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Stastny to Edmonton

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Old
07-23-2013, 03:46 PM
  #151
dahrougem2
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Originally Posted by ABasin View Post
I'd take Smid in a heartbeat, but I don't think Stastny would bring that return.

Avs fans expectations on a Stastny trade are nutty, IMO. 60 point two-way players definitely have trade value, but they're different than 80 point two-way players. I think the opinion you have is the crux of why Avs fans seem so very out of touch with everyone else when it comes to Stastny - we as a collective group still see the 79 point guy of 4 years ago, where the rest of the world sees the 50-60 point guy that has existed since. We Avs fans as a group do the exact same damn thing with Erik Johnson. Everyone cites that same '09-10 season (in which Stastny scored 79 points), and sees EJ's 40ish points and expects that to miraculously return.

Well, in that same '09-10 season, Wolski scored 65 points. How insane would I be to suggest that he's ripe to return to that scoring level next season? Well, that's how we Avs fans sound to everyone else.

If traded now, Stastny will bring a 2nd pairing defenseman back. Perhaps a #4 plus a pick. That's it.
No, it is not going to bring back a #4 plus a pick, because that would have already been completed by now in order to improve the defense corps and play O'Reilly at center. You wanna know why Avs fans want something better? It's not like Stastny had those great seasons of 70+ points and then fell into abyss only to put up 20-30 points. He is year in and year out one of the Avs' top scorers even though playing for Joe Sacco has limited him. People underestimate what a coach can do to a player. For some reason, Sacco decided to use him in the world championships as a scorer and look how well Stastny produced playing with David Moss and Craig Smith. Now he is being given Landeskog and Tanguay, as well as the opportunity to play offensive, and likely not as a primary 3rd line defensive center.

If Stastny only puts up 40-50 points, then I'll concede that he is overpaid and couldn't even land a guy like Smid. But until I see that this season under Roy, I can't say it, nor do I expect anything less than a #3 defenseman coming back for him

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07-23-2013, 04:00 PM
  #152
vespa99
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Originally Posted by Bill Waters View Post
i guess you haven't been following the stastny to toronto threads...only an over payment will get you stastny
With his contract and lacklustre production I would think almost anything you give them could be considered an overpayment

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07-23-2013, 05:07 PM
  #153
Lonewolfe2015
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
With his contract and lacklustre production I would think almost anything you give them could be considered an overpayment
RNH scored as many points as Stastny last season.

Want to swap lackluster centers?

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07-23-2013, 05:20 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
RNH scored as many points as Stastny last season.

Want to swap lackluster centers?
but you forgot to mention Stastny was only lackluster on the 3rd line

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Old
07-23-2013, 05:47 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
RNH scored as many points as Stastny last season.

Want to swap lackluster centers?
RNH was a sophomore. Stastny was a 26/27-year-old. Players, and especially forwards, generally don't improve a ton after that.

You should know all about young guys having off years after seeing Duchene. It doesn't necessarily affect their long-term ability.

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07-23-2013, 05:57 PM
  #156
Lonewolfe2015
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Originally Posted by 5RingsAndABeer View Post
RNH was a sophomore. Stastny was a 26/27-year-old. Players, and especially forwards, generally don't improve a ton after that.

You should know all about young guys having off years after seeing Duchene. It doesn't necessarily affect their long-term ability.
You should know I was being sarcastic and poking fun at the fact that a young skilled guy like RNH putting up the same number of points as a 'declining' and 'lackluster' center such as Stastny isn't grounds for having one's comment called out.

RNH will be better, but exactly a year ago I compared RNH's career trajectory to that of Stastny's so I'll be keeping a close eye on him in the future to see if his peak and/or performance is any better or worse than Stastny's. Good thing of course, P/G playmaking 2-way center with a 20 goal shot that will be a long term 60-70 point option so long as he's #1/#2.

My point was a lot more elegant without being explained though.

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Old
07-23-2013, 06:50 PM
  #157
ABasin
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Originally Posted by dahrougem2 View Post
If Stastny only puts up 40-50 points, then I'll concede that he is overpaid and couldn't even land a guy like Smid. But until I see that this season under Roy, I can't say it, nor do I expect anything less than a #3 defenseman coming back for him
As Freudian correctly said, playing alongside Landeskog and Tanguay, Stastny has no excuse to not put up some good points this season. Keeping Stastny may very well be the best thing for the Avs to do. I'm simply responding to a trade suggestion about moving him now.

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07-23-2013, 11:39 PM
  #158
vespa99
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
RNH scored as many points as Stastny last season.

Want to swap lackluster centers?
I know you were not seriously comparing a 19 yr old player that was playing with a bum shoulder all year that required surgery to a 26 year old vet that has been declining at a pretty steady pace. My point stands. Stastny has become a serious disappointment. Maybe he gets his game back but as of the last 3 years he is grossly overpaid. One bad year is one thing but 3 in a row is something else. If I was a Gm of any team I would only want him if he came real cheap in terms of assets. It would just be a gamble that he may get back to his old self.

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07-24-2013, 12:01 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
I know you were not seriously comparing a 19 yr old player that was playing with a bum shoulder all year that required surgery to a 26 year old vet that has been declining at a pretty steady pace. My point stands. Stastny has become a serious disappointment. Maybe he gets his game back but as of the last 3 years he is grossly overpaid. One bad year is one thing but 3 in a row is something else. If I was a Gm of any team I would only want him if he came real cheap in terms of assets. It would just be a gamble that he may get back to his old self.
Just feel free to include somewhere in this post "In my limited viewings of Stastny..." or "When Colorado comes to town this is my opinion on him.." to cover the gross lack of knowledge on his career over the past few years and this post would be more understandable. Pretending to be an expert after reading a few stat lines, jumping on the uninformed Maple Leaf bandwagon and calling it a day should not be considered acceptable for someone looking to be taken seriously on HFBoards.

RNH has a bum shoulder but plays with 1st line talent and puts up 1st line assists. Stastny plays with 3rd and 4th line talent, puts up the kind of goal totals one might expect from a #1/2 playmaking center (~20+ goals a season) but his assist totals fall with respect to the quality of his teammates and the unpredictable happens, he actually decreases in overall points.... despite improving his defensive play, play away from the puck and faceoff ability since the point where he was a P/G playmaking center.

I will reiterate this again, there's at least 20 other teams in the league that wish their #2 center put up the points Stastny does with the defensive game he does. If he's making 4mil per year people have no problem with him, but because he's lost top linemates due to the Avs depth at center since he signed his big contract he has all of a sudden become a trade forum whipping boy.

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07-24-2013, 12:11 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
I know you were not seriously comparing a 19 yr old player that was playing with a bum shoulder all year that required surgery to a 26 year old vet that has been declining at a pretty steady pace. My point stands. Stastny has become a serious disappointment. Maybe he gets his game back but as of the last 3 years he is grossly overpaid. One bad year is one thing but 3 in a row is something else. If I was a Gm of any team I would only want him if he came real cheap in terms of assets. It would just be a gamble that he may get back to his old self.
Can yall stop that. Staz' numbers dropped abruptly after Stewie got traded away. Since then he's put up 57 and 53 before this past shortened season, where he was ~50 point pace playing with **** wingers in a more defensive role. There's been nothing steady about his statistical decline.

It's not like his play has gotten any worse, still scores the same 20 goals a year, still has the strong two-way game and still feeds some juicy passes to his wingers, only his assist totals have changed, and going from Smyth, Hejduk and Stewart to Jones, Palushaj and Mitchell, might just explain why those passes that used to become assists now only lead to some hilarious whiffs.

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Old
07-24-2013, 12:17 AM
  #161
vespa99
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Just feel free to include somewhere in this post "In my limited viewings of Stastny..." or "When Colorado comes to town this is my opinion on him.." to cover the gross lack of knowledge on his career over the past few years and this post would be more understandable. Pretending to be an expert after reading a few stat lines, jumping on the uninformed Maple Leaf bandwagon and calling it a day should not be considered acceptable for someone looking to be taken seriously on HFBoards.

RNH has a bum shoulder but plays with 1st line talent and puts up 1st line assists. Stastny plays with 3rd and 4th line talent, puts up the kind of goal totals one might expect from a #1/2 playmaking center (~20+ goals a season) but his assist totals fall with respect to the quality of his teammates and the unpredictable happens, he actually decreases in overall points.... despite improving his defensive play, play away from the puck and faceoff ability since the point where he was a P/G playmaking center.

I will reiterate this again, there's at least 20 other teams in the league that wish their #2 center put up the points Stastny does with the defensive game he does. If he's making 4mil per year people have no problem with him, but because he's lost top linemates due to the Avs depth at center since he signed his big contract he has all of a sudden become a trade forum whipping boy.
I am knocking his performance to contract ratio. I am not saying he is a bum. You can frame it however you want but the fact is he is no longer playing like a top line center. He is an average 2nd line center at this point. At well over 6 mill a year he is worth very little in a trade IMO. But it is only my opinion. You are right. If he was making 4 Mill per I would have no problem giving up assets for him. But the fact is he is not. And my best guess is he will not sign a long term contract in that range. If he was willing to sign a 4 year 16 mill extension as part of a trade then I would give up some cream for him. But I expect he will still expect to get paid like a first liner Even though he is not.

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07-24-2013, 12:46 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by vespa99 View Post
I am knocking his performance to contract ratio. I am not saying he is a bum. You can frame it however you want but the fact is he is no longer playing like a top line center. He is an average 2nd line center at this point. At well over 6 mill a year he is worth very little in a trade IMO. But it is only my opinion. You are right. If he was making 4 Mill per I would have no problem giving up assets for him. But the fact is he is not. And my best guess is he will not sign a long term contract in that range. If he was willing to sign a 4 year 16 mill extension as part of a trade then I would give up some cream for him. But I expect he will still expect to get paid like a first liner Even though he is not.
You're confusing playing and producing a lot, and that's leading you to some very misinformed opinions.

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