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Will the PK suffer with Orty gone?

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Old
07-17-2007, 06:14 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
In no particular order:

1) Jagr
2) Gomez
3) Drury
4) Straka
5) Lundqvist
6) Roszival
7) Tyutin

I could add more but you said certainly in the top 6 or 7, and I implore you tell me which one of those names should come off the list of the Rangers best players to add Ortmeyer. The bottom line is Jed was not one of our top players. He just simply wasn't. That doesn't mean he didn't serve a role or purpose. But we have a bunch of guys coming up through the system, and many of them will be better then Jed. That's just the way it is.
dumb dumb dumb. did ortmeyer ever play on the same team as drury and gomez? why not add nylander to that list then! i'm talking about the last 2 seasons and your bringing in guys that we signed 2 weeks ago.


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07-17-2007, 06:17 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
You said Orts was one of our best players. I didn't say that, you did. Maybe you just don't understand the concept of what "one of our best players" is. Being the ninth most important forward (if he was that) does not qualify one as one of our best players.

Get a grip about Orts. He's not even an especially good defensive forward. Pandolfo and Madden both dwarf him in that category. They must be hockey gods.

I'm guessing that you are young and a huge Orts fan and are just disappointed.

why are you comparing guys on different teams? did i say hes a hall of famer? no but he was a crucial part of our team. my guess is you are old and a closet devil fan.

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07-17-2007, 06:28 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
Dude....you need to read these posts before you reply, and proofread your replys too. Who said anything about short handed goals, and I specifically didn't mention names because I thought a couple of players INCLUDING Dawes...had really good camps, but they were forgotten once the season began and given no real chance to succeed. I wouldn't be surprised to see Dawes have an excellent camp again.....but 4th line minutes are not going to do him any favors. Dubi may surprise this camp...I'll wait and see before i make any rash decisions or comments....the point is JED ORTMEYER is completely replaceable on the ice....though maybe not in some fans hearts.
you said you wouldn't be suprised to see hartford boys come up block shots grit it out and add some kind of scoring touch around the net. and the only other name you have given me besides the one i gave you is dubinsky. and you have said he may suprise us. you are already backing off your statement by saying i'll wait and see before i make any rash decisions or comments. thats like saying he will suprise us but maybe not. leaving us nowehere. not to get off topic but if ortmeyer is completley replaceable, why don't i see you ask for a trade to get rid of betts? he's done little more than ortmeyer and hes a penalty killer, according to your comments we should do fine without him two. then we can bring in your precious nigel dawes.

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07-17-2007, 06:37 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Renney needs two PK forward sets. Who are those 6 players?

What would make ANYONE think that Drury is better PKiller than Ort? The ability to score? It is not what PK unit is expected to do. It doesn't matter that Ort cannot shoot the puck. No question 5-on-5 Drury is miles away better defensive forward then Ortmeyer, but Ortmeyer is BY FAR better PK forward than Drury.
the waiting is over. somebody finally gets it. all of a sudden short handed goals and goals on the third or fourth line is what has stopped us from making it further in the playoffs. i think a lot of these guys are to hyped about drury and gomez. don't get me wrong i love the signings especially drury but so many people are saying gomez is going to kill penalties. drury probably will especially now that cullen is gone but gomez no.

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07-17-2007, 07:09 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
you said you wouldn't be suprised to see hartford boys come up block shots grit it out and add some kind of scoring touch around the net. and the only other name you have given me besides the one i gave you is dubinsky. and you have said he may suprise us. you are already backing off your statement by saying i'll wait and see before i make any rash decisions or comments. thats like saying he will suprise us but maybe not. leaving us nowehere. not to get off topic but if ortmeyer is completley replaceable, why don't i see you ask for a trade to get rid of betts? he's done little more than ortmeyer and hes a penalty killer, according to your comments we should do fine without him two. then we can bring in your precious nigel dawes.
Look....Ortmeyer is gone....GET OVER IT! GO CRY in your milk and cookies already! He WILL be REPLACED by one of the kids from Hartford....and you will STILL be CRYING for Ortmeyer if they win a cup. I've tried to be rational with you...you just want to be a smart ass... and berate everyone for not being brought to tears that Ortmeyer wasn't retained! You are too irrational to deal with . No one ASKED for Ortmeyer to leave, he signed with another team for more than what the Rangers were willing to offer! What don't you get about that? ANd he wasn't the glue that holds the NY Rangers together...contrary to popular belief...the sun IS coming out tomorrow! As far as Betts goes.....why would I want him gone? He is a solid 4th and sometimes third line player, and does decently on faceoffs!

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07-17-2007, 07:29 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
Look....Ortmeyer is gone....GET OVER IT! GO CRY in your milk and cookies already! He WILL be REPLACED by one of the kids from Hartford....and you will STILL be CRYING for Ortmeyer if they win a cup. I've tried to be rational with you...you just want to be a smart ass... and berate everyone for not being brought to tears that Ortmeyer wasn't retained! You are too irrational to deal with . No one ASKED for Ortmeyer to leave, he signed with another team for more than what the Rangers were willing to offer! What don't you get about that? ANd he wasn't the glue that holds the NY Rangers together...contrary to popular belief...the sun IS coming out tomorrow! As far as Betts goes.....why would I want him gone? He is a solid 4th and sometimes third line player, and does decently on faceoffs!
wow i didn't know i was talking to a 13 year old girl. my goal wasn't to offend you. and i'm not crying over milk and cookies loser. all i'm saying to you for the last time is he was a huge part of the team and no body seemed to want him gone during the year. but everyone seems so happy that he is gone now. you sound like a fan of the rangers when they win and hate them when they lose. now my point with betts was you want to keep him for the reasons that you stated as do i, but why would you be HAPPY with letting our best pker go. i have givin you point after point with why we should have kept him and all you have given me is he is replaceable and milk and cookies. you are a tool and don't come back at me with anything less than chicken wings. milk and cookies what were you thinking? i am embarrased for you.

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07-17-2007, 07:32 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Renney needs two PK forward sets. Who are those 6 players?

What would make ANYONE think that Drury is better PKiller than Ort? The ability to score? It is not what PK unit is expected to do. It doesn't matter that Ort cannot shoot the puck. No question 5-on-5 Drury is miles away better defensive forward then Ortmeyer, but Ortmeyer is BY FAR better PK forward than Drury.
Ehm... In a word, no.

Drury, if anything, is overrated defensively at ES.

On the PK though, he's just plain great. And not cos of the 3 SH goals from last season, don't hope too much for that, he doesn't have the wheels to skate away from players like say Vermette or Fisher. Or Cullen.

But defensively on the PK? I know Ortmeyer was great for the Rangers... But if you think Drury's any worse than him, you're in for a suprise.
Even more so when you say Ortmeyer is BY FAR better on the PK than Drury.
Ortmeyer's rep as a PKer is enhanced (IMO) cos that's really all he brings to his team. Drury does a LOT of things at a high level, so some tend to get underrated, some overrated.

5-on-3... Dru's the guy you want out there. And 5-on-4, though then it's not as obvious what a great job he does.

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07-17-2007, 07:38 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
wow i didn't know i was talking to a 13 year old girl. my goal wasn't to offend you. and i'm not crying over milk and cookies loser. all i'm saying to you for the last time is he was a huge part of the team and no body seemed to want him gone during the year. but everyone seems so happy that he is gone now. you sound like a fan of the rangers when they win and hate them when they lose. now my point with betts was you want to keep him for the reasons that you stated as do i, but why would you be HAPPY with letting our best pker go. i have givin you point after point with why we should have kept him and all you have given me is he is replaceable and milk and cookies. you are a tool and don't come back at me with anything less than chicken wings. milk and cookies what were you thinking? i am embarrased for you.
Listen kid.. I was a Ranger fan since before you were born. This is usually a pretty sane forum....but lately it seems to be going downhill! NO ONE..I REPEAT...NO ONE to my knowledge is HAPPY that ORTS is gone....but many of us here appreciate the direction this organization is trying to go in...and the fact that they appear to be setting the groundwork for the future....Orts was a lunch pail guy...I admire him alot, I really do...but he is in no way vital to the success of this organization any longer...and it was his choice to sign elsewhere for more money and probably a better chance of playing. There was a time when Orts stood out so much because this team had a bunch of slackers on it...thats not the case anymore, and you should be happy knowing that he was looked at as the epitome of an overachiever while he was here, and his efforts were not unnoticed in the organization! What else do you want me to do here.....win a war...sing an opera....sweat garlic...what gives?

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07-17-2007, 07:59 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by bleedrngrblue View Post
Listen kid.. I was a Ranger fan since before you were born. This is usually a pretty sane forum....but lately it seems to be going downhill! NO ONE..I REPEAT...NO ONE to my knowledge is HAPPY that ORTS is gone....but many of us here appreciate the direction this organization is trying to go in...and the fact that they appear to be setting the groundwork for the future....Orts was a lunch pail guy...I admire him alot, I really do...but he is in no way vital to the success of this organization any longer...and it was his choice to sign elsewhere for more money and probably a better chance of playing. There was a time when Orts stood out so much because this team had a bunch of slackers on it...thats not the case anymore, and you should be happy knowing that he was looked at as the epitome of an overachiever while he was here, and his efforts were not unnoticed in the organization! What else do you want me to do here.....win a war...sing an opera....sweat garlic...what gives?
sweat garlic... you should get that checked out. and by the way people in this thread especially on page one are in love with the fact that he is gone. look at my first post on this thread. the thought that you might have been a ranger fan since before i was born means nothing. it has no point. here is the bottom line about ortmeyer: he was the heart of that pk and he had a huge part in transforming the team. i'm not going to sit here like other people and knock him now that he is gone. what i am not happy about is people not giving him the credit he deserves. i keep thinking to myself everyday what would have happened at the end of game five if he was on the ice instead of jagr and nylander. we could have won the cup last year. i dare anyone to say they didn't want him on the ice at that time. if he was the guy were thinking should have been out there and if hes the guy were thinking could have changed the outcome of the east and maybe even the finals if we made it that far, than he was someone worth keeping and someone worthy of of our appreciation. so sing in your opera ive won the war.

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07-17-2007, 08:03 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
sweat garlic... you should get that checked out. and by the way people in this thread especially on page one are in love with the fact that he is gone. look at my first post on this thread. the thought that you might have been a ranger fan since before i was born means nothing. it has no point. here is the bottom line about ortmeyer: he was the heart of that pk and he had a huge part in transforming the team. i'm not going to sit here like other people and knock him now that he is gone. what i am not happy about is people not giving him the credit he deserves. i keep thinking to myself everyday what would have happened at the end of game five if he was on the ice instead of jagr and nylander. we could have won the cup last year. i dare anyone to say they didn't want him on the ice at that time. if he was the guy were thinking should have been out there and if hes the guy were thinking could have changed the outcome of the east and maybe even the finals if we made it that far, than he was someone worth keeping and someone worthy of of our appreciation. so sing in your opera ive won the war.
Sweating Garlic is a cooking term...it requires close monitoring so as not to burn it.....I don't need to get that checked out.

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07-18-2007, 08:45 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
why are you comparing guys on different teams? did i say hes a hall of famer? no but he was a crucial part of our team. my guess is you are old and a closet devil fan.
Again, YOU said he was one of our best players. When called on it you couldn't defend this opinion. Instead you changed the discussion to things like "did i say hes a hall of famer?".

No, you didn't. No one said you did.

Yes, I'm sure I'm older than you. Being real young is a great thing but even when I was a teenager I would have understood that Orts was not of the best players on any NHL team. Someday you will realize that because you like a player or appreciate his efforts does not make him an outstanding player.

My first favorite player was Phil Goyette. I assume you never heard of him. I loved watching him play but understood that he wasn't a great player, although he actually was one of the best Rangers at that time.

Calling me a closet Devils fan is a comment I might expect in the schoolyard when I was 12. Try and stay on topic.


I appreciate your enthusiasm for a player you obviously cared a lot about but if you are going to make truly outlandish statements you have to expect comments on it.

Orts was a good (not great) penalty killer. He was an excellent shot blocker. He had no other NHL caliber skills.

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07-18-2007, 01:32 PM
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Again, YOU said he was one of our best players. When called on it you couldn't defend this opinion. Instead you changed the discussion to things like "did i say hes a hall of famer?".

No, you didn't. No one said you did.

Yes, I'm sure I'm older than you. Being real young is a great thing but even when I was a teenager I would have understood that Orts was not of the best players on any NHL team. Someday you will realize that because you like a player or appreciate his efforts does not make him an outstanding player.

My first favorite player was Phil Goyette. I assume you never heard of him. I loved watching him play but understood that he wasn't a great player, although he actually was one of the best Rangers at that time.

Calling me a closet Devils fan is a comment I might expect in the schoolyard when I was 12. Try and stay on topic.


I appreciate your enthusiasm for a player you obviously cared a lot about but if you are going to make truly outlandish statements you have to expect comments on it.

Orts was a good (not great) penalty killer. He was an excellent shot blocker. He had no other NHL caliber skills.
here it is 1. jagr. 2 henrik. 3 shanny. 4 avery. 5 nylander. 6 rozsival. 7 ortmeyer. if you say straka belongs on there i agree with you he would be number 8. keep in mind straka gets hot and then has a big cool down period. if you want me to stay on topic where did you get pandalfo and madden from. they aren't even rangers and no one has compared ortmeyer to any devil, or to anyone on any other team except you. thats where the whole hall of famer thing came from because you compared him to "HOCKEY GODS."who are you going to compare him to next, gretzky? and you are wrong, ortmeyer was a great penalty killer. and i have heard of phil goyette. number 20 two 20 goal seasons, traded to the blues in 69 and came back for a season in the seventies. just because your older doesn't mean you know more about rangers history than anyone. i'm not saying i know everything but the whole "your young" comment is getting ridiculous. i'm sure your older than tom renny. i guess that means you can coach better. if someone were to start a thread and people started knocking goyette saying he meant nothing to the team and underrated him i would expect you to agree with everything that they say.

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07-18-2007, 02:06 PM
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But defensively on the PK? I know Ortmeyer was great for the Rangers... But if you think Drury's any worse than him, you're in for a suprise.
Even more so when you say Ortmeyer is BY FAR better on the PK than Drury.
Ortmeyer's rep as a PKer is enhanced (IMO) cos that's really all he brings to his team. Drury does a LOT of things at a high level, so some tend to get underrated, some overrated.
Hes hit in on the head. Lets move on Orts is gone.

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07-18-2007, 02:27 PM
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Hes hit in on the head. Lets move on Orts is gone.
this is an ortmeyer thread. you don't have to post anything.

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07-18-2007, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
here it is 1. jagr. 2 henrik. 3 shanny. 4 avery. 5 nylander. 6 rozsival. 7 ortmeyer. if you say straka belongs on there i agree with you he would be number 8. keep in mind straka gets hot and then has a big cool down period. if you want me to stay on topic where did you get pandalfo and madden from. they aren't even rangers and no one has compared ortmeyer to any devil, or to anyone on any other team except you. thats where the whole hall of famer thing came from because you compared him to "HOCKEY GODS."who are you going to compare him to next, gretzky? and you are wrong, ortmeyer was a great penalty killer. and i have heard of phil goyette. number 20 two 20 goal seasons, traded to the blues in 69 and came back for a season in the seventies. just because your older doesn't mean you know more about rangers history than anyone. i'm not saying i know everything but the whole "your young" comment is getting ridiculous. i'm sure your older than tom renny. i guess that means you can coach better. if someone were to start a thread and people started knocking goyette saying he meant nothing to the team and underrated him i would expect you to agree with everything that they say.
You're right. The old vs. young thing is irrelevant. The fact that that you believe Orts was even close to Straka in importance or ability is enough for me to not take you seriously. By the way, Girardi and Callahan were both far more important than Orts. You don't seem to understand the relative value of players.

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07-18-2007, 03:22 PM
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You're right. The old vs. young thing is irrelevant. The fact that that you believe Orts was even close to Straka in importance or ability is enough for me to not take you seriously. By the way, Girardi and Callahan were both far more important than Orts. You don't seem to understand the relative value of players.
thats fine i stopped taking you seriously when you brought up the devils. i would have put tyutin on before girardi and cullen before callahan. hell i would have put prucha on before callahan and down the stretch i would have put hossa in front of callahan. with ortmeyer you get consistency you know what to expect from him. straka will get hot for 2 weeks out of the year and then all of a sudden ice cold. he had 22 goals on the year. he would score 6 one week 5 in another and then spread out the difference throught the rest of the year. and this is a guy who gets power play time and plays with jagr or shanny. how many times was someone else playing on that first line? even isbister played there. not that consistent is my point and thats why i bumped him down. if he was playing on the first line every night and wasn't as streaky goal scoring wise i would agree with you. he would be number 7 jed number 8. but that isn't the case. not everyone has to score to be important. that wasn't ortmeyers role. if we lost a 1 goal game no body says where was ortmeyer. but in a game where we take 7-10 penalties and kill off all of them it comes back to the penalty kill. and who was our best pker ortmeyer. we never won any games in the playoffs because of straka. there were a bunch of times against buffalo the kill came up big especially in game 3. they give up more than one goal on the kill we lose that game. not to mention that the refs were screwing us on penalties and they were out there so many times. you may look at things differently but i like consistency and clutch performances. thats what ortmeyer gave us especially on the pk.


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07-18-2007, 03:34 PM
  #92
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dumb dumb dumb. did ortmeyer ever play on the same team as drury and gomez? why not add nylander to that list then! i'm talking about the last 2 seasons and your bringing in guys that we signed 2 weeks ago.
Obviously you are a little kid so I'm not going to argue with you or call you names. I listed those 7 players because those are the best players on our current team. If you want me to remove drury and gomez and replace them with nylander and avery or prucha (both of whom are better than ortmeyer) I would be happy to do so. Bottom line is that on last years, this years, or next years team jed ortmeyer is not one of the best 7 players.

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07-18-2007, 04:10 PM
  #93
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straka would be number 7 jed number 8. but that isn't the case. not everyone has to score to be important. that wasn't ortmeyers role. if we lost a 1 goal game no body says where was ortmeyer. but in a game where we take 7-10 penalties and kill off all of them it comes back to the penalty kill. and who was our best pker ortmeyer. we never won any games in the playoffs because of straka. there were a bunch of times against buffalo the kill came up big especially in game 3. they give up more than one goal on the kill we lose that game. not to mention that the refs were screwing us on penalties and they were out there so many times. you may look at things differently but i like consistency and clutch performances. thats what ortmeyer gave us especially on the pk.
You do realize Ortmeyer was 10th on Rangers in SH ice time per game in the playoffs?
6th among forwards?
How is he more important than someone like the hated Malik who had more ice time on your team than anyone not named Michal, overall and shorthanded, over the last two seasons?
Guy some of you were comparing him to eariler, Drury, led the forwards in Buffalo in SH ice time, and was the 3rd on team behind Tallinder and Lydman.

Ortmeyer's willingness to give up his body and all is nice, and his "I-lost-my-stick-so-go-down-to-block-shots" scores some sweet points with the fans, but like I said earlier... He's a good PKer, but his effectivness on the PK gets a bit overrated cos that's pretty much all he brings to his team. Drury does a lot of things on a high level, PKing being one of them. NOT cos he scored a couple of shorties (two were empty-netters anyway IIRC), but cos he reads the plays and covers really well. And blocks shots, yes.

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07-18-2007, 04:16 PM
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Obviously you are a little kid so I'm not going to argue with you or call you names. I listed those 7 players because those are the best players on our current team. If you want me to remove drury and gomez and replace them with nylander and avery or prucha (both of whom are better than ortmeyer) I would be happy to do so. Bottom line is that on last years, this years, or next years team jed ortmeyer is not one of the best 7 players.
dude you are still wrong and you know it. why compare ortmeyers importance to the team to drury and gomez? and your list is awful. you didn't even have nylander on there he put up career numbers. are you aware that ortmeyer is now on the predators? you say jed is not the best player on next years team... again. and please just stop with this whole little kid stuff. you have not defended your point here at all. you make an obviously wrong statement saying ortmeyer will not be important next year and you admit that nylander and avery should be on your list. its must be hard for all of you old timers to see that a 20 year old makes better points than you. because so far i've heard more statements about me being young than about ortmeyer. if you reply to this and mention me being young it is obvious you have nothing else to say. i am young but i know what i am talking about. not like you saying drury and gomez who haven't played a game yet are more important to the rangers than ortmeyer who is now on the predators.

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07-18-2007, 04:25 PM
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You do realize Ortmeyer was 10th on Rangers in SH ice time per game in the playoffs?
6th among forwards?
How is he more important than someone like the hated Malik who had more ice time on your team than anyone not named Michal, overall and shorthanded, over the last two seasons?
Guy some of you were comparing him to eariler, Drury, led the forwards in Buffalo in SH ice time, and was the 3rd on team behind Tallinder and Lydman.

Ortmeyer's willingness to give up his body and all is nice, and his "I-lost-my-stick-so-go-down-to-block-shots" scores some sweet points with the fans, but like I said earlier... He's a good PKer, but his effectivness on the PK gets a bit overrated cos that's pretty much all he brings to his team. Drury does a lot of things on a high level, PKing being one of them. NOT cos he scored a couple of shorties (two were empty-netters anyway If I recall correctly), but cos he reads the plays and covers really well. And blocks shots, yes.
obviously renny was going with guys who had more playoff experience. and i am not giving the pks success in the playoffs solely to ortmeyer. i was using the pk in the playoffs as an example that sometimes goal scoring isn't the most important thing to a win.

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07-18-2007, 04:44 PM
  #96
broadwayblue
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dude you are still wrong and you know it. why compare ortmeyers importance to the team to drury and gomez? and your list is awful. you didn't even have nylander on there he put up career numbers. are you aware that ortmeyer is now on the predators? you say jed is not the best player on next years team... again. and please just stop with this whole little kid stuff. you have not defended your point here at all. you make an obviously wrong statement saying ortmeyer will not be important next year and you admit that nylander and avery should be on your list. its must be hard for all of you old timers to see that a 20 year old makes better points than you. because so far i've heard more statements about me being young than about ortmeyer. if you reply to this and mention me being young it is obvious you have nothing else to say. i am young but i know what i am talking about. not like you saying drury and gomez who haven't played a game yet are more important to the rangers than ortmeyer who is now on the predators.
You are the one who said that orts is definitely one of the best 6 or 7 players on the team (i didn't go back to check your exact quote to see what "team" you were referring to.) My answer to that is he is not one of the best 6 or 7 players on last years team OR this years team and I gave you a list of 7 players for each team that doesn't include him. I'm not sure how else you would like me to defend my position. Jed is a one dimensional player who has reached his maximum potential. I wish him the best of luck, but it's time that he moved on.

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07-18-2007, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by devito1192 View Post
obviously renny was going with guys who had more playoff experience. and i am not giving the pks success in the playoffs solely to ortmeyer. i was using the pk in the playoffs as an example that sometimes goal scoring isn't the most important thing to a win.
No, but you were arguing a guy who's pretty much a specialst PKer, and only 6th among forwards in SH ice time at that, was more important to the team than someone who spends MORE time than him on the PK, AND plays important roles at ES and on the PP (Straka).

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07-18-2007, 04:51 PM
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You are the one who said that orts is definitely one of the best 6 or 7 players on the team (i didn't go back to check your exact quote to see what team you were referring to.) My answer to that is he is not one of the best 6 or 7 players on last years team OR this years team and I gave you a list of 7 players for each team that doesn't include him.
i know what i said because i said it. i know what you said because you wrote it. and then i read it. and told you it was wrong. you then tell me what you said... again. which is wrong. i know you gave me a list because i saw it. leaving us nowhere. argument over.

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07-18-2007, 05:06 PM
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i know what i said because i said it. i know what you said because you wrote it. and then i read it. and told you it was wrong. you then tell me what you said... again. which is wrong. i know you gave me a list because i saw it. leaving us nowhere. argument over.
what are you saying? it's incomprehensible.

which of the guys on my list (either one) are you saying that Jed Ortmeyer is better than?

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07-18-2007, 05:09 PM
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No, but you were arguing a guy who's pretty much a specialst PKer, and only 6th among forwards in SH ice time at that, was more important to the team than someone who spends MORE time than him on the PK, AND plays important roles at ES and on the PP (Straka).
i think i covered my points about straka on even strength and power play. i do like him but i thought he was inconsistent. he spent more time on the pk in the playoffs where renny went with more playoff experienced guys. it shows renny went that way. why would a guy who is a consistent pker in the season be 10th among players in sh time. renny went a different way.

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