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Will the PK suffer with Orty gone?

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Old
07-16-2007, 04:08 PM
  #51
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nylander and jagr weren't killing penalties in game 5. i'm not saying they did. but with ortmeyer on the ice in the final minute in game 5 who knows, we could go back to the garden with a 3 2 lead. maybe even have won the cup. i am well aware that there is an assistant coach on the team. and i know that they all have brains but that doesn't mean they will be as good. straka has a brain, i guess that means that he can be as good as jagr. and we may have someone to take ortmeyers spot on the penalty kill but he is one role player who can never be replaced. "No body works harder than jed ortmeyer" mark messier. "ortmeyer is a future captain" jd

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07-16-2007, 04:11 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
Role players can always be found in a solid system, which the Rangers have now. They let Ortmeyer go because he IS replaceable. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see one of the Hartford boys out there this season gritting it out, blocking shots, and having a bit better touch around the net.....that's what makes a team solid...the ability to replace and upgrade some from within. I liked Jed as much as the next guy....but if this team is a serious contender, its exactly the type of player he is that is most vulnerable to being replaced from within the organization. I think Renney and Schoenfeld have a clue, and let Jed go for a reason without trying to keep him.
what hartford boy are you talking about? i want to know. becasue it seems to me our roster is going to be full. unless you scratch hollweg or orr. and that includes the potential signings of avery and hossa.

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07-16-2007, 06:57 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
what hartford boy are you talking about? i want to know. becasue it seems to me our roster is going to be full. unless you scratch hollweg or orr. and that includes the potential signings of avery and hossa.
I don't think Hollweg or Orr is guaranted anything right now! But they were both cheaper to keep than Jed. Strudwick is capable of playing defense or winger on the 4th line...if its a question of toughness on occasion. I think Both Orr and Hollweg have alot to prove this camp. I'm sure the usual suspects will get an opportunity to outplay guys like Hollweg and Orr! Of the 2 I think Hollweg is the most vulnerable, he takes WAY too many penalties, and his offense has never really developed..though quite a few people thought it would....like I said, I loved Jed....if he wieghed 200 lbs....175 of it was heart and hustle, that being said...training camp should be VERY competitive when it comes to those 4th line spots... I won't make any predictions...I thought a couple of people played well in pre season and were never given the opportunity to prove them selves and put in a position to succeed once the season started last year. That's all water under the bridge now....the top Hartford boys should push REAL hard for spots on this team and make for alot of tough decisions on that 4th line before camp is over!

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07-16-2007, 07:33 PM
  #54
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so you still haven't given me a name. all you can say is strudwick might become a winger (not going to happen if guys from hartford are coming up like you said) and i am not saying hollweg and orr are the best players either. all i'm saying is you are saying hartford guys are going to come up and i am saying not this year. staal will be up but thats all. if somebody like dawes comes up he has already proven he isn't ready. training camp could be very competitive like you said but besides staal who is really ready? and you say that who ever it is, is going to score short handed goals? and pre season hockey is not the same as regular season. we all know that. bottom line is hollweg and orr have been in the lineup and with a deep roster not including anyone from the minors i would be suprised to see anyone come up and stay through november. why are we talking about this anyway this is an ortmeyer thread?

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07-16-2007, 08:30 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
you've been a ranger fan for 20 years congratulations. jed may not put points on the board but besides jagr and henrik the best part of the last two seasons was the penalty kill. ortmeyer always stood out. he provides energy, hits and the heart that the fans loved, except you i guess. we will not see shots blocked like that this year. and what was the reason that we made a second half surge. i will give it to you ortmeyer coming back and avery. whether you like it or not we let one of our best players go.
Orts was one of our best players?!?! Henrik, Jagr and Orts. Who doesn't belong in that group?

I don't know if it is possible to overrate a player any more than you are doing for Orts. He was at best a decent penalty killer who offered absolutely nothing else. The fans like anyone who 'looks' like they are trying but everyone on the ice is trying. Who the fans cheer is irrelevant. They cheer Orr more than Orts. Does that make Orr really valuable too?

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07-16-2007, 09:29 PM
  #56
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I think Ortmeyers effort and energy will be missed by his teammates but in reality they aren't really in bad shape. Betts, Cullen, Drury,Gomez, Hossa, Avery, and Shanny when in a pinch isn't a bad group for a PK. I would think that it's enough to keep us around the top 10 in the league.

As far as his replacement goes I think it woulda been nice to have kept Isbister around for the fourth line but without him it's probably going to be Betts with Hollweg and Hossa. 1 of Moore and Byers will see some time and Orr will slide in when there is a need for his presence. I really don't see what everyone is getting bent about. We'll miss Jed's character but it's not like the PK-or team chemistry in general0 is going to spiral out of control without him.

ps- if it happens to do so for some length of time anyhow- I doubt his presence would be enough to correct it.

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07-16-2007, 10:24 PM
  #57
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Orts was one of our best players?!?! Henrik, Jagr and Orts. Who doesn't belong in that group?

I don't know if it is possible to overrate a player any more than you are doing for Orts. He was at best a decent penalty killer who offered absolutely nothing else. The fans like anyone who 'looks' like they are trying but everyone on the ice is trying. Who the fans cheer is irrelevant. They cheer Orr more than Orts. Does that make Orr really valuable too?
where are you coming from with orr? if you look at my other posts i say he is not in the top 5 but was one of our best players. and by the way he wasn't a decent penalty killer he was the best penalty killer weve had. "they cheer for orr more than orts" what a bad response. you have lost any argument you will ever make with that point. terrible!!!!!!!!!

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07-16-2007, 10:31 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JamesG1221 View Post
I think Ortmeyers effort and energy will be missed by his teammates but in reality they aren't really in bad shape. Betts, Cullen, Drury,Gomez, Hossa, Avery, and Shanny when in a pinch isn't a bad group for a PK. I would think that it's enough to keep us around the top 10 in the league.

As far as his replacement goes I think it woulda been nice to have kept Isbister around for the fourth line but without him it's probably going to be Betts with Hollweg and Hossa. 1 of Moore and Byers will see some time and Orr will slide in when there is a need for his presence. I really don't see what everyone is getting bent about. We'll miss Jed's character but it's not like the PK-or team chemistry in general0 is going to spiral out of control without him.

ps- if it happens to do so for some length of time anyhow- I doubt his presence would be enough to correct it.
gomez is not a penalty killer and never has been!!!! hossa and shanny won't be killing penalties. you will see shanny out there with less than 30 seconds left waiting for time to expire. its going to be cullen avery and betts for sure. not sure yet about drury, or who the other guy will be. and i'm not saying we are in terrible shape, i agree with you that we will be in at least the top ten it won't be the same. you will see slap shots from the point get through so many more times than last year.

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07-16-2007, 10:38 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
gomez is not a penalty killer and never has been!!!! hossa and shanny won't be killing penalties. you will see shanny out there with less than 30 seconds left waiting for time to expire. its going to be cullen avery and betts for sure. not sure yet about drury, or who the other guy will be. and i'm not saying we are in terrible shape, i agree with you that we will be in at least the top ten it won't be the same. you will see slap shots from the point get through so many more times than last year.





As I said. Having Shanny on the bench is a nice thing to have if in a pinch. He wont see regular time but worst case scenario he's there. Drury will be fine.

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07-16-2007, 10:41 PM
  #60
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Hossa doesn't kill penalties? What team do you watch? He's one of our better penalty killing forwards easily. Shanny will be on the PK, even if it's only the 2nd unit on occasion and Drury will most definitely be on the PK. He has been since he came into the league.

The PK is a system that works with strong positional play and the occasional blocked shot. Most players are more than willing to block shots nowadays. Jed is nothing special at all and I'm glad he's off the roster honestly.

As for Hollweg and Orr, they could both go for all I care. Both are pretty useless. If I had to keep one though it'd be Colton Orr just because he can fight. Hopefully Moore, Korpedo, et al make a strong impression at camp and force the Rangers to completely revamp the 4th line.

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07-17-2007, 04:54 AM
  #61
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dude stop talking. hossa is not one of our better penalty killers. even if you hate ortmeyer. he was good but i can think of better guys. avery, betts drury and if cullen were still here


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07-17-2007, 05:40 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
all i can say to that is you and everyone that is ok with letting ortmeyer go don't understand the importance of role players. i can understand your point that he might not be a top 5 player but without question he is in the top 10. and i'm talking 6 or 7. seventh in the league in blocked shots and sixth on the team with hits in only half of a season. he made everybody on that pk play better. betts goes down to block shots because he sees ortmeyer block a handful every shift. can you honestly say that you wanted jagr and nylander on the ice at the end of game five vs the sabres? i measure how great a player is not by how many points he has but by what he brings to the team. whether he is a goalie, goal scorer or a penalty killer.
In no particular order:

1) Jagr
2) Gomez
3) Drury
4) Straka
5) Lundqvist
6) Roszival
7) Tyutin

I could add more but you said certainly in the top 6 or 7, and I implore you tell me which one of those names should come off the list of the Rangers best players to add Ortmeyer. The bottom line is Jed was not one of our top players. He just simply wasn't. That doesn't mean he didn't serve a role or purpose. But we have a bunch of guys coming up through the system, and many of them will be better then Jed. That's just the way it is.

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07-17-2007, 05:42 AM
  #63
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Yet how many times did you see Orts block a dangerous looking shot from the point, someone clears it, at home, and get the crowd mad into the game. The guy had something special with his dedication.

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07-17-2007, 06:33 AM
  #64
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where are you coming from with orr? if you look at my other posts i say he is not in the top 5 but was one of our best players. and by the way he wasn't a decent penalty killer he was the best penalty killer weve had. "they cheer for orr more than orts" what a bad response. you have lost any argument you will ever make with that point. terrible!!!!!!!!!
You said Orts was one of our best players. I didn't say that, you did. Maybe you just don't understand the concept of what "one of our best players" is. Being the ninth most important forward (if he was that) does not qualify one as one of our best players.

Get a grip about Orts. He's not even an especially good defensive forward. Pandolfo and Madden both dwarf him in that category. They must be hockey gods.

I'm guessing that you are young and a huge Orts fan and are just disappointed.

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07-17-2007, 08:12 AM
  #65
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He's not even an especially good defensive forward. Pandolfo and Madden both dwarf him in that category. They must be hockey gods.
We don't have Pandolfo or Madden. I doubt we will soon or ever. It is important to understand that although Ort in no Jagr, HE IS BETTER (LET ALONE OTHERS) THAN JAGR WHEN IT COMES TO PK.
The reason NYR let him go was his illness. Sather had too many sick players during his tenure here. The guy on blood thinners all the time is not what you want for your shot blocker. I'm surprised Nashville took a chance.

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07-17-2007, 08:19 AM
  #66
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I think he was let go due to him being marginalized. He was a commodity. He killed penalties - and that's about all he was above average doing. Further, Renney seemed more content having Shanny out there than Ortmeyer, so expect Shanny, Drury and Gomez to log more than their fair share of PK ice time, along with Betts and Cullen.

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07-17-2007, 09:17 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
so you still haven't given me a name. all you can say is strudwick might become a winger (not going to happen if guys from hartford are coming up like you said) and i am not saying hollweg and orr are the best players either. all i'm saying is you are saying hartford guys are going to come up and i am saying not this year. staal will be up but thats all. if somebody like dawes comes up he has already proven he isn't ready. training camp could be very competitive like you said but besides staal who is really ready? and you say that who ever it is, is going to score short handed goals? and pre season hockey is not the same as regular season. we all know that. bottom line is hollweg and orr have been in the lineup and with a deep roster not including anyone from the minors i would be suprised to see anyone come up and stay through november. why are we talking about this anyway this is an ortmeyer thread?
Dude....you need to read these posts before you reply, and proofread your replys too. Who said anything about short handed goals, and I specifically didn't mention names because I thought a couple of players INCLUDING Dawes...had really good camps, but they were forgotten once the season began and given no real chance to succeed. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dawes have an excellent camp again.....but 4th line minutes are not going to do him any favors. Dubi may surprise this camp...I'll wait and see before i make any rash decisions or comments....the point is JED ORTMEYER is completely replaceable on the ice....though maybe not in some fans hearts.

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07-17-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I think he was let go due to him being marginalized. He was a commodity. He killed penalties - and that's about all he was above average doing. Further, Renney seemed more content having Shanny out there than Ortmeyer, so expect Shanny, Drury and Gomez to log more than their fair share of PK ice time, along with Betts and Cullen.
Renney needs two PK forward sets. Who are those 6 players?

What would make ANYONE think that Drury is better PKiller than Ort? The ability to score? It is not what PK unit is expected to do. It doesn't matter that Ort cannot shoot the puck. No question 5-on-5 Drury is miles away better defensive forward then Ortmeyer, but Ortmeyer is BY FAR better PK forward than Drury.

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07-17-2007, 11:05 AM
  #69
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Well, they just lost another PK forwards in Cullen.

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07-17-2007, 11:21 AM
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Well the PK will suffer even more without Cullen now.

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07-17-2007, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
dude stop talking. hossa is not one of our better penalty killers. even if you hate ortmeyer.

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07-17-2007, 03:13 PM
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Well, they just lost another PK forwards in Cullen.
I think Cullen was there to provide shorthanded goal threat. Most of the job was done by the other three. Drury a valid replacement for him, he is, in fact, an upgrade over Matt. Ort departure is not addressed, and may not be later, unless someone is called up or signed. Ort is not irreplaceable. He is just not easy to get replaced.

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07-17-2007, 03:30 PM
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Are you forgetting Callahan? He was Hartfords #1 PK guy before his call up. 5 SH goals and never scored on...........Renney only used him SH at the end of shifts to gain some experience............I think he can fill a spot.........I loved him in Guelph 8SH goals his last season here.

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07-17-2007, 03:38 PM
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Are you forgetting Callahan? He was Hartfords #1 PK guy before his call up. 5 SH goals and never scored on...........Renney only used him SH at the end of shifts to gain some experience............I think he can fill a spot.........I loved him in Guelph 8SH goals his last season here.
Excellent point. Callahan would be a good PK player.

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07-17-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
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Are you forgetting Callahan? He was Hartfords #1 PK guy before his call up. 5 SH goals and never scored on...........Renney only used him SH at the end of shifts to gain some experience............I think he can fill a spot.........I loved him in Guelph 8SH goals his last season here.
I agree. Renney seemed to not want to use Callahan to kill penalties because he was new to the team and every goal against was huge at the time. I think he'll get sparing PK time to start and gradually earn more as the season wears on.

Our top 6 PKers in the playoffs last year were Betts, Avery, Shanahan, Straka, Cullen, and Ortmeyer. They were the only forwards that averaged more than 2 minutes of PK time per game. So Cullen and Ortmeyer are gone, and most want Shanny's PK time reduced. That's not a huge problem when we have Drury, Hossa, and Callahan to fill those holes. The PK will be fine.

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