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The Stigma of being David Aebischer...

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03-07-2004, 01:39 PM
  #51
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
of course some are canucks fans, but others are just casual canadian hockey fans (so they only favour canadian teams) and these guys no doubt like sakic much more than forsberg (same can be said for canucks fans as well). man do i ever get ribbed for saying peter's my fav player. so it got me thinking...do these guys not like aebischer because he played his hockey in switzerland (i.e. not north american)?
Ok, so why is it that so many people prefer Naslund to Bertuzzi? Is it because he's Swedish?

Help me out here, how does it work?

I have no doubt that some people are prejudiced towards Canadians. But I think at one point, you have to take into account other factors and not generalize.

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03-07-2004, 02:48 PM
  #52
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listen here. im not saying every canadian thinks with a pro-canadian bias. but no doubt many do think that way. yes, i do realize that the bruins don't have the same aspirations as the avs (thus disrupting the balance of the situation between aebi and raycroft)... its entirely possible that raycroft's canadian background may play an influence in what is being said. of course there are other factors but i believe pro-canadian sentiments is one of them.

plus, the main premise of my argument is that you can't deny there is a canadian bias (however small it may be). if u think otherwise then i would have to think you are a little naive considering the amount of discrimination that exists in our world (which is quite a bit). but you obviously recognize a bias exists. yet, i guess we just can't agree on the degree of bias that persists. given my past interactions with my buddies, i think its quite prevalent.


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Old
03-07-2004, 02:54 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad The Impaler
Ok, so why is it that so many people prefer Naslund to Bertuzzi? Is it because he's Swedish?

Help me out here, how does it work?

I have no doubt that some people are prejudiced towards Canadians. But I think at one point, you have to take into account other factors and not generalize.
ill tell you how it works. nationalism is greatly valued in many circumstances but with notable exceptions. for instance, if you have a favorite NHL team and your best player isn't canadian, national bias isn't likey to factor in. its no doubt a complex issue. but you can't deny pro-candianism exists and given all things being equal, hockey fans in canada will more often support a canadian hockey player.

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03-07-2004, 02:59 PM
  #54
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lol

i've never heard any "anti-aebisher because he is swiss" comments. sounds like the only existance of these remarks are all from the avs fans. i think you colorado guys are getting all worked up about nothing

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03-07-2004, 03:02 PM
  #55
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Aebischer has been very solid this season, anyone who has actually watched the Avs knows as much. He has established himself as a bonafide starting goalie in the NHL.

What he is yet to do - nor had the oportunity to do - is demonstrate the same ability come playoff time. Big difference.

It's an odd call for Lacroix, as he has a team primed to go for the Cup, a very good goaltender...but a neophyte come the postseason. Common logic would dictate going with the guy, since he has earned that opportunity, and the team obviously plays well with him. Conversely, an upheaval this late in the season could be disasterous for the team's psyche. (Not a small consideration.)

On the other hand, serious Cup contenders typically have at least some playoff experience in net.

Lacroix will sit tight, IMO, and that is the right call. But it is an interesting decision.

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03-07-2004, 03:03 PM
  #56
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meh. lemme take an excerpt from the DP article:

He was crushed when he first was eligible for the NHL draft in 1996 but wasn't taken. Two assumptions about Swiss players worked against him: One, that they weren't good enough; and, two, that even if they were, they would prefer the secure, high-paying and shorter-season existence in the Swiss league.

----------------------------------------------------------------

How can there not be a stigma given these assumptions about Swiss hockey players? I would think the NHL draft would be a great place to look for biases.

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03-07-2004, 03:08 PM
  #57
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Aebisher is the successor of Roy. This is the main problem, it's never easy to comes after this kind of goalie 'cause even with great stats you wont received the praise you deserved...

Thibault was never able to take the job coming in the trade from Roy in Montreal. Of course this was much harder since he's was coming in a trade that send Roy the other way.

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03-07-2004, 04:33 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
meh. lemme take an excerpt from the DP article:

He was crushed when he first was eligible for the NHL draft in 1996 but wasn't taken. Two assumptions about Swiss players worked against him: One, that they weren't good enough; and, two, that even if they were, they would prefer the secure, high-paying and shorter-season existence in the Swiss league.

----------------------------------------------------------------

How can there not be a stigma given these assumptions about Swiss hockey players? I would think the NHL draft would be a great place to look for biases.
dude........
ok, i am not be the most sensitive person around but...
if this stigma from aebisher's draft day in 1996 still haunts him now then he is pretty weak mentally

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03-07-2004, 05:16 PM
  #59
fcbarcelona
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no it doesn't haunt him. quite frankly, aebi could care less.

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03-07-2004, 05:20 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
no it doesn't haunt him. quite frankly, aebi could care less.
then what is this stigma you guys keep on talking about?
sounds like you avs fans are making something out of nothing

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03-07-2004, 06:15 PM
  #61
Vlad The Impaler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
meh. lemme take an excerpt from the DP article:

He was crushed when he first was eligible for the NHL draft in 1996 but wasn't taken. Two assumptions about Swiss players worked against him: One, that they weren't good enough; and, two, that even if they were, they would prefer the secure, high-paying and shorter-season existence in the Swiss league.
David Aebischer was ignored alright, but it had a lot to do with Switzerland not being scouted. You don't put ressources in a place that doesn't produce NHLers. In 1996, the issue of high-paying Swiss league was not a big concern yet. The Denver Media, as usual, are partly re-writing history.

Had he been scouted properly, he might have been taken then. Or maybe he just wasn't all that hot yet. He's not the only goalie to be ignored in a draft. This is historically the most difficult position to assess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jericholic19
How can there not be a stigma given these assumptions about Swiss hockey players? I would think the NHL draft would be a great place to look for biases.
I've already acknoweldged that part, though. You are definitly right that there is a preference for recognizable, proven patterns in the NHL during the DRAFT. I find that kind of discrimination acceptable, even though it reveals (in part) some inability to scout properly.

Teams that go in the draft with the (wrong) mindset that the draft is a big crapshoot will figure that 4-5 players are "just the same" and then eliminate candidates based on patterns of success and past history (this is done all the time around here too, sadly).

Yet, given that many players are roughly equal in talent, I consider this ok. I don't know if it is you or someone else who said it on this thread but yes, after all, these teams are taking into account the kind of system the player is developing in.

Once you've drafted him and he plays on your pro team, however, what can you do but check out what he brings to the club? I'm sure there's some people out there who are currently discriminating him based on him being Swiss but for a vast majority of hockey fans, the "stigma of being David Aebischer" is pretty much similar to what ALL goalies in the same situation have to go through: it's the stigma of having been a career backup, being young, having no playoffs experience and having been under the radar with little hype because he was not that high of a draft choice.

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