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Old
07-17-2007, 04:37 PM
  #26
Finest
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Originally Posted by MisterUnspoken View Post
The Annual Hossa Bashing Thread has commenced... this should be good...

This is always my favorite thread of the offseason.

Hossa plays on the PK rather effectively, Hossa is not a top line player, but he's a very very good utility player who CAN play on a top line OR grind it out on the bottom lines without missing a beat.

He's going to be on the team whether anyone wants him or not. Renney likes players who can fill multiple roles.
I agree totally, he can be used as a plug and work relativly well, he isnt going anywhere anytime soon, nor do I think he is "overrated". I'm not suggesting he is anywhere near his brother in regards to skill sets, but he is still an effective player who deserves a spot on the roster IMO.

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07-17-2007, 04:41 PM
  #27
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For the months of February and March Hossa went 8-5-13 +6 in 15 games, playing on the top line, with average ATOI at 16:50. On this pace he could get over 30 goals over 82 games. I think he will get around 25 playing on the top line.

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07-17-2007, 05:08 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by BRONX_MADNESS View Post
The guy put up a few points, for a few games, with JAROMIR JAGR. His career highs are 10 goals, 8 apples, and 18 points playing 64 games in the NHL. If he had as much skill as many of you posit, he'd have been a 20 goal scorer for years now. Please silence yourselves, talk of him being a 1st line wing is ridiculous. An AHL call up such as dawes would be a very positive makeover, I mean Hossa has yet to score 20 goals IN THE AHL. He's dispensable, and you should want him gone. End of story.
Because of course it's all about the number of points a player puts up. Forget the fact that he is one of the hardest working Rangers I have seen in a long time. Forget that he is one of the best defensive forwards on the team. Forget that he is one of the best Rangers away from the puck. Forget that he is excellent on the PK (and a perfect replacement for Ortmeyer in the PK role). Forget all that. Points are the only thing that matters.

And for the record, I agree that he probably is not a top line forward. I would probably try him again on the top line for a while to see if it works out. See if he can match that 13 pts. in 15 games that he did last year before he got hurt. If he makes it in that role, great. If not, I think he is a tremendous 4th line player.

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07-17-2007, 05:09 PM
  #29
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Hossa (Merged with Poll) - HFBoards
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=Hossa

As I've said, he was still playing well when he got hurt last year.

Maybe True Blue is right and he would've tanked if he hadn't gotten hurt, but I'm not so sure.

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07-17-2007, 05:25 PM
  #30
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Having Hossa on the first line is not worth it, we're paying top dollar for Drury and Gomez, we're putting them on the top 2 lines.

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07-17-2007, 05:29 PM
  #31
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Why don't we wait and see in September? If he sustains late '07 season level of play, he'll earn a top line spot. If he bombs, he can play fourth line.

Same is true for all players. If Hollweg manages 10 points in 5 pre-season games, you start him on the first line. On the other end of the spectrum, he's down in Hartford.

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Old
07-17-2007, 05:39 PM
  #32
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I've said it before and I'll say it again.....Hossa has alot of skill.....Hossa has some real potential......Hossa has worked hard under Renney to become a solid 2 way player....Now Hossa needs to prove if the spurt before the injury was his coming out...or another false blip on the radar screen....and he needs to EARN the right to play on the top line in camp. If he does that I give him the first 25 games to show that he's for real....or be relegated to 4th line micro minutes again and be a space filler! BTW....if his last name wasn't Hossa...he would NOT be viewed so harshly by alot of you!

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Old
07-17-2007, 08:24 PM
  #33
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I agree so tired of the Hossa is best thing since slice bread kool aid drinkers.
Hes not that good, never was, never will be hes a role player who can get hot @ times.

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07-17-2007, 08:30 PM
  #34
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Hossa has a history of performing well in spurts and then slumping... at some point (as Montreal did) I think we have to accept that he has more slumps than hot streaks. So he finished on a hot streak (and then promptly got injured)? That's great, but until he can play well for more than 10 to 15 game spurts he remains an enigmatic player that is good for (maybe) 20 to 25 good games a year and is invisible in the rest.

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07-17-2007, 09:06 PM
  #35
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i agree with hossa being very streaky. so far he has only proven himself with jagr aswell. as for the pk other guys come to my mind first. he would be my 4th choice behind avery, betts and drury. if cullen werent traded hossa would be my fifth. he's not bad but i don't think he is among our best.

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Old
07-17-2007, 09:14 PM
  #36
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All this talk of Hossa only "proving" himself with Jagr is off base. Hossa only proved himself as a scorer while playing with Jagr; he's shown to be an excellent defensive forward and penalty killer regardless of who he is playing with. The guy is a known commodity at this point, while the only question mark surrounding him is whether he truly possess an offensive game.

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Originally Posted by AJ1982 View Post
Hossa has a history of performing well in spurts and then slumping... at some point (as Montreal did) I think we have to accept that he has more slumps than hot streaks. So he finished on a hot streak (and then promptly got injured)? That's great, but until he can play well for more than 10 to 15 game spurts he remains an enigmatic player that is good for (maybe) 20 to 25 good games a year and is invisible in the rest.
Again, he's not "invisible" when he's not scoring goals. He's banging along the boards, cycling the puck well and back checking his ass off. I know we all want him to be a scorer, but he may never turn into one. But to say he's invisible when he's not scoring is to completely ignore his other contributions, which certainly help the team.

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Old
07-17-2007, 09:17 PM
  #37
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I think Hossa has a huge amount of potential. I think if he wouldn't have gotten injured we would have seen him shine, but he did get injured so now this debate ensues. I know he is not his brother, but there is something there, he has the skill it just needs a catalyst a la Jaromesky

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Old
07-17-2007, 09:40 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
All this talk of Hossa only "proving" himself with Jagr is off base. Hossa only proved himself as a scorer while playing with Jagr; he's shown to be an excellent defensive forward and penalty killer regardless of who he is playing with. The guy is a known commodity at this point, while the only question mark surrounding him is whether he truly possess an offensive game.



Again, he's not "invisible" when he's not scoring goals. He's banging along the boards, cycling the puck well and back checking his ass off. I know we all want him to be a scorer, but he may never turn into one. But to say he's invisible when he's not scoring is to completely ignore his other contributions, which certainly help the team.
Okay, my one post on this thread. To begin with: Fantastic post, nyr2k2 - completely agreed.

Several people earlier posted that folks on this board hate him because the name on the back of his sweater sets expectations that are too high. I used to think that was the case too... but upon reflection I don't think that's it - I think the reality is that he is SO understated and undemonstrative and THAT'S why people don't like him. If he whooped it up like Avery or even showed the emotion of Prucha, people would absolutely love him. But the fact of the matter is that he's an understated, undemonstrative, even SHY kid who doesn't waste any extra energy on the ice and people see that...

...and think he's not trying or, worse, doesn't care.

But if you actually watch the effort and the exertion he puts out (watch his body, not his face)... and I always shake my head that people don't recognize it.

And then, take into account the fact that he DID show the scoring touch after the promotion to Jagr's line (which, much as people like to make the comparison, Isbister and other replacements never did) and then showed AGAIN when he came back (too early - love the desire that showed, despite the fact that it went unrecognized) before getting the injury reaggravated almost immediately... and I don't undersand why the detractors don't want to at least see if he can duplicate last year's season ending performance through, say the first 20-25 games into the season. If he can't repeat last year's magic, fine - demote him back down to the 3rd/4th line (where he absolutely excelled last year before being promoted, as nyr2k2 pointed out). But why you wouldn't want to first give him the chance to excel - or would want him axed completely! - is completely inconceivable to me. Sigh.

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Old
07-17-2007, 10:35 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXN View Post
For the months of February and March Hossa went 8-5-13 +6 in 15 games, playing on the top line, with average ATOI at 16:50. On this pace he could get over 30 goals over 82 games. I think he will get around 25 playing on the top line.
The only problem with this sort of projection is the assumption that Hossa can take his head out of his ass and play as if he wants to be in the NHL for an entire season. He has shown flashes of brilliance but his problem is obviously consistency and it's obviously mental. the physical skills are there - the desire is strictly Michal Grosek.

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Old
07-18-2007, 12:09 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Okay, my one post on this thread. To begin with: Fantastic post, nyr2k2 - completely agreed.

Several people earlier posted that folks on this board hate him because the name on the back of his sweater sets expectations that are too high. I used to think that was the case too... but upon reflection I don't think that's it - I think the reality is that he is SO understated and undemonstrative and THAT'S why people don't like him. If he whooped it up like Avery or even showed the emotion of Prucha, people would absolutely love him. But the fact of the matter is that he's an understated, undemonstrative, even SHY kid who doesn't waste any extra energy on the ice and people see that...

...and think he's not trying or, worse, doesn't care.

But if you actually watch the effort and the exertion he puts out (watch his body, not his face)... and I always shake my head that people don't recognize it.

And then, take into account the fact that he DID show the scoring touch after the promotion to Jagr's line (which, much as people like to make the comparison, Isbister and other replacements never did) and then showed AGAIN when he came back (too early - love the desire that showed, despite the fact that it went unrecognized) before getting the injury reaggravated almost immediately... and I don't undersand why the detractors don't want to at least see if he can duplicate last year's season ending performance through, say the first 20-25 games into the season. If he can't repeat last year's magic, fine - demote him back down to the 3rd/4th line (where he absolutely excelled last year before being promoted, as nyr2k2 pointed out). But why you wouldn't want to first give him the chance to excel - or would want him axed completely! - is completely inconceivable to me. Sigh.
Couldn't agree more

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Old
07-18-2007, 12:49 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
And who are you to tell anyone to silence themselves? The people who like Hossa have just as much of a right to talk as you.

Deal with it.

I hate people who say "end of story" like their argument was so awesome.
oh, how about this one. "Discuss." Blah blah blah, i'm so high and mighty. Discuss. Thank you for your permission sir! Wouldn't have responded without it!

How about stop underrating Hossa? He was streaky for most of the season but he put together a streak people usually call a "scoring streak" 8-5-13 over 13 games! That's a point per game over 13 games. People usually call that consistent. But then he got injured which is why we are having this discussion. Was it a fluke? Over 5 games? Maybe. But not over 13 games. You're gonna have an easier time calling the C-O-P line streaky than Hossa. That isn't to say the C-O-P line wasn't good. Just like it isn't to say Hossa isn't good either. Because he is. and not just on the score board. As other posters have pointed out, he was contributing in many other ways. Those contributions and strength are exactly what earned him time with Jagr.

And I'm gonna say this till I'm blue in the face. It's not about what line you play on. It's about your ice time and what you contribute to the team in that time. Drury on the 3rd line? Who gives a rat's as$ as long as he's getting the minutes a player of his calibre deserves both by merit and by salary. As long as he gets those top minutes, play him with however. He will contribute in all sorts of ways you can't imagine. As AXN pointed out, Hossa had 16:50 ATOI and that is fine. If he proves otherwise, you give him more or less. You know Drury will eat up minutes on the PP and PK anyways. There's no need to worry about that. Banishing Hossa to play with Betts because someone has a bigger contract? You just aren't using your pieces wisely as a coach then. You let the players (via coach) dictate the lines, NOT their salaries.

Last year, Drury was on the "third" line and shut down other teams top lines. Despite this fact, he logged ~19 minutes per game. ~21 in the playoffs.

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Old
07-18-2007, 04:27 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by bOnEs516 View Post
Couldn't agree more
count me in on this side also.

this is the most confusing part of these never-ending debates.

just because he's not a big goal-scorer some ppl think he's crap.

admittedly, some posters take it too far the other way when he does score in streaks.

why can't we be happy with the middle (for now)?

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Old
07-18-2007, 10:19 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
demote him back down to the 3rd/4th line (where he absolutely excelled last year before being promoted, as nyr2k2 pointed out). But why you wouldn't want to first give him the chance to excel - or would want him axed completely! - is completely inconceivable to me. Sigh.
First of all, saying he excelled on the 3rd line is stretching it a bit. If you want to excel on the 3rd line, then some goals have to be scored. The fact of the matter is that without Jagr, Hossa's production resembled that of Jed Ortmeyer. And if Ortmeyer is unsuited for the 3rd line becuase he cannot score more than 5 goals a year, then why would Hossa be suited for it? Sure he is the far more talented player, but at the end of the day, if he is to "excel" on the 3rd line, then wouldn't he have to score a bit?

Second of all, using the logic of giving him the chance to excel with Jagr, why shouldn't Prucha be given the same chance? Two years ago, it was Prucha that was exceling with Jagr. And the latter certainly looked no worse for having him on the line with him. Let's recall that Prucha lost that spot not due to his play, but rather becuase Renney inserted a one-armed, utterly ineffective Rucinsky back into the lineup. And, Prucha was never given the chance again. So if we are to trumpet the need to have a guy who is not anywhere near the goal scorer that Prucha is being given the chance to excel, why not the guy who managed to score all those goals in his first two years?

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07-18-2007, 10:50 PM
  #44
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Hossa has many more tangibles than Prucha, and if you look at my name, i love the kid.

BUT.

Hossa is stronger, is a horse on the puck, has great hands, is much more defensively responsible, can kill penalties, and is a much better passer. Mr. Versatile.

He was starting to put the offensive package together after he already put the defensive one together. He got re-injured almost immediately after coming back, but fought through it.

You cannot give up on this potential. Not now, when it seems this close.

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Old
07-18-2007, 10:52 PM
  #45
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Second of all, using the logic of giving him the chance to excel with Jagr, why shouldn't Prucha be given the same chance? Two years ago, it was Prucha that was exceling with Jagr. And the latter certainly looked no worse for having him on the line with him. Let's recall that Prucha lost that spot not due to his play, but rather becuase Renney inserted a one-armed, utterly ineffective Rucinsky back into the lineup. And, Prucha was never given the chance again. So if we are to trumpet the need to have a guy who is not anywhere near the goal scorer that Prucha is being given the chance to excel, why not the guy who managed to score all those goals in his first two years?
I wouldn't mind giving Prucha another look but did he look that great the first time? Prucha is more of a north/south human pinball puck pressure type. Jagr is more of the east/west puck possession perfect passer type. I like how they work together on the 1st PP unit when they have time and space. I just wish to God Renney would keep that unit together. The 1st line PP is where you'll see Prucha's drop in production. Prucha has exactly 8 less goals in his second year. Prucha coincidentally has 8 less power play goals in his second year. If Prucha can do better than Hossa, of course you put him in but if Hossa can do better than Prucha, you put him in. I also wouldn't mind 4 balanced lines Renney has confidence in putting out there so he doesn't wear Jagr and Shanahan's old bones into the ground by the end of the season.

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Old
07-20-2007, 01:41 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by King Prucha View Post
Hossa has many more tangibles than Prucha, and if you look at my name, i love the kid.

BUT.

Hossa is stronger, is a horse on the puck, has great hands, is much more defensively responsible, can kill penalties, and is a much better passer. Mr. Versatile.
All that may buy you a cup of coffee. Prucha has scored more goals in one season than Hossa has practically in his career. Next year, even with decreased ice time, he still netted more goals. Whatever attributed Hossa has, unless he can score without Jagr, he is nothing more than a 4th line player (which is where you play when your offensive output resembles that of Jed Ortmeyer).
Quote:
He was starting to put the offensive package together after he already put the defensive one together. He got re-injured almost immediately after coming back, but fought through it.

You cannot give up on this potential. Not now, when it seems this close.
He started to put what together? Scoring with Jagr? Even Isbister did that. I ask again. What is more of the aberration, the 8 goals in 11 games or the two in 50? Judging by his career, it is far more the former. Prucha, and his lesser talent, can make much more of a case for being a top-6 forward than Hossa.

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07-20-2007, 02:04 PM
  #47
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He looked good toward the end of the season, until his year was cut short. Next year, I'm hoping he can become more consistent offensively. Until then, like it's been said, he's a good utility guy, so odds are he's going to stay.

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07-20-2007, 02:18 PM
  #48
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Hossa is ounding into a great two way third liner. He has size and speed and some offense. I would rather see him on the third line excelling at a role then floundering on the first. We have a few guys like Prucha and Dawes that could be tried on the big line, give them a chance first as their game is more suuited to a make or break 1st liner then an everyday checker.

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07-20-2007, 02:20 PM
  #49
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I like Hossa. He's not great but he has flashes of good and doesn't ever hurt the team. I also trust that Renney will make the right decisions with him.

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07-20-2007, 03:55 PM
  #50
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He started to put what together? Scoring with Jagr? Even Isbister did that. I ask again. What is more of the aberration, the 8 goals in 11 games or the two in 50? Judging by his career, it is far more the former. Prucha, and his lesser talent, can make much more of a case for being a top-6 forward than Hossa.
Isbister scored?

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