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Did Pittsburgh miscalculate how bad their defense was?

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Old
05-26-2017, 12:12 AM
  #276
Edwinger
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Originally Posted by Mike Lange Version 2 View Post
The thread title is did we miscalculate how bad our defense is. That can refer both to the players who compose the defense, or overall defensive result...which is chiefly goals against.

If the Pens have such amazing goalies that make up for bad defense, then the answer is no Rutherford did not miscalculate his defense since he would obviously know that his goalies are apparently/allegedly light years beyond other teams' goalies and wouldn't need to dump assets and overpay for defensive help.

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05-26-2017, 01:37 AM
  #277
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this thread is gold

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05-26-2017, 01:54 AM
  #278
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The Pens went 3-1 and gave up only 6 goals against in 4 games since this thread was created.

Not bad for one of the worst defenses in the league.

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05-26-2017, 04:33 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Sureves View Post
Letang is out. Schultz is out now too.

Even with those two guys healthy, the Pens have a really pathetic blueline, and Letang is honestly so made of glass that they really needed to have better depth on their roster to ensure that the exact situation they find themselves in now didn't happen.

Letang has missed 34% of games in the last 4 years (55%, 16%, 13%, 50%; from 2014 to 2017), how can they responsibly rely on this guy being literally their entire defense when he's that prone to missing games?

I mean Schultz is not a great defenseman by any stretch either despite putting up a lot of points this season.

My question is, did management drop the ball by not addressing this issue earlier in the offseason / earlier in the year / at the trade deadline? I find it perplexing that no one in the Pittsburgh organization realized how dire of a situation this was for their team.

What do you guys think? I think Pittsburgh has nobody to blame but themselves for the situation they find themselves in defensively.
Guess that's your theory down the toilet. Pens win Game 7 vs Caps 2-0. Pens beat top defensive team Ottawa 1-0 and 3-2 in overtime. Of course Pens "pathetic blueline" had nothing to do with any of that. Looks like you're the one who "miscalculated." Another fine example of why fans are not NHL coaches.

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05-26-2017, 06:41 AM
  #280
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Murray really changes that team. They know all they have to do is box out guys and he'll make the save. You just never know when Fleury is in net. That confidence helps a lot.

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05-26-2017, 07:37 AM
  #281
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Let us revisit this after another round.

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05-26-2017, 08:12 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
The Pens went 3-1 and gave up only 6 goals against in 4 games since this thread was created.

Not bad for one of the worst defenses in the league.
And allowed only 6 goals in 14 periods, and the Sens were unable to get more than 30 SOG in any of those games.

Just a terrible defensive.

I'm still not convinced they have missed Letang too much. Certainly less than the media would have you believe.

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05-26-2017, 08:15 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
And allowed only 6 goals in 14 periods lol.

Just a terrible defensive.

I'm still not convinced they have missed Letang too much. Certainly less than the media would have you believe.
His absence is almost more devastating to the teams offense than it is the to defense. We don't have anyone who can make the breakout passes he can, and he can play half the game.

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05-26-2017, 08:24 AM
  #284
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His absence is almost more devastating to the teams offense than it is the to defense. We don't have anyone who can make the breakout passes he can, and he can play half the game.
I think Schultz has shown he can move the puck pretty effectively, but certainly agree that Letang helps get that offense going at ES. But he's pretty bad on the PP and is prone to so many defensive brain farts that I don't know if he'd have been too missed, especially vs such an opportunistic team like the senators.

I'd rate his impact as:

ES offense +++
ES defense - -
PP -

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05-26-2017, 08:26 AM
  #285
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They almost fell to the Sens 1-3-1 trap because without Letang they have no one to power their transition game. That's how important he is. Because of age or injury Daley isn't the player he was last year and can't replace those big minutes. Schultz is good on the PP and has a better shot than Letang but in overall play it's a big drop-off. The Pens play markedly different (and worse) than they did last year. And that is because they are missing their motor on the back end.

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05-26-2017, 08:28 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
I think Schultz has shown he can move the puck pretty effectively, but certainly agree that Letang helps get that offense going at ES. But he's pretty bad on the PP and is prone to so many defensive brain farts that I don't know if he'd have been too missed, especially vs such an opportunistic team like the senators.

I'd rate his impact as:

ES offense +++
ES defense - -
PP -
You think Letang is a below average ES defender??

Letang is a top 5 ES defenseman in the NHL. His PP game leaves much to be desired at times, but he's an absolute beast 5 on 5 at both ends of the ice.

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05-26-2017, 08:31 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Pick87your71Poison View Post
You think Letang is a below average ES defender??

Letang is a top 5 ES defenseman in the NHL. His PP game leaves much to be desired at times, but he's an absolute beast 5 on 5 at both ends of the ice.
Yes I do think he's a very below average defender. He's great in 1-1 battles because of his athleticism but his positioning and puck management leave much to be desired.

It's just the way I see it, and I recognize that my opinion likely differs from the majority.

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05-26-2017, 09:03 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
Yes I do think he's a very below average defender. He's great in 1-1 battles because of his athleticism but his positioning and puck management leave much to be desired.

It's just the way I see it, and I recognize that my opinion likely differs from the majority.
What makes him a below average es defender in your opinion?
I completely disagree with you but still wanna get why you think like this.

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05-26-2017, 09:23 AM
  #289
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Pens gave up FIVE total shots through the 2 OT's.

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05-26-2017, 11:30 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Daeni10 View Post
What makes him a below average es defender in your opinion?
I completely disagree with you but still wanna get why you think like this.
His poor puck management and in zone coverage. He's prone to bad giveaways and brain farts. Sometimes he tries to do too much as well.

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05-26-2017, 11:55 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Beau Knows View Post
His absence is almost more devastating to the teams offense than it is the to defense. We don't have anyone who can make the breakout passes he can, and he can play half the game.
For the PP, Schultz and Daley have filled in nicely. We don't really miss him joining the rush and Daley is pretty good at that himself.

Defensively, Letang is a beast. All those times you saw teams cycle in the Penguins zone with Pens looking in trouble, with Letang at least 1/2 of those don't happen.

All the F you see dropping down behind the blue line, also gets cut down in 1/2. We clearly miss his breakout passes.

He's that dominant, for the Penguins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
His poor puck management and in zone coverage. He's prone to bad giveaways and brain farts. Sometimes he tries to do too much as well.
Maybe 3 years ago. He still tries to do too much, but his skating ability makes up for most of it. He wasn't a Norris candidate for nothing.

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05-26-2017, 12:17 PM
  #292
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Maybe 3 years ago. He still tries to do too much, but his skating ability makes up for most of it. He wasn't a Norris candidate for nothing.
I agree he's been much better under Sullivan. I still don't see him as an above average defensive player. But his ability to create offense and drive the play are certainly among the top in the league, which is why he was a Norris candidate. Very rarely does that trophy relate to the defensive prowess of a defender.

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05-26-2017, 12:23 PM
  #293
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
Yes I do think he's a very below average defender. He's great in 1-1 battles because of his athleticism but his positioning and puck management leave much to be desired.

It's just the way I see it, and I recognize that my opinion likely differs from the majority.
You clearly do not watch eastern conference or specifically penguins games since the beginning of Letangs career. Just wanted to say you have a bad opinion. IMO most athletic/conditioned NHL player in the league.

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Old
05-26-2017, 12:27 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by BlacknGold4life View Post
You clearly do not watch eastern conference or specifically penguins games since the beginning of Letangs career. Just wanted to say you have a bad opinion. IMO most athletic/conditioned NHL player in the league.
Thanks, but I watch a ton of penguins games. He is a tremendous athlete. That doesn't make him a good defensive defenseman.

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05-26-2017, 12:31 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
Thanks, but I watch a ton of penguins games. He is a tremendous athlete. That doesn't make him a good defensive defenseman.
He is at least as good as Subban.

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05-26-2017, 12:43 PM
  #296
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He is at least as good as Subban.
They're not incomparable, to be sure. I like Subban more for his shot though.

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05-26-2017, 01:40 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
Thanks, but I watch a ton of penguins games. He is a tremendous athlete. That doesn't make him a good defensive defenseman.
So a guy stares at a rock for 30 years and thinks that makes him a geologist. Fact of the matter is Letang has ranked very high on many defensive analytical metrics and considering he's basically the teams' point guard on offense when he's healthy, he carried their biggest load.

Also playing keep away with the puck is part of the defensive game and he's elite at that.

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05-26-2017, 02:03 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by powelladam02 View Post
So a guy stares at a rock for 30 years and thinks that makes him a geologist. Fact of the matter is Letang has ranked very high on many defensive analytical metrics and considering he's basically the teams' point guard on offense when he's healthy, he carried their biggest load.

Also playing keep away with the puck is part of the defensive game and he's elite at that.
I never claimed to be an expert. I'm just sharing my opinion on the player, an opinion which I've already stated is not shared my the majority​.

The pens seem to be doing ok without him, so perhaps I'm not completely wrong in questioning his importance to the team.

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05-26-2017, 02:38 PM
  #299
Sidney the Kidney
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
His poor puck management and in zone coverage.
The former you might have a bit of a case (he'll over-handle the puck or make risky passes), but I don't agree with the latter. Letang's pretty good at in zone coverage, and the few times he misses coverage, his skating allows him to recover.

Is Letang on Vlasic's level? No. But I'd say, defensively, he's as good as the other elite guys like Karlsson, Subban, Josi, etc.

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