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Jack Johnson signs with LA

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Old
04-11-2007, 08:48 AM
  #176
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
[/b]I don't meen to come off as bitter in saying this, but with all the crap and lack of respect (even after winning a cup) that this fanbase (the HF one specifically) has had to put up with around here, we reserve the right to throw it back in peoples faces when they make assinine statements about the Canes that have no basis in reality. [b]Obviously with this place being HockeysFUTURE we're going to be seeing a lot of people that subscribe to the "top prospects + early picks > Stanley Cups" mindset. But were this pretymuch any other franchise (with the possible exceptions of Tampa, Nashville, Florida or Phoenix) you would see a lot more people willing to see where this trade ends up rather then piling on the "ZOMG, TEH CANES GAV UP A TOP 5 PROSPECT LOL!" mindset. Those of us like Caniacforever, Bleedgreen and myself that have been around here for a long time and can say without hesitation that it's been happening the entire time we've been here and if we feel like we can throw some of the crap we've been getting from people right back at them, we reserve the right to do so.
Isn't that the truth. And yet when I brought that up I was laughed at and told I had a victim complex or whatever. Glad to see I'm not the only one who felt that way.

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04-11-2007, 10:02 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
That's still to be decided over the next few years as both continue to develop. Gleason is the better player now, will be the better player next year and it's probably not for another two or three seasons down the line that Jack will catch up to Gleason in terms of overall skill. Johnson simply has a lot to learn at this level about timing, positioning and the like but I'd say Jack has about an 85% chance of being the better player in the long run.

That said the issue isn't that he has a rediculously high potential, the issue is that many expected him to come in right out of college and kick the ass of everyone in the league as well as their dog simply because he's "JMFJ". People were claiming since this trade even happened that the Canes lost out, despite the fact that Johnson had yet to play ONE SINGLE GAME at the NHL level. Is Johnson's upside better then Gleasons? absolutely. Will he hit his upside? who knows. Is Johnson currently a better player then Gleason, as many thought he would be from day one in the NHL? absolutely not.

I don't meen to come off as bitter in saying this, but with all the crap and lack of respect (even after winning a cup) that this fanbase (the HF one specifically) has had to put up with around here, we reserve the right to throw it back in peoples faces when they make assinine statements about the Canes that have no basis in reality. Obviously with this place being HockeysFUTURE we're going to be seeing a lot of people that subscribe to the "top prospects + early picks > Stanley Cups" mindset. But were this pretymuch any other franchise (with the possible exceptions of Tampa, Nashville, Florida or Phoenix) you would see a lot more people willing to see where this trade ends up rather then piling on the "ZOMG, TEH CANES GAV UP A TOP 5 PROSPECT LOL!" mindset. Those of us like Caniacforever, Bleedgreen and myself that have been around here for a long time and can say without hesitation that it's been happening the entire time we've been here and if we feel like we can throw some of the crap we've been getting from people right back at them, we reserve the right to do so.
In past posts I have stated that only time will tell who got the better end of this trade. However, what I think is silly (and I'm just stating my opinion), is a thread that tracks JJ's every game and dissects his performance in some sort of an effort to justify the trade for Gleason. To say that so far, the kid hasn't had an open ice hit or the kid is -5 is very sophomoric and indicative of nothing, especially as the undercurrent of the thread is not simply to talk about JJ's performance but rather to rationalize the trade.

And, to be honest, I'm not sure how this "lack of respect", "us against them" mentality got started on this board, but i find that Canes fans here are far too sensitive to any posts that take issue with any mainstream view put forth by the core fans on this board. As I live in Raleigh and follow the Canes closely, even though they are not my number 1 team, I am always amazed by the reaction to non inflammatory posts on this board that are simply contrary to the regular Canes posters.

It seems as if there is some kind of paranoia here, and I'm not sure why. All the team boards have contrary viewpoints posted and debated. I'm also not sure what kind of respect this board is not getting. The Canes are a good team, got hot at the right time last year, became the best team, and won the cup. This year, they were mediocre just like half the league. Winning the cup was a memory you should all cherish forever, but now that reign is over and the Canes are just another average NHL team that will try to improve and make the playoffs next year. And there is no shame in that.

Back to JJ -
Personally, I think JR panicked and pulled the trigger on the JJ trade because he knew there was a big need to solidify the D if the Canes were going to have a shot at the playoffs. Gleason is a nice player, and you never know how the trade might shake out in the future. Maybe we'll all be talking about how the trade was pure JR genius. However, there is probably not one GM in the NHL that would not have pulled the trigger to get JJ for a Gleason type player. And analyzing JJ's every move in his first few games to the point where I expect to hear what he had for breakfast yesterday and a comparison to Gleason's waffles, simply proves nothing, but invites contrary viewpoints. Viewpoints that you should accept and debate, but not get mad about or get an us against them complex about.

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04-11-2007, 10:54 AM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach View Post
In past posts I have stated that only time will tell who got the better end of this trade. However, what I think is silly (and I'm just stating my opinion), is a thread that tracks JJ's every game and dissects his performance in some sort of an effort to justify the trade for Gleason. To say that so far, the kid hasn't had an open ice hit or the kid is -5 is very sophomoric and indicative of nothing, especially as the undercurrent of the thread is not simply to talk about JJ's performance but rather to rationalize the trade.

And, to be honest, I'm not sure how this "lack of respect", "us against them" mentality got started on this board, but i find that Canes fans here are far too sensitive to any posts that take issue with any mainstream view put forth by the core fans on this board. As I live in Raleigh and follow the Canes closely, even though they are not my number 1 team, I am always amazed by the reaction to non inflammatory posts on this board that are simply contrary to the regular Canes posters.

It seems as if there is some kind of paranoia here, and I'm not sure why. All the team boards have contrary viewpoints posted and debated. I'm also not sure what kind of respect this board is not getting. The Canes are a good team, got hot at the right time last year, became the best team, and won the cup. This year, they were mediocre just like half the league. Winning the cup was a memory you should all cherish forever, but now that reign is over and the Canes are just another average NHL team that will try to improve and make the playoffs next year. And there is no shame in that.

Back to JJ -
Personally, I think JR panicked and pulled the trigger on the JJ trade because he knew there was a big need to solidify the D if the Canes were going to have a shot at the playoffs. Gleason is a nice player, and you never know how the trade might shake out in the future. Maybe we'll all be talking about how the trade was pure JR genius. However, there is probably not one GM in the NHL that would not have pulled the trigger to get JJ for a Gleason type player. And analyzing JJ's every move in his first few games to the point where I expect to hear what he had for breakfast yesterday and a comparison to Gleason's waffles, simply proves nothing, but invites contrary viewpoints. Viewpoints that you should accept and debate, but not get mad about or get an us against them complex about.
Honestly I can say a lot of the bitterness of Canes fans around here has to do with the vast majority of responses any time one brings up a valid point. The typical response I see to ANY criticism of Johnson right now, reguardless of validity, is "this thread is filled with posts from Jealous Canes fans, or people from Canada who actually think JJ made contact with Downie". Seems like ANY time a Canes fan has come out and said much of anything about the team in the open it gets the same reaction, a reaction you don't see as often when fans of say Ottawa (just throwing a respected fanbase here out there) say something similar. The Johnson trade is probably the biggest example of it right now, although there has been more in the past on these boards. When you compare it to the reactions to the Thornton trade when it happened it's quite different then what was being said in reaction to the Johnson trade. Many of the same people willing to say they were giving that trade a chance are saying "ZOMG, PWNED" on the Johnson one if they are even posting at this site anymore. Certainly the quality of posting on this site has declined over the last two years (and that's something I could discuss for weeks on end but another matter entirely) but I fail to see how someone posting something along the lines of "he has yet to play a single game in the NHL, there's no way to tell who the winner is for another few seaons at least" warrants the kind of reaction I posted earlier or a "you don't know what you're talking about"... something I rarely if EVER see for a poster from a more traditional market unless they have a history of being an idiot. It's basically the "pile on the southern markets" mentality that I see being applied directly to the fans posting here, who are (for the most part) the farthest thing from being "part of the problem" that you can find.

As for my feelings on the JJ trade issue, personally I have no problem with the guy and want him to have a solid career. I just want people to wake up and realise that Gleason is turning into a damn good player in his own right, legit top four for any team and on a few teams (Carolina being one of them) a top pairing guy. As for what I wanted the return to be, Gleason is about right for part of it, but the least I would have wanted as the other part is O'Sullivan over Belanger, even with the father factor being a potential issue. It's more the fanboys that piss me off then the trade itself.

I also want people to wake up and realise that prospects don't always equal results, but around here I might as well be banging my head against a wall in that reguard. Kindof ironic for someone that just made the Canes draft preview for discussion, no?

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04-11-2007, 11:16 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Honestly I can say a lot of the bitterness of Canes fans around here has to do with the vast majority of responses any time one brings up a valid point. The typical response I see to ANY criticism of Johnson right now, reguardless of validity, is "this thread is filled with posts from Jealous Canes fans, or people from Canada who actually think JJ made contact with Downie". Seems like ANY time a Canes fan has come out and said much of anything about the team in the open it gets the same reaction, a reaction you don't see as often when fans of say Ottawa (just throwing a respected fanbase here out there) say something similar. The Johnson trade is probably the biggest example of it right now, although there has been more in the past on these boards. When you compare it to the reactions to the Thornton trade when it happened it's quite different then what was being said in reaction to the Johnson trade. Many of the same people willing to say they were giving that trade a chance are saying "ZOMG, PWNED" on the Johnson one if they are even posting at this site anymore. Certainly the quality of posting on this site has declined over the last two years (and that's something I could discuss for weeks on end but another matter entirely) but I fail to see how someone posting something along the lines of "he has yet to play a single game in the NHL, there's no way to tell who the winner is for another few seaons at least" warrants the kind of reaction I posted earlier or a "you don't know what you're talking about"... something I rarely if EVER see for a poster from a more traditional market unless they have a history of being an idiot. It's basically the "pile on the southern markets" mentality that I see being applied directly to the fans posting here, who are (for the most part) the farthest thing from being "part of the problem" that you can find.

As for my feelings on the JJ trade issue, personally I have no problem with the guy and want him to have a solid career. I just want people to wake up and realise that Gleason is turning into a damn good player in his own right, legit top four for any team and on a few teams (Carolina being one of them) a top pairing guy. As for what I wanted the return to be, Gleason is about right for part of it, but the least I would have wanted as the other part is O'Sullivan over Belanger, even with the father factor being a potential issue. It's more the fanboys that piss me off then the trade itself.

I also want people to wake up and realise that prospects don't always equal results, but around here I might as well be banging my head against a wall in that reguard. Kindof ironic for someone that just made the Canes draft preview for discussion, no?
I agree with what you are saying with the exception of the "pile on the southern markets" theme. I think that is self induced paranoia by this board. I post primarily on the Isles' board, and there is just as much crap being slung our way by other teams' posters. And I see it on other boards in high amounts as well. When the Isles traded 2 young minor leaguers and a # 1 to EDM for Smyth - the manure was flying at our board saying EDM robbed us, but that is the nature of the beast.

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04-11-2007, 12:09 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by beach View Post
I agree with what you are saying with the exception of the "pile on the southern markets" theme. I think that is self induced paranoia by this board. I post primarily on the Isles' board, and there is just as much crap being slung our way by other teams' posters. And I see it on other boards in high amounts as well. When the Isles traded 2 young minor leaguers and a # 1 to EDM for Smyth - the manure was flying at our board saying EDM robbed us, but that is the nature of the beast.
haha, yeah I remember some of the reactions. I see it in the same way I saw the Canes trade for Doug Weight last year. Marginal players and a draft pick that most likely will be nothing special for a difference maker. With Smyth the Isles are even more dangerous then they were before, especially if DiPietro is healthy. Would be prety sweet to see your guys knock off the Sabres after being all but mathematically eliminated a week ago.

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04-11-2007, 12:23 PM
  #181
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haha, yeah I remember some of the reactions. I see it in the same way I saw the Canes trade for Doug Weight last year. Marginal players and a draft pick that most likely will be nothing special for a difference maker. With Smyth the Isles are even more dangerous then they were before, especially if DiPietro is healthy. Would be prety sweet to see your guys knock off the Sabres after being all but mathematically eliminated a week ago.
Just making the playoffs after where the team stood the week before was nothing short of miraculous, although my heart almost stopped when the Devs tied Sunday's game with 0.9 seconds left in reg.

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04-12-2007, 02:51 PM
  #182
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I think the issue is with the junior hockey in Detroit and the rivalry between the Karmanos and Illich organizations. Someone more in the know would be able to give you a better perspective, but If I recall correctly the Johnson camp (and maybe it was just his father) was on the Illich side of things. I'm not from the Detroit area though and am not up to speed with the ins and outs of hockey there. I do know that one poster, a bit after he was drafted, commented that he would never play a game for any organization run by Karmanos... and he was absolutely shreaded for it. Wether he would have ended up being right or not is speculation at this point, but basing the way talks went when the Canes were dealing with his father I got the feeling that it flat out wasn't going to happen.
I believe this is the correct explanation. The Johnson family's ties to Illitch, the Illitch/Karamnos rivalry all add up. God I loved watching JJ in Ann Arbor.

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04-12-2007, 03:37 PM
  #183
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its certainly a plausible one. a friend of mine grew up in the detroit area playing hockey. he made it to a level where he played on a compuware team. he said the rivalry often grows very personal, and its a very political thing about who plays for who, and the way the kids are recruited. by the time they are through they absolutely hate the other side. friendships are lost in the process, and the kids whether its really that bad or not carry on the grudges in life.

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07-19-2007, 03:07 PM
  #184
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hate to dig this up, but at least i didnt start a new topic.

jack johnson sets things straight with the carolina rumour.

Quote:
JS: Even a year after the trade, you hear criticism from the Carolina fan base regarding your decision not to sign with the Hurricanes. Does that bother you?

JJ: Not at all. Not signing ended up being the best decision I’ve ever made. I was not ready at the time, and I’ve been dealt to a fantastic organization with fantastic players. It had nothing to do with Carolina’s organization; it was simply me not wanting to leave college yet. If people cannot respect a kid staying in school an additional year, then that is too bad.

I want to bury the Carolina rumor once and for all. My decision not to sign had nothing to do with Carolina’s organization. I made a promise to my coach at Michigan to play 2 seasons, and I wanted to honor my commitment. I grew more as a player and felt ready to make the jump after my sophomore year. I respect the Hurricanes’ decision to make a business decision. They did what they felt was best for their hockey club. I am thrilled to be with the Kings organization.
http://www.letsgokings.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=60593

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07-19-2007, 03:18 PM
  #185
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hate to dig this up, but at least i didnt start a new topic.

jack johnson sets things straight with the carolina rumour.

http://www.letsgokings.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=60593
Power to him.

Its a very mature comment.






Now on a more serious note.

What do you think is the over/under on the number of years it takes for random joe hockey fan to move on from this trade and stop telling Canes fans that they'd regret this day!

I say a new thread pops up on the Canes board about his first goal, first big hit, first time he poops on his own...


Over/under: 4 years?

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07-19-2007, 03:18 PM
  #186
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It's a trade Canes will regret in the future.... Mark my words!!!!

I have only seen him play in WJC and he was the best D overall... (He is awesome)

He scored two times in the shootout for USA and was solid defensively....

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07-19-2007, 03:19 PM
  #187
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Do we really have to talk about this AGAIN?

You mean he didn't come out and say, 'I detest the Hurricanes organization and I wanted to stone them because Dad and I have had a beef with them since I was a kid.'

This just in. Turns out hockey player comments to media may not always be truthful, but usually tactful.


Last edited by Les Ouragans: 07-19-2007 at 03:26 PM.
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07-19-2007, 03:22 PM
  #188
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What do you think is the over/under on the number of years it takes for random joe hockey fan to move on from this trade and stop telling Canes fans that they'd regret this day!
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Originally Posted by Go_Oil13 View Post
It's a trade Canes will regret in the future.... Mark my words!!!!
Now THAT'S funny!

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07-19-2007, 03:24 PM
  #189
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Now THAT'S funny!
Didn't take long . 20 seconds maybe.

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07-19-2007, 03:31 PM
  #190
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I'm going to find a Irbe vs. Weekes thread from 2003 and bring that up. We need to talk about that one some more too.

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07-19-2007, 03:38 PM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Ouragans View Post
I'm going to find a Irbe vs. Weekes thread from 2003 and bring that up. We need to talk about that one some more too.
Actually, I've been mentioning that lately. lol Or more so to the fact JR v Irbe since there really isn't anything to the Irbe v Weekes thing. Man, I just have this picture in my head that Irbe kicked the crap out of Rutherford's dog or something. I can't let it go....make it stop!!!

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07-19-2007, 03:59 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Go_Oil13 View Post
It's a trade Canes will regret in the future.... Mark my words!!!!

I have only seen him play in WJCand he was the best D overall... (He is awesome)

He scored two times in the shootout for USA and was solid defensively....
Damn, you're pretty much an expert on him.

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07-19-2007, 04:07 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Les Ouragans View Post
Do we really have to talk about this AGAIN?

You mean he didn't come out and say, 'I detest the Hurricanes organization and I wanted to stone them because Dad and I have had a beef with them since I was a kid.'

This just in. Turns out hockey player comments to media may not always be truthful, but usually tactful.
this just in. the guy who interviewed him is his best friend, since childhood, and did the fans of letsgokings.com a favor and posted the interview there. not really media, more of a direct to the fans interview. i do agree with your comment about the playes and media though.

ps those were questions asked by members of lgk.com

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07-19-2007, 05:38 PM
  #194
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If he knew the explicit purpose of the interview was to be posted on the internet, he conducted himself the way he would in a formal interview. I doubt his friend was just sitting around and asking him these questions and getting candid answers with a hidden voice recorder. If he knew his words were being documented then he was selecting his words with care.

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07-19-2007, 05:45 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by mikealive View Post
this just in. the guy who interviewed him is his best friend, since childhood, and did the fans of letsgokings.com a favor and posted the interview there. not really media, more of a direct to the fans interview. i do agree with your comment about the playes and media though.

ps those were questions asked by members of lgk.com
And that kind of interview, for a web site, would be more truthful in what way? Otherwise, this is just meaningless. I give him points for knowing the right things to say, as AymanD noted.

if you get your hands on a hidden video interview under truth serum, let us know.

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