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Sedins to DET

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Old
05-22-2014, 10:29 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by nlnl09 View Post
Managements goal is to win the Stanley cup, no team currently in contention is thinking about 2020 especially when a trade opportunity comes around that sends only one current roster player the other way.
I suppose that's why there's a 10+ year gap between Detroit and the next closest team in terms of consecutive playoff appearances...

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05-22-2014, 10:58 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan4013 View Post
I suppose that's why there's a 10+ year gap between Detroit and the next closest team in terms of consecutive playoff appearances...
There's a huge reason Detroit has been so successful over the last 23 years, I think has a lot to do with management making a commitment to surround their players they drafted like Yzerman, Lidstrom, fedorov with impact players like Shannahan, Larry Murphy, Chris Chelios, Hasek, Mathieu Schnedier through trades to put them over the top

Detroit's done an excellent job drafting and developing over the years, this trade doesn't empty the cupboard either. Totally fine if Detroit fans don't want them, but it would definitely open up that Stanley cup window for the next couple years.

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05-22-2014, 11:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
One of the worst mistakes Vancouver made as a franchise was building their team around the twins.

Won't be able to trade them now.
Wut... Ya building around Hart and Art Ross winners is a bad thing.

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05-22-2014, 11:27 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by nlnl09 View Post
There's a huge reason Detroit has been so successful over the last 23 years, I think has a lot to do with management making a commitment to surround their players they drafted like Yzerman, Lidstrom, fedorov with impact players like Shannahan, Larry Murphy, Chris Chelios, Hasek, Mathieu Schnedier through trades to put them over the top

Detroit's done an excellent job drafting and developing over the years, this trade doesn't empty the cupboard either. Totally fine if Detroit fans don't want them, but it would definitely open up that Stanley cup window for the next couple years.
Shanahan had the most lasting impact of the guys mentioned and he was 26 when they acquired him. (Compared to the Sedins at 34) Part of acquiring Shanahan, Chelios, and Schneider was a 1st round pick, which Holland has already said is something that can't be easily given up anymore because of the cap era. (Which makes the Quincey trade that much more of a head-scratcher)

Hasek was signed. Both times. Murphy was had for pretty much zilch.

Detroit acquires two 34 year old top line forwards, which is great... Except they're giving up a 23 year old top six forward, a 19 year old who's probably going to be a top line forward, the 15th overall pick, and a top four potential defender.

I'll keep what they're giving up every day. And that hasn't even accounted for what they'll have to do to make that work with the salary cap.

Would the Sedins make Detroit a better team next season? Sure. But I don't think people really realize just how good of a team Detroit will be already with Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Nyquist/Franzen/Jurco/Tatar/Sheahan and then the addition of Mantha soon. That's ridiculous forward depth and is much more manageable than adding $15M of the Sedins. Not to mention Mantha and Tatar are going to be around long after the Sedins have retired.

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05-22-2014, 11:57 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Hockeyfan4013 View Post
Shanahan had the most lasting impact of the guys mentioned and he was 26 when they acquired him. (Compared to the Sedins at 34) Part of acquiring Shanahan, Chelios, and Schneider was a 1st round pick, which Holland has already said is something that can't be easily given up anymore because of the cap era. (Which makes the Quincey trade that much more of a head-scratcher)

Hasek was signed. Both times. Murphy was had for pretty much zilch.

Detroit acquires two 34 year old top line forwards, which is great... Except they're giving up a 23 year old top six forward, a 19 year old who's probably going to be a top line forward, the 15th overall pick, and a top four potential defender.

I'll keep what they're giving up every day. And that hasn't even accounted for what they'll have to do to make that work with the salary cap.

Would the Sedins make Detroit a better team next season? Sure. But I don't think people really realize just how good of a team Detroit will be already with Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Nyquist/Franzen/Jurco/Tatar/Sheahan and then the addition of Mantha soon. That's ridiculous forward depth and is much more manageable than adding $15M of the Sedins. Not to mention Mantha and Tatar are going to be around long after the Sedins have retired.
Buffalo Sabres traded Dominik Hasek to the Detroit Red Wings for Vyacheslav Kozlov, a 1st round selection in 2002 and future considerations.

I have high hopes for Mantha and Tatar as well, but truth be told they are still prospects, where their future is unknown.

I see them moving into that real impact top-6 role after 2-3 seasons which will likely be when Zetterberg and Datsyuk's careers start to transition into a secondary role or come to an end.

I'd definitely have to say being a Canucks fan my view is likely off from Detroits fan base. We have not been lucky enough to watch our team win 4 cups in the last 20 years and I wish we could of brought in some big name players while we still had the chance .

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05-23-2014, 12:05 AM
  #31
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Hell to the no. I love the Sedin's, don't get me wrong, but their combined salary cap hit of 14 million is just too much(especially to a team like the Wings). We wouldn't sell the farm for them. Sorry.

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05-23-2014, 12:07 AM
  #32
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The Sedin's stock is as low as it has been in over a decade.

They will likely have bounce-back seasons next year and the Canucks can ship them off at the deadline if they wish to do so.

Trading them now would make no sense.

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05-23-2014, 12:23 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlnl09 View Post
Buffalo Sabres traded Dominik Hasek to the Detroit Red Wings for Vyacheslav Kozlov, a 1st round selection in 2002 and future considerations.

I have high hopes for Mantha and Tatar as well, but truth be told they are still prospects, where their future is unknown.

I see them moving into that real impact top-6 role after 2-3 seasons which will likely be when Zetterberg and Datsyuk's careers start to transition into a secondary role or come to an end.

I'd definitely have to say being a Canucks fan my view is likely off from Detroits fan base. We have not been lucky enough to watch our team win 4 cups in the last 20 years and I wish we could of brought in some big name players while we still had the chance .
Hmm. For some reason I was thinking Hasek was signed the other time as well.

Wouldn't really consider Tatar a prospect at this point though. He was a decent second line/solid third line player this season who should improve down the road.

As for Mantha, I'd imagine whenever he hits the NHL it'd be a top 6 role playing wing for either Datsyuk or Zetterberg. I don't see them bringing him up to play 3rd line.

And surprising as it may seem, that could be sooner rather than later. Babcock seems to think the world of him.

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05-23-2014, 01:33 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nlnl09 View Post
Buffalo Sabres traded Dominik Hasek to the Detroit Red Wings for Vyacheslav Kozlov, a 1st round selection in 2002 and future considerations.

I have high hopes for Mantha and Tatar as well, but truth be told they are still prospects, where their future is unknown.

I see them moving into that real impact top-6 role after 2-3 seasons which will likely be when Zetterberg and Datsyuk's careers start to transition into a secondary role or come to an end.

I'd definitely have to say being a Canucks fan my view is likely off from Detroits fan base. We have not been lucky enough to watch our team win 4 cups in the last 20 years and I wish we could of brought in some big name players while we still had the chance .
It's too much. Yes the Sedin's are great players but their contracts and declining play make it a huge gamble for Detroit. Their best days are behind them. Those prospects are extremely key pieces to Detroit's future. Yes all prospects are unknowns until they prove themselves but most reasonable Wings fans are willing to bet these prospects are going to be solid NHL players. We have no reason to think they won't become good players. Playing at a high level at a young age in the AHL usually indicates a player has NHL talent. They simply display the skills one looks for in quality NHL players. Probably why you are interested in acquiring them. Mantha hasn't had a chance in the pros yet but he's just too intriguing of a prospect to give up to only realistically better our cup odds for a couple years.

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05-23-2014, 07:30 AM
  #35
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Babcock would probably refuse to re-sign if Mantha was traded, lol.

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Old
05-23-2014, 07:33 AM
  #36
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why would vancouver do this in the first place?

ouldnt the arguement be made for both teams that it helps them compete today?

the difference is detroit started restocking its cupboard years ago and is now very deep and talented despite not needing top 10 picks whereas vancouver is starting to do it today.

so essentially this canucks poster wants detroit to kickstart vancouvers rebuild so five years from now the canucks are sitting pretty while detroit is once again trying to retool on the fly.

is that about right?

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05-23-2014, 07:36 AM
  #37
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If the Wings do this, we're in the bottom five of the league within five years.

Wings pass.

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05-23-2014, 08:03 AM
  #38
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Thanks, but no. As others have mentioned, it would make no sense to sell the farm for two players past the peak of their careers, not to mention that their new contracts are pretty awful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shotsavereboundSCORE View Post
Four more years at 4.9 mil cap hit. Figure in two years its more akin to a 3-3.5 mil cap hit. IMO Weiss in this deal makes the money work better and gives the Canucks someone to ice at center, assuming they move Kesler too
Cap hit is based on contract AAV. Weiss's cap hit is $4.9m for his entire contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by icKx View Post
So Vancouver should have done what, traded back-to-back Art Ross winners for prospects and picks rather than try and win with them?
The Canucks' management strategy revolved the team around the Sedins. They couldn't possibly let those two go in free agency, and there was never any possibility of splitting them up, so the Canucks were forced to dole out two oversized contracts to players who will be 38 by the time those contracts end. More, they've both got full NMCs, so they could and probably would opt to reject a trade anyway.

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05-23-2014, 08:06 AM
  #39
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Big no.

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05-23-2014, 10:38 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Crymson View Post
Thanks, but no. As others have mentioned, it would make no sense to sell the farm for two players past the peak of their careers, not to mention that their new contracts are pretty awful.



Cap hit is based on contract AAV. Weiss's cap hit is $4.9m for his entire contract.



The Canucks' management strategy revolved the team around the Sedins. They couldn't possibly let those two go in free agency, and there was never any possibility of splitting them up, so the Canucks were forced to dole out two oversized contracts to players who will be 38 by the time those contracts end. More, they've both got full NMCs, so they could and probably would opt to reject a trade anyway.
1. I agree. Detroit should want no part of the 34-year old Sedins. Particularly not at the cost of Mantha, Tatar, Sproul, and a 1st. If they were 27 and we weren't in a capped league? I'd do it. But neither of those is true.

2. What he meant was that 3.5M AAV is to 64M Cap as 4.9M AAV is to 75M+ Cap. Not that Weiss's contract would literally become a 3.5M AAV deal.

3. Vancouver damn near won a Cup with them. There are definitely worse pieces that you could build a team around than two players capable of ripping off 100+ point seasons. It's killing them NOW that they decided to build around the Sedins because they're declining and still have big dollar deals, but they got a good long while of superstar play from those two. Vancouver's problems are because they mismanaged the hell out of their goalie situation and that they haven't been preparing for the day the Sedins would slow down, not the fact they chose to build around them in the first place.

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05-23-2014, 10:54 AM
  #41
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Detroit says "hell no."

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05-23-2014, 11:14 AM
  #42
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Don't see the Sedins ever being dealt in the same deal together.

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05-23-2014, 11:37 AM
  #43
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I can still see the Sedins wanting to go to Detroit in the last year of their contracts if Detroit is in a position to contend. Before then though their probably won't be a sensible trade for both sides.

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Old
05-23-2014, 11:39 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Nazemlupul View Post
Pretty bad for wings. They sell the farm for a couple of good years left in the Sedins.
And they may not even get "good years" out of them.

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05-23-2014, 11:46 AM
  #45
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If the Wings could somehow pull off getting the Sedins without moving Mantha or Nyquist (which seems incredibly unlikely) I actually think it's something worth considering. As strong as deep as their farm system is I'm not sure all those kids are going to turn into a cup contending team. Pairing the Sedins with Mantha to go along with a line that has Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Nyquist gives them a nightmare of a top 6 to try and match up with.

Defense is a bigger area of need, I agree but it's also very difficult to build your defense through trades or free agency simply because of the cost involved.

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Old
05-25-2014, 12:16 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TrillMike View Post
Don't see the Sedins ever being dealt in the same deal together.
Don't see anybody dealing for them separately.

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