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Who's the best 2 way player in the league?

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Old
03-05-2004, 04:01 PM
  #26
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Federov. Period.

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03-05-2004, 04:01 PM
  #27
ChemiseBleuHonnete
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maybe not the best but my favorite are Elias and Madden (and I don't like NJ, I want my habs to take their #6 spot). Elias is the best defensive-wise for the players with superstar skills*. Madden is the best at shutting down the best opposite players in clutch situations like play-offs. Modano and Fedorov are there too.

*Elias has elite level skills for real... One of the best set of hands in the league, heart, speed to run out the snow out of the ice, a wicked shot and some nice playmaking skills.

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Old
03-05-2004, 04:12 PM
  #28
benji
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Martin St.Louis is really tearing it up on the PK with his 6 shortys. Lehtinen and Fedorov and Forsberg are probably the best though.

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Old
03-05-2004, 04:15 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon
Look at the number of games Lehtinen has played. He's lacking in offense because he's been injured.

No, that's not why.
He's played in 48 games and has 19 points.
That's .396 points per game.

Turner Stevenson also has 19 points for example, in 46 games.

That's just not high enough to be called a top two way player.
Nothing against him as a player, but when you're talking about the top two way players you're talking about people that excel at both ends. And Lehtinen in no way shape or form can be said to excel in the offensive end.

Doesn't mean he's not an exceptional player or a Selke calibur player, but if he fits you're version of top two way player your standards on the offensive end are too low.

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Old
03-05-2004, 04:17 PM
  #30
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Modano? Yeah, his -17 is pretty impressive...

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Old
03-05-2004, 04:25 PM
  #31
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Forsberg, Hossa.

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Old
03-05-2004, 05:53 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
Doesn't two way imply offense and defense? What's with all the non-scoring defensive players?


Lehtinen is tired at 290th in the league in scoring.

of them.

Elias, now thats a two way player. Near the top in goals and hustles and gives effort on D. He's a +25.
I think its more of a general thing. Yes, Lehtinen is struggling offensively this year, but he had 5 straight seasons of 20+ goals before this year.

And +/- is still a decieving stat. It has alot to do with what team you are on. If Elias played for Pittsburgh, he wouldnt be +25. And thats not to diminish Elias, because he is a terrific player. I was just using him as an example becuase he was in your post. A good +/- does not clearly determine who is/isn't a good 2 way player.

Personally, nowadays I think the NHL is FULL of good 2 way players. They are more the majority now. Almost everybody is defensivley conscious these days. So the list of the best could be over 100 players long.

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Old
03-05-2004, 05:55 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modano = God
You mean after Jere Lehtinen? I think its a tie between Feds and Mo..
I thought you would say DiMaio.

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Old
03-05-2004, 06:54 PM
  #34
kmad
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Nobody's mentioned Brian Rolston yet?

and yeah I'd go with Sergei Fedorov

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Old
03-05-2004, 10:09 PM
  #35
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I was just about to mention Brian Rolston... but yeah I echo everyone else in mentioning Mike Modano, Sergei Fedorov and Brendan Morrison. Out of those guys I still think Fedorov is the better 2-way player.

If he keeps improving his already high level of play, I'd be here in a few years time mentioning Henrik Zetterberg as one of the top 2-way players in the NHL. In his second year he already plays in all situations for the Wings and causes trouble for opponents when playing on the PK (1G-3A Shorthanded on the season) and is a great on the PP (7G-5A). These stats help give Zetterberg 34 points in 45 games this season (13-21-34) to go along with a +11 rating.

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Old
03-05-2004, 10:29 PM
  #36
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I'm a Devil fan but the answer is Fedorov

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Old
03-05-2004, 11:24 PM
  #37
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Ill say Todd Marchant. Ryan Smyth isnt bad either.

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Old
03-05-2004, 11:45 PM
  #38
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Even though he isn't really that good, I'll mention Alyn McCauley possibly?

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Old
03-05-2004, 11:53 PM
  #39
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Fedorov is in the top 10 in the NHL on offensive ability(I'd say 6th-9th), and he's top 5 on defensive ability. I'll have to say him, which has been my answer to the question for a good 2-3 years now.

Modano's very good too. Peca can also be when he wants to.

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Old
03-06-2004, 12:19 AM
  #40
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How can John Madden can be named in this kind of thread? The guy isn't a two player. He is a STRICTLY defensive player. The guy doesn't even have 40 points! Don't get me wrong, he is a great defensive player, but when it comes to offense he's pretty average. He cannot be mentionned in the same sentence as guy like Lehtinen, Modano, Fedorov and Forsberg when it comes to two-way players.

Madden is probably the most overrated player in this league.

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Old
03-06-2004, 12:32 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
Nobody's mentioned Brian Rolston yet?

Shhhhh don't tell anybody.... We want sign him after this year.

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Old
03-06-2004, 12:46 AM
  #42
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This year? I think Kris Draper warrants a mention. then the usual suspects Fedorov,Forsberg,Lehtinen etc.

I think Alex Frolov of the Kings is an exceptional two way player perhaps not the best but underrated in those areas none the less.

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Old
03-06-2004, 01:15 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaloFan
Modano? Yeah, his -17 is pretty impressive...
Hmm I take it you just started watching hockey this year?

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Old
03-06-2004, 01:21 AM
  #44
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Frolov gets a vote from me.

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Old
03-06-2004, 01:24 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire
Hmm I take it you just started watching hockey this year?
Some people are writing off Lehtinen though because he hasn't been putting up the points this year like he has in the past.

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Old
03-06-2004, 02:15 AM
  #46
The Frugal Gourmet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islandnucker
Some people are writing off Lehtinen though because he hasn't been putting up the points this year like he has in the past.
This is definitely an off-year for Lehtinen. Perhaps because it's an off-year for Mike Modano, and those two have historically had magical chemistry.

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Old
03-06-2004, 02:59 AM
  #47
Ajacied
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquidrage
No, that's not why.
He's played in 48 games and has 19 points.
That's .396 points per game.

Turner Stevenson also has 19 points for example, in 46 games.

That's just not high enough to be called a top two way player.
Nothing against him as a player, but when you're talking about the top two way players you're talking about people that excel at both ends. And Lehtinen in no way shape or form can be said to excel in the offensive end.

Doesn't mean he's not an exceptional player or a Selke calibur player, but if he fits you're version of top two way player your standards on the offensive end are too low.
Jere Lehtinen is, like the rest of the entire team, enjoying an horrible year, offensively productive wise (example: before last nights game, Stars ranked 23rd in goals scored. Below the Hawks and Devils. The Stars scored goals at a 1.89 clip in the first 50 games). You've based his offensive capabilities on this year and this year only. If using the same logic Mikka Kiprussof would already be nominated into the Hall of Fame (Well, before the Stars game :p ). The previous season, Jere scored 31 goals, after scoring 20+ in 4 straight before that. How many Selke frontrunners have you known who can score 31 goals and still win the Selke with a rediculous difference? The last ones were Steve Yzerman and Sergei Fedorov, but that was nearly 10 years ago, where the Selke was more of a +/- thingy.

Jere is an exceptional player and IMO by far the best two-way player in the game. The value he provides for his team goes beyond Mike Modano's usual ppg and sound defensive game, or beyond Guerin's potenial 40 goals. When producing at a normal clip, Jere averages out with 25 goals and 20 assists playing outstanding defense. If you want anyone to pay more attention scoring, it automaticly makes you worse defensively. At some point you have to sacrafice a part of your defensive comittment if you want to score more. He's found the perfect balance and likely records the maximum number of points an outstanding defensive player can reach without sacraficing a bit of his defense.

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