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Why is Gary Suter not in the Hall of Fame?

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05-21-2017, 02:07 PM
  #51
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by puckpilot View Post
I think an argument can be made for him, but like others have said, Gretzky, Kariya---so **** Suter.
I'm not seeing it, and I am looking at it with the lens that there wasn't those cheap shots. I just never see him as a borderline guy who if he hadn't played dirty would be in. There are some players, such as Tom Barrasso, who I think are legitimately borderline but their reputation is holding them back.........so far. I don't see that with Suter.

But what is your argument in his favour?

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05-22-2017, 02:11 AM
  #52
Darth Yoda
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For whatever it is worth he did have to contend with what is arguably the greatest generation of defenders in history. Who knows, maybe he could even have snagged a single Norris in another era.

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05-22-2017, 09:37 AM
  #53
Big Phil
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
For whatever it is worth he did have to contend with what is arguably the greatest generation of defenders in history. Who knows, maybe he could even have snagged a single Norris in another era.
I don't know if that is the sort of thing that held him back. In 1988 both Bourque and Stevens with excellent seasons finished ahead of him. I understand that. But when I think of a player whose Norris finishes were hurt because of a generation of elite defenders in front of him I think of Serge Savard who was always going up against Orr, Potvin, Robinson, Salming, Lapointe, Park, etc. That's a tough nut to crack. Suter did have the Bourque/Coffey/MacInnis/Leetch/Stevens/Chelios type of era to compete with but it wasn't as if he was finishing 5th year after year either.

Housley had his highest finishes of: 3, 5, 5, 5
Suter had his highest finishes of: 3, 7, 7, 8

Neither were knocking on the door or chomping at the bit for the Norris regularly. Housley finished behind Al Iafrate in one of his best years. It wasn't just the 6-pack of 1980s/1990s guys who were in his way.

Larry Murphy has a bit more of an argument that he was playing in the wrong era at times
Murphy - 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

But even so, he blows both of those guys out of the water when it comes to the postseason that it isn't close. To me Murphy is the next best defensemen out of the 1980s/1990s era. He's the 7th guy in my mind, Suter is not.

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05-22-2017, 11:06 AM
  #54
seventieslord
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
'

Didn't top players play more minutes on average the farther back we go? I mean, Suter only has an advantage of like 36 seconds per game over Campbell in best 7 seasons, according to this.
The difference is too small to be meaningful in this case. It's really the 70s where we see scale tipping differences. 1985 and on, I really wouldn't worry about it.

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To answer your edit, I think it says more about their longevity as impact players, rather than their overall ability. Maybe I'm just arguing semantics.
Yes and no. In a "one number" argument (that number being TOI) it looks that way. They were practically even in their best 7 years, with Suter having a large career edge.

With some context added to the TOI (Suter playing on teams 24% better than average in his prime, Campbell on teams 12% better), it should demonstrate that the prime difference is definitely there too.

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Yesterday, 08:01 AM
  #55
FerrisRox
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post

I recall Suter being an integral part of the Calgary Flames for years, iincluding their Stanley Cup year.
Your recollection is wrong. He only played in the first round.

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Yesterday, 08:48 AM
  #56
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by Jets4Life View Post
I just noticed Gary Suter is not in the hall of fame. It seems odd, as when he retired, he had an impressive resume, especially from a defenseman:

-Calder Trophy 1985-86
-Stanley Cup Champion 1988-89
-5 time NHL All-Star
-Over 1,000 games played
-over 800 points for a defenseman
-2 time Olympian
-3 time participant in Canada/World Cup of Hockey

I recall Suter being an integral part of the Calgary Flames for years, iincluding their Stanley Cup year. He was also named to just about every USA team when it came to the Olympics or World Cups. So why did Suter never get into the Hall of Fame?
Only thing on that list that matters is the 800 points. 1000 games? Nice, but a lot of guys have played 1000 games that are not in the HOF. 5 all-stars? Impressive, but not enough for the HOF. Calder and the Cup are meaningless for the HHOF. 2-time Olympian and 3 Canada/World Cups aren't credentials for the HOF, either.

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Yesterday, 10:43 AM
  #57
Brewsky
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Because Wayne Gretzky said so.

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Today, 12:00 AM
  #58
The Panther
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Originally Posted by Brewsky View Post
Because Wayne Gretzky said so.
Unfortunately, if we asked Gretzky, he'd probably say something like: "That guy was really, really good. He was a Hall of Fame-level player. One of the best defenceman I ever faced."

Neil Sheehy's NHL career existed only because Bob Johnston needed a plug to knock around Gretzky and Kurri (usually after they scored). Sheehy spent 1985 to 1988 making like miserable for Wayne and Jari, including much of the 1986 series that Calgary won. Sheehy said that he ran into Gretzky in the corridor of Northlands Coliseum after the game and Gretzky said to him: "Neil, great series! You played really well. Go get the Cup!" or something to that effect. Sheehy was a bit taken aback.

To this day, Sheehy has a framed photo in his house of him roughing up Gretzky.

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