton, etc. Then I'd say Briere is a step or two below that. Second tier isn't an insult when you consider how good first tier is.

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