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what kinda return would you look for in exchange for Marcel Hossa?

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Old
07-06-2007, 07:07 PM
  #26
NYR94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
just running through scenarios, and a few of them basically necessitate trading him away. i know most of us are worried that hes -->| |<--- THAT close to busting out, but it may be a necessary evil. what kinda return do you think you could get for him?

im wondering, since atlanta needs some offensive help with all the losses theyve suffered this year, if we could package him, and a 2nd for a first rounder.
Just a freed up roster spot would be enough.

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Old
07-06-2007, 07:19 PM
  #27
DarthSather99
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I don't want to trade Hossa...he's a great puck possession guy in the offensive zone.

Any trades we make in the future should be for draft picks. We are too tight against the cap to upgrade and we have tons of prospects below. We need to keep the prospect pipeline flowing.

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Old
07-06-2007, 07:25 PM
  #28
Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
any stat can be twisted...see above...

misused? I disagree...

Pruchas linemates for most of the season were Cullen and Shanny/Ortmeyer...Out of those three guys Ortmeyer is the guy that shouldn't be playing with Prucha...

Although the cop line did have some success...right?

The fact is Prucha IN REALITY scored 0 goals in the playoffs....0 goals the first month of the season...right or wrong?

it's been a long time since i've seen stats twisted like this before....Instead of actually looking at the stats that count...you want to argue Prucha shouldnt' be playing with Cullen..fair enough...I had the same problem but to compare the WHAT COULD'VE been to what actually was?...sorry your argument holds no water....

i know it probably took you some time to do it but to me it was wasted...Prucha had a down year...is a nice second line player...has trade value and shouldn't be considered untouchable...
its kinda hard to follow your thought process here, because all you say in here repeatedly is that i am twisting stats, and my argument holds no water. which is fine, but while reading your post, there still is NOTHING here that says why exactly.

did he have 0 goals in the playoffs? absolutely. Did he have a down year? im not sure i would say that, i agree his physical production was down, but then again his pp minutes were cut in half, and his overall minutes played was below 13 minutes a game (roughly half of Jagrs ice time). and yet, when you compare their goal totals, prucha did in fact score 22 goals to Jagrs 30. clearly, (and let me be clear on this) im not trying to compare the 2 players, but if 22 goals is a terrible season, what is 30? what about matt cullens total? everyone wants to keep him, yet he was less productive (offensively at least).


heres all im saying. IF, you pair Prucha with players who can dish the puck well, then his productivity SHOULD increase. IF you pair him with players who dont play to his strengths, then his productivity SHOULD decrease.

What we saw 2 years ago was a Prucha who played more, and got first line PP minutes. What we saw last year was a Prucha who played less, and got fewer PP minutes.

And yet, all you hear about is how bad he is, how hes one-dimensional, how he needs to be traded, how he had such an off year. I'll tell you what, despite Jagrs insane skill, i guarantee you if you put him with a guy like Betts, his numbers would drop. Why? BECAUSE THEY DONT MATCH.


I really wouldnt be opposed to seeing Prucha play with Gomez this year.

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Old
07-06-2007, 09:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by bleedblue94 View Post
we have a 3rd line center .... his name is avery
Just because one can play center, does not mean they should. Center is not where Avery is at his best.

It's great knowing that players like Avery & Straka can play there in a pinch, but optimally they are wings.

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Old
07-06-2007, 09:49 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
How about packaging Hossa and Pock for Garnett Exelby? Atlanta get little brother, who outplayed big brother in the playoffs, and also gets a young defenseman with a decent shot, and some offensive instincts.
id do it, thrashers would not. They love Exelby. id sign Vishnevski if we want a physical dman. Id trade Hossa and Pock to the Yotes for Randall Gelech and draft pick. We can use help in the RW in terms of prospects.

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Old
07-06-2007, 10:42 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Maybe I'm going a bit off topic here and, if so, I apologize...but...

I don't think we would get all that much for Hossa, yet...And one of the reasons I would trade Petr Prucha before Hossa..Those reasons:

1) I think Prucha is the better player right now but he is still very inconsistent (just like Hossa) and doesn't always put forth the effort defensively.
2) If EVERYTHING came together for both players, Hossa would have the higher ceiling and be more valuable/singular to the Rangers...And we know how Renney views Hossa's potential..

But the two most important reasons are..

3) We have several young players very simialr to Prucha (Dawes, Cally, and others on the way) ready or very near ready...Not yet so with Hossa...

4) Prucha has had two good scoring years and should have a higher trade value then Hossa and, as discussed elsewhere on the board, Ranger management, while not throwing away the future, is clearing gunning for a cup over the next year or two. To do that, I think Ranger management realizes it still needs to upgrade on D where a valuable chip like Prucha could be more helpful then Hossa in getting it..

In all honsety though, I would like to keep BOTH Prucha AND HOSSA and trade Cullen and his salary..You never know..
Completely agreed, LM. And if I may add something - I think people who analyze the players in question completely ignore how well Hossa played on the bottom lines (contributing to his promotion) before he wound up on the first line.

By the way, don't get me wrong - I love Prucha. I'm posting to defend Hossa.

I'd rather see both retained and lose some other players.

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Old
07-13-2007, 08:39 AM
  #32
nyr7andcounting
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
why would you ignore the PP when calculating it for Jagr though? since he plays with both those guys in his unit. it obviously effects his numbers. the reason i took it off of Pruchas numbers is he doesnt play with his regular linemates on the PP.


and yes, although straka didnt play the entire season with jagr, hossa didnt play the entire season with jagr, etc. all the numbers attributed to playing hossa w/ jagr are actualling being tacked on to Pruchas numbers, so if anything, they hurt him more than it helps jagr.

also, im not trying to say prucha was as productive as jagr, im trying to say, when compared to what linemates they had, there is a comparable level of production. clearly the style of play has to be taken into account. Prucha simply doesnt play with any playmakers at all. Every, single, one, of his linemates is a me-first player. looking for the shot first. and Prucha just isnt good enough (like jagr) to create on his own. hes a great finisher, but a TERRIBLE creator. imho, you put prucha on the first line, and dont take him off there after 2 periods like Renney ALWAYS does, and give him consistent time there, he nets 35 goals EASY.
Because if we don't include PP for one, we can't include it for the other. Otherwise it's not a real comparison. Besides, PP points inflate a players production I think. To see how good of an offensive player they are you really need to look at even strength.

Anyway, I agree that if Prucha was put on a line with Jagr and I guess Gomez, he'd score 35 goals. But what winger wouldn't? We could just as easily play a guy like Hossa on that line and he'd produce while playing a more well-rounded game than Prucha.

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Old
07-13-2007, 09:46 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
I really wouldnt be opposed to seeing Prucha play with Gomez this year.
I'd love to see Pru opposite Jagr on the 1st line for even just 10 games as an experiment. Straka can carry the puck, but the 1st line will already have Gomez who can do that. Plus is his shoulder going to be 100% healthy enough to shoot the puck the way he normally can when he first gets back?

I'd instead have Straka as the puck carrier on the 2nd line and put Prucha on the 1st. Give him 10-15 games and see what he can do with a legitimate playmaking center on his line. If the experiment fails, fine... but I could just as easily see him exploding.

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Old
07-13-2007, 10:08 AM
  #34
n_a_c
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpuck View Post
I'd love to see Pru opposite Jagr on the 1st line for even just 10 games as an experiment. Straka can carry the puck, but the 1st line will already have Gomez who can do that. Plus is his shoulder going to be 100% healthy enough to shoot the puck the way he normally can when he first gets back?

I'd instead have Straka as the puck carrier on the 2nd line and put Prucha on the 1st. Give him 10-15 games and see what he can do with a legitimate playmaking center on his line. If the experiment fails, fine... but I could just as easily see him exploding.

Excellent idea. I had penciled in my head
Straka - Gomez - Jagr
Prucha - Drury - Shanahan

But changing Straka with Prucha could balance out the puck holding & passing talent on the two lines. I donít know Drury well enough - but in the lines above I believe everyone on the first line is a better puck carrier and passer than anyone on the second.

So I agree it should be the below. Or at least tried for a while.
Prucha - Gomez - Jagr
Straka - Drury - Shanahan

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Old
07-13-2007, 10:11 AM
  #35
nyr2k2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Melnyk View Post
Boo hoo. ....poor Petr Prucha and his mishandling....When will people realize that a decent portion of his limited ice time was becasue of his inconsistenices on the defensvie end and occasional lacadaisacal back checking...That's where his inconsistencies are..I do not question his scoring or his heart/guts and I also think, as a young player, he will get everything topgether with time...But, like Hossa, he is still earning to be a comnplete and consistent player...And his scoring makes him a valuabe trading chip..
I cry over his mishandling knowing damn well that it was in response to inconsistent play and poor backchecking. It just irks me that half of the other players on our team were allowed to play equally inconsistent and lackadaisical without much penalty in terms of ice time reduction. Just seemed to me like Renney held him to a different standard.

To answer the actual thread question, I'd say a third rounder would be fair for Hossa.

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Old
07-13-2007, 12:31 PM
  #36
klingsor
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I dunno, If I were a rival GM I'd wait till the Rangers actually sign Hossa (be it before or after a possible arbitration hearing).

I wouldn't be so anxious to trade for a player whose contract is not set.

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Old
07-13-2007, 12:37 PM
  #37
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Guys can I ask a question here? The guy played maybe 5-8 games where he showed offensive skills. The rest of his career people have ben questioning why he sucks. He doesn't hit or score enough to be valuable. The guy to me is not a million dollar player. I would take a 3rd for him

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Old
07-13-2007, 12:44 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n_a_c View Post
So I agree it should be the below. Or at least tried for a while.
Prucha - Gomez - Jagr
Straka - Drury - Shanahan
I would kill to see these lines. Hey, if it doesn't work out you can always change them. Prucha on the first again will be fun to watch, and I think Straka Drury Shanahan will have very good chemistry. All three are pretty gritty, work-their-ass off type players that play to win. Oh please Renney, please

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07-13-2007, 12:48 PM
  #39
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I think Hossa can possibly garner a 2nd.

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Old
07-13-2007, 01:57 PM
  #40
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I'd keep prucha becaus ehe isn't making any money !!! Why are we evn considering trading him ? The question shouldn't be whether or not Hossa's better than Prucha, the real question is do we keep Hossa or not. I say that he should be kept because he had a really good end of the season when on Jgr's line. He seems to be the type of player that is only good when he plays with good players. I'd put Straka on the 3rd line. that way we would have the best 3 line sin the NHL

Hossa-Gomez-Jagr

Avery-Drury-Shanahan

Straka-Cullen-Callahan

and throw Prucha on the 4th line and he'll skate like a Kamikazi every chance he gets.

Prucha-Betts-Dawes

and Hollwegg and Orr whenevr you know you'll needd a tough guy in the lineup

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Old
07-13-2007, 02:30 PM
  #41
MidnightRanger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post

im wondering, since atlanta needs some offensive help with all the losses theyve suffered this year, if we could package him, and a 2nd for a first rounder.
If they didn't have the gm that they have I would laugh at this harder

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Old
07-13-2007, 05:47 PM
  #42
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All you folks looking to give Jessiman time to develop....take a look at Hossa. Not as physically imposing in height...but a large forward none the less....who has actually shown improvement and has more skill than Huge Specimen in his left nut alone. See what we have in this guy before shipping him out! He looked good begfore the injury....give him the first 25 games to prove it wasn't a fluke.

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