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NHL's image rising? The Rangers role:

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Old
07-20-2007, 10:30 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Zero impact. The NHL is too far out of the mainstream at this point for anything but a plane crash that kills an entire team to be newsworthy. MLB, NFL and NASCAR are the only things that are "consumed" in mass quantities by Americans, so that's all the media cares about.

Examples:

-I heard David Beckham is going to play in the MLS. (?) Know how I found out? My wife told me while she was entrenched in some Posh Spice special on TV. That's STILL the only place I've heard the news.

- The "Tiger Woods of motorsports" is currently leading the Formula 1 World Championship in his rookie season and has yet to finish off the podium in 9 starts. Can anyone not posting from Europe even name him?
comparing woods to hamilton is a little... umm.. odd.. wouldn´t you say? but thats for another topic on another forum

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07-20-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Zero impact. The NHL is too far out of the mainstream at this point for anything but a plane crash that kills an entire team to be newsworthy. MLB, NFL and NASCAR are the only things that are "consumed" in mass quantities by Americans, so that's all the media cares about.

Examples:

-I heard David Beckham is going to play in the MLS. (?) Know how I found out? My wife told me while she was entrenched in some Posh Spice special on TV. That's STILL the only place I've heard the news.

- The "Tiger Woods of motorsports" is currently leading the Formula 1 World Championship in his rookie season and has yet to finish off the podium in 9 starts. Can anyone not posting from Europe even name him?
when those former Kings coaches I think that were killed in a plan crash, it made the news, when something bad happens it always makes the news no matter what the story is. I think its the way u market it. There are more shows on ESPN and the sports channels about the NBA and NFL and MLB. NHL2night was a good one that got canned and people in the USA who have Time Warner or another cable service dont get TSN in states which shows alot of hockey. And what about the NHL draft, How come the NHL draft is only 1 round and the NFL and NBA is all day??? And the sports talk shows they only show hockey if at all, is either when something bad happens or one of the elite, Jagr, Crosby, Hedjuk doing a great offensive move to score.

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07-20-2007, 10:38 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Alfie Mexes View Post
comparing woods to hamilton is a little... umm.. odd.. wouldn´t you say? but thats for another topic on another forum
He is drawing those comps, I've seen it myself in ESPN The Magazine and elsewhere if memory serves. Obviously it's way early for that, but it's not Melrose making it up.

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07-20-2007, 10:46 AM
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If I'm correct those Kings coaches were killed in one of the planes on 9/11...


A big problem with the NHL is that the league doesn't have any great personalities either. We have no TO or even a Peyton Manning or anything. These days you see Peyton everywhere and he's kind of funny too. The NHL doesn't have anyone like that. Why? Because the league doesn't know how to market its players. I hear about all of these funny players that the NHL has, but yet I never see any of them on TV, it's always the same guys and they always say the same things. When a player in the NHL talks to the media you never hear anything out of the ordinary. It's basically the same things said over and over. I find it funny that when these players get interviewed sometimes and they get asked a question they don't want to answer on TV, they don't even answer the question and just say something else completely off-topic. This happens quite often too.
Then the NHL never has any of its commercials on TV. They had some good commercials this year, but they only were shown during hockey games. What's the point?

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07-20-2007, 10:47 AM
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I'm of the opinion that problems suffered by other sports mean nothing to the NHL. I also believe that when the Rangers did well, the idea that it somehow helped the league is completely bogus. All it arguably did was add some fans in the NY area.

Whenever a professional sports franchise wins it all, fandom rises for that sport in that community. Tampa Bay is a great example of this. We in NY greatly overrate the impact that the success of the Rangers has on the visibility and popularity of the sport. Even if there is some impact it is only temporary.

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07-20-2007, 10:48 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfie Mexes View Post
comparing woods to hamilton is a little... umm.. odd.. wouldn´t you say? but thats for another topic on another forum
A young black man not only breaks into a sport dominated by whites, but dominates it out of the box. Seems like a natural comparison at this point.

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07-20-2007, 10:54 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I'm of the opinion that problems suffered by other sports mean nothing to the NHL. I also believe that when the Rangers did well, the idea that it somehow helped the league is completely bogus. All it arguably did was add some fans in the NY area.

Whenever a professional sports franchise wins it all, fandom rises for that sport in that community. Tampa Bay is a great example of this. We in NY greatly overrate the impact that the success of the Rangers has on the visibility and popularity of the sport. Even if there is some impact it is only temporary.
I agree, but I also disagree. I do agree that we as Rangers fans do overrate how big of an impact our team has on the league.
However, I do believe that we do have an impact due to the fact that if the Rangers make it to the finals someone like ESPN is more likely to publicize it than if most other teams make it. Don't forget New York is the biggest market in North America, so if the Rangers are in the finals, an ESPN is more likely to be forced to say something and hype it up a bit than if it's Anaheim and Ottawa. That's where the Rangers impact is.
Whether or not people actually watch it is a completely different story.

Just like I bet you MLS ratings are going to increase at least at the beginning when Beckham starts playing for LA simply because of the hype that ESPN and the major news networks are making.

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07-20-2007, 11:05 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
A young black man not only breaks into a sport dominated by whites, but dominates it out of the box. Seems like a natural comparison at this point.
they are black.. thats what they have in common.
and domination in the F1 looks way different. hes having a great rookie season, but its far from dominating the rest of the field.

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07-20-2007, 11:21 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Alfie Mexes View Post
hes having a great rookie season, but its far from dominating the rest of the field.
How would one improve on 9 podiums in 9 starts, 2 poles, 2 wins and leading the world championship, the youngest person ever to do so? Forgetting the fact that he's the first black driver in F1 history, that's quite a rookie season for anyone in any sport.

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07-20-2007, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
How would one improve on 9 podiums in 9 starts, 2 poles, 2 wins and leading the world championship, the youngest person ever to do so? Forgetting the fact that he's the first black driver in F1 history, that's quite a rookie season for anyone in any sport.
He's a phenom regardless of his race. When you account for race, Woods comparisons are natural.

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07-20-2007, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by NYRChazzer View Post
If I'm correct those Kings coaches were killed in one of the planes on 9/11...


A big problem with the NHL is that the league doesn't have any great personalities either. We have no TO or even a Peyton Manning or anything. These days you see Peyton everywhere and he's kind of funny too. The NHL doesn't have anyone like that. Why? Because the league doesn't know how to market its players. I hear about all of these funny players that the NHL has, but yet I never see any of them on TV, it's always the same guys and they always say the same things. When a player in the NHL talks to the media you never hear anything out of the ordinary. It's basically the same things said over and over. I find it funny that when these players get interviewed sometimes and they get asked a question they don't want to answer on TV, they don't even answer the question and just say something else completely off-topic. This happens quite often too.
Then the NHL never has any of its commercials on TV. They had some good commercials this year, but they only were shown during hockey games. What's the point?
i agree or the ones that u see are the rangers, islanders or devils on those channels. this is why im glad i have yahoo so i can watch the games from the other states and canada, they have some funny commercials.

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07-20-2007, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
How would one improve on 9 podiums in 9 starts, 2 poles, 2 wins and leading the world championship, the youngest person ever to do so? Forgetting the fact that he's the first black driver in F1 history, that's quite a rookie season for anyone in any sport.
how many rookies get the chance to drive for a top team in his rookie year?

jacques villeneuve comes to my mind. 2 more wins and hamilton will tie the record for most wins by a rookie. but its still a long way ahead.
in todays formula 1, talent isnt everything. you need a good running car and you are a great driver in an instant. as much as i hate golf.. there is alot more skill required than in any motorsport (except for bikes and WRC)

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07-20-2007, 11:40 AM
  #38
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I think it's fairly well established that fans don't care about the legal/criminal issues in MLB, NBA, and the NBA. They just don't.

Regardless of what Michael Vick, Tank Johnson, Pacman Jones and the Cincinnati Bengals have done, the NFL will still do killer ratings and there will still be a 30 year waiting list for season tickets.

The NBA has had black eye after black eye. And noone cares.
If you are referring to this latest story about the NBA ref, I believe that is on a whole other level than brawls or players' idiocy away from the arena or steroids. If it turns out to be true that an NBA ref was affecting that outcomes of games for gambling purposes, that totally undermines the credibility of the competition that the league is based on. Depending on what comes out, that story has the potential be something the NBA will have an extremely hard time recovering from. The only comparable things would be the Black Sox scandal (which nearly ruined baseball until Babe Ruth came along), Pete Rose and the various college point shaving scandals (such as the one that ruined CUNY's program).

Personally, if I hear an athlete I follow is a degenerate away from the field/ice, who cares thats just the way some people in this world are, from the beginning of civilization until the end of it. But if I hear that the games' outcomes are being intenionally influenced one way or another by an official, why would I bother watching?

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07-20-2007, 11:45 AM
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If you are referring to this latest story about the NBA ref, I believe that is on a whole other level than brawls or players' idiocy away from the arena or steroids. If it turns out to be true that an NBA ref was affecting that outcomes of games for gambling purposes, that totally undermines the credibility of the competition that the league is based on. Depending on what comes out, that story has the potential be something the NBA will have an extremely hard time recovering from. The only comparable things would be the Black Sox scandal (which nearly ruined baseball until Babe Ruth came along), Pete Rose and the various college point shaving scandals (such as the one that ruined CUNY's program).
In one sense i agree, but i think the fans will target ALL the refs and not the league itself (for the wrong reasons) when it should be put on the league for not keeping tabs on the refs.

It should definitely be a head office problem, after all they hired the guy and if its true they didnt do enough to police themselves and their own officials, because its an FBI investigation. Thats NO joke.

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07-20-2007, 11:54 AM
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If the NHL is lucky, the Rangers will have another great season and if they make it to the finals it could help the image of this sport jump to front and center again. The NHL is dying for a finals story and hasn't truly had one since 94 when its popularity was arguably at its all-time peak.

I'm interested in what everyone says. I know hockey won't get its due airplay or back covers in the Post. Thats not what i'm discussing here. Its about the Rangers role in getting this sport front and center again.

What impact would the Rangers have in the U.S. if they did something special, this season?
Yup, the NHL flounders if New York is not front and center.

If the Rangers make the finals, viewership will still remain dismal. Net Ranger viewership was relatively mediocre, even in last year's environment where Avery became a media darling and the Rangers actually built a team.

The NHL is, and will continue to be, a fringe sport. Just accept it. Frankly, the NHL is shooting itself in the foot again with the ridiculous cap increases every year.

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07-20-2007, 11:55 AM
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If you are referring to this latest story about the NBA ref, I believe that is on a whole other level than brawls or players' idiocy away from the arena or steroids. If it turns out to be true that an NBA ref was affecting that outcomes of games for gambling purposes, that totally undermines the credibility of the competition that the league is based on. Depending on what comes out, that story has the potential be something the NBA will have an extremely hard time recovering from. The only comparable things would be the Black Sox scandal (which nearly ruined baseball until Babe Ruth came along), Pete Rose and the various college point shaving scandals (such as the one that ruined CUNY's program).

Personally, if I hear an athlete I follow is a degenerate away from the field/ice, who cares thats just the way some people in this world are, from the beginning of civilization until the end of it. But if I hear that the games' outcomes are being intenionally influenced one way or another by an official, why would I bother watching?
It is on a different level. But I also don't it will effect the popularity of the NBA.

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07-20-2007, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfie Mexes View Post
how many rookies get the chance to drive for a top team in his rookie year?

jacques villeneuve comes to my mind. 2 more wins and hamilton will tie the record for most wins by a rookie. but its still a long way ahead.
in todays formula 1, talent isnt everything. you need a good running car and you are a great driver in an instant. as much as i hate golf.. there is alot more skill required than in any motorsport (except for bikes and WRC)
Good points that I'd love to counterpoint, but we're already too far OT as it is.

Point is, an interesting or remarkable sports story is not enough to generate interest in things that exist under the radar of mainstream American media. A Cup win for the hockey team from NY will have the same impact as a Cup win for the team from Anaheim. None, unless Paris Hilton attends the game.

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07-20-2007, 12:08 PM
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OK maybe I for one and on the other side of the fence here, but I for one think good teams in big markets really do and will make a difference. And a big one at that...

Take New York for example, we have the New York Rangers, one of the most storried franchises in the history of the NHL. The Garden sells out nearly every night... Now most of these are hardcore fans or buisness men...

But think about it... is bad hockey fun to watch, if your team sucks do you enjoy watching hockey games.

I still watch them, I watch them all, but I'm a hardcore hockey fan, and I still find myself shutting the TV off circa 03 with the Rangers down 5-0...

A casual fan it doesn't even take that much, why the hell would they watch, terrible teams, and for that matter how do you capture the attentions of the young possible new viewers watching games for the first time...

Fact of the matter is to build a successful national product it HAS to do well in big markets. If the Rangers are good, if they're exciting the first time fans start watching more hockey. With the millions and millions of people in NYC, with the sheer amount of people there is, the Rangers have the oppertunity and the ability to pick up more casual, and first time fans than almost any other team in the United States.

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07-20-2007, 12:17 PM
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If the Yankees...

go a couple years out of the playoffs and sucking, Yankee Stadium will be emptier on most nights. The Garden was emptier throughout the Knicks season last year. Fair weatherness is prevelant in most sports. Football to a lesser extent because there's only 8 home games (and even with that, some places go through hard times if the team sucks).

If the Rangers are good, it is good for hockey, but it doesn't have a huge magnifying effect. It raises awareness in the largest TV market. It raises awaresness in many other markets as a result of NYers being everywhere. The casual Columbus fan couldn't give a rat's behind though.

Hockey's problem is there isn't enough support behind it in a grass-roots efftort. It's not a cheap sport, and it's not a readily available sport. It's a lot easier to get 6 guys and a football, go in a backyard or a park and play some 3-on-3, then to get sticks, skates, pucks, perhaps pads, and nets and play in the street where play is stopped every two minutes because of a car. You need to be a bit more dedicated and us Americans are lazy and suffer from ADD.

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07-20-2007, 12:22 PM
  #45
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go a couple years out of the playoffs and sucking, Yankee Stadium will be emptier on most nights. The Garden was emptier throughout the Knicks season last year. Fair weatherness is prevelant in most sports. Football to a lesser extent because there's only 8 home games (and even with that, some places go through hard times if the team sucks).

If the Rangers are good, it is good for hockey, but it doesn't have a huge magnifying effect. It raises awareness in the largest TV market. It raises awaresness in many other markets as a result of NYers being everywhere. The casual Columbus fan couldn't give a rat's behind though.

Hockey's problem is there isn't enough support behind it in a grass-roots efftort. It's not a cheap sport, and it's not a readily available sport. It's a lot easier to get 6 guys and a football, go in a backyard or a park and play some 3-on-3, then to get sticks, skates, pucks, perhaps pads, and nets and play in the street where play is stopped every two minutes because of a car. You need to be a bit more dedicated and us Americans are lazy and suffer from ADD.
It gets interesting when you get a group that's really into the game, who refuse to stop for an SUV barreling down the street at ridiculous speeds.

All good points you make Fletch. Your post should be the end of the thread, heh.

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07-20-2007, 12:55 PM
  #46
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It is on a different level. But I also don't it will effect the popularity of the NBA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
In one sense i agree, but i think the fans will target ALL the refs and not the league itself (for the wrong reasons) when it should be put on the league for not keeping tabs on the refs.

It should definitely be a head office problem, after all they hired the guy and if its true they didnt do enough to police themselves and their own officials, because its an FBI investigation. Thats NO joke.
Depending on what comes out, I think it could effect the popularity of the NBA. No American sports league has ever had (as far as the public knows) an official with direct influence over the outcome of games affecting them for gambling purposes.

And I think David Stern and the league head office will definitely catch a lot of fan backlash if this investigation turns up anything serious. I agree with you HBNYC, they have to be on top of their referees, for this sort of thing if nothing else.

As for the NHL's success being tied to the Rangers, if the league is ever going to get back in the "top four" or even get back on a real cable channel, they need the Rangers to be a championship contendor.


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07-20-2007, 01:03 PM
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Adding on to what Fletch said, what do you think had more of an affect on baseball's popularity growth in the laye 90s? McGwire-Sosa or the Yankees resurgence? If its not the latter, its very very close.

If there's a chance the Rangers are going to win the cup, then you have the attention of the largest market in the country. And no advertiser is going to fail to notice that. And no network is going to fail to notice when the advertisers are interested.

Also, something that the NHL is banking on is HD TV becoming more prevalent, which it will. Hockey on HD makes more of a difference than any other sport.


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07-20-2007, 01:17 PM
  #48
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I'm no baseball expert Johnny, but I think that at least the MLB had a large casual fan base that was disillusioned by their lockout. They didn't need to develop new fans as much as they just had to win the old ones back. Maybe McGuire/Sosa and/or Yankee dynasty was well timed, or maybe they just would have come back anyway at some point.

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07-20-2007, 01:30 PM
  #49
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I'm no baseball expert Johnny, but I think that at least the MLB had a large casual fan base that was disillusioned by their lockout. They didn't need to develop new fans as much as they just had to win the old ones back. Maybe McGuire/Sosa and/or Yankee dynasty was well timed, or maybe they just would have come back anyway at some point.
Yeah, IMO its that there was a large casual fanbase and like you said, McGwire/Sosa + Yankee dynasty was perfectly timed to bring people back. Self definitely got lucky though, I don't think he did anything (besides turning a blind eye to steroids).

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, there are casual hockey fans out there in the NY area (Remember 94?). I can't speak as well about other regions in the country, but the NHL has done itself no favors in getting those casual fans' people's attention- between the Rangers sucking, a boring style of play and the lockout.

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07-20-2007, 01:48 PM
  #50
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The so-called "dead puck" era really hurt the NHL and gave it that "boring" stigma that many not hockey fans seem to associate with the sport

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