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Do the Pens need to Acquire More Players?

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Old
08-02-2014, 05:45 PM
  #326
NMK11
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Originally Posted by iFishyHD View Post
Yeah, but Fluery was good last year, average to OK in the playoffs, but he didn't **** the bed and score on himself. You just made it sound like JR had a **** offseason, which he didn't. I am sure JR didn't fix the bottom 6, and make his other moves and said, that was an offseason, I'm done. No **** we need a winger, that's the thing everybody can agree about.

Look at every other teams offseason and think, did they make patch every hole and fill all there needs this offseason. I would look at every team and say, NOPE.
Dude, I'm agreeing with you...

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08-02-2014, 05:47 PM
  #327
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Dude, I'm agreeing with you...
That was more for JR should resign...

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08-02-2014, 07:14 PM
  #328
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That was more for JR should resign...
Resign. Re-sign. Had to read that twice.

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08-02-2014, 07:59 PM
  #329
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Resign. Re-sign. Had to read that twice.
Yeah. For me it's re-sign so far, but whatever .


Last edited by iFishyHD: 08-02-2014 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Re-Sign not resign for ffs
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Old
08-02-2014, 10:31 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
We have built under the idea that Sid and Geno can make their wingers better for years when we should be thinking how our wingers can make Sid and Geno better.
I think this is an excellent summary of what has been the case over the past several years...

Well stated IMO. HOPEFULLY, some combination of Sutter/Dupuis/Scuderi and prospects/picks -- or even Martin, if necessary (though I hate to see him go), can land us a quality piece for the top 6 that CAN help make Sid/Geno better...

Steve

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08-05-2014, 02:18 AM
  #331
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I think this is an excellent summary of what has been the case over the past several years...

Well stated IMO. HOPEFULLY, some combination of Sutter/Dupuis/Scuderi and prospects/picks -- or even Martin, if necessary (though I hate to see him go), can land us a quality piece for the top 6 that CAN help make Sid/Geno better...

Steve
I think we should all take a moment to reflect on the notion of any one capable of making those two better. I mean, this is Sid and Geno, the very notion of them getting better would and should terrify the entire league. As a Pens fan I pray for at least a new LW. As a hockey fan who likes parity, I hope they don't. Sid and Geno + star caliber wingers is akin to finding a Unicorn that is also a Pegasus.

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08-05-2014, 06:15 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Klifton View Post
I think we should all take a moment to reflect on the notion of any one capable of making those two better. I mean, this is Sid and Geno, the very notion of them getting better would and should terrify the entire league. As a Pens fan I pray for at least a new LW. As a hockey fan who likes parity, I hope they don't. Sid and Geno + star caliber wingers is akin to finding a Unicorn that is also a Pegasus.
Ryan Malone made Geno better. Max Talbot made Geno better. Kunitz in 3rd wheel support mode makes either Sid or Geno better. We aren't referring to superstars when we talk about wings that make our centers better; just good complimentary skillsets. This is exactly why so many of us wanted Kulemin.

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08-05-2014, 08:50 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by joeyjake5 View Post
Bennett is nothing more, nothing less than an unproven injury prone prospect.

He may or may not develop into a top 6 F. This year is his chance to prove his supporters right or wrong. If he doesn't produce, say 40 points, the pens will probably walk away from him. He will either make it this year or prove to be a bust.
Amen. Kid has talent......for 30 games/season. Lost his ability to shot the puck with the wrist thing, and I think this has cemented him into a 3rd line role as his ceiling. If he can greatly improve his shot AND his ability to generate shots, then he is a legitimate 2nd line player. Until that happens, he is a 3rd line player for life in my book. This team needs shooters...you know....like James Neal. .

He just isn't good enough at any one thing (outside of checking, which isn't that valuable). He can flatten people, for sure.

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Old
08-05-2014, 09:07 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Ryan Malone made Geno better. Max Talbot made Geno better. Kunitz in 3rd wheel support mode makes either Sid or Geno better. We aren't referring to superstars when we talk about wings that make our centers better; just good complimentary skillsets. This is exactly why so many of us wanted Kulemin.
Malkin with Ryan Malone GF% 51%
Malkin without Ryan Malone GF% 61%

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...007-09&sit=5v5

Don't see how Malone made Malkin better there over those 2 seasons. Malkin is clearly (10% to be exact) more effective without Malone on the ice. Malkin didn't even play enough with Talbot to have data on it, so "we", meaning you, are basing that Talbot opinion on a single game 7, SCF. It was a great result and won us the SC, but that is very little to go on.

Sykora, JJ, and Neal made Malkin much better. There is significant data to support that statement. In general, the better the winger, the better they will make the other players around them. Malkin has typically excelled the most with sniper style wingers, not "grinders".


Last edited by wgknestrick: 08-05-2014 at 09:19 AM.
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Old
08-05-2014, 12:14 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Malkin with Ryan Malone GF% 51%
Malkin without Ryan Malone GF% 61%

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/show...007-09&sit=5v5

Don't see how Malone made Malkin better there over those 2 seasons. Malkin is clearly (10% to be exact) more effective without Malone on the ice. Malkin didn't even play enough with Talbot to have data on it, so "we", meaning you, are basing that Talbot opinion on a single game 7, SCF. It was a great result and won us the SC, but that is very little to go on.

Sykora, JJ, and Neal made Malkin much better. There is significant data to support that statement. In general, the better the winger, the better they will make the other players around them. Malkin has typically excelled the most with sniper style wingers, not "grinders".
He's excelled with one of each. Malone and Sykora. Kunitz and Neal. Hell, Feds and Talbot. He has not done as well with double sniper/skill guys such as Sullivan and Neal, Iginla and Neal or Jussi and Neal.

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08-10-2014, 01:24 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
He's excelled with one of each. Malone and Sykora. Kunitz and Neal. Hell, Feds and Talbot. He has not done as well with double sniper/skill guys such as Sullivan and Neal, Iginla and Neal or Jussi and Neal.
Correct, that is why I am really glad to see Jussi leave. KMN was a beauty and I cant see why they did not continue with that going forward. Find something new for Crosby, he is talented enough to adapt as long as he plays with someone who is fast enough.

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08-10-2014, 01:30 PM
  #337
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Correct, that is why I am really glad to see Jussi leave. KMN was a beauty and I cant see why they did not continue with that going forward. Find something new for Crosby, he is talented enough to adapt as long as he plays with someone who is fast enough.
I was in so much agreement, then you went and said that. I still have vague memories of winning the Cup with Billy Guerin on Sid's wing. Speed is nice, but its not some absolute necessity to play with Sid.

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08-10-2014, 02:43 PM
  #338
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Not right now. I think we have a good team. Let's wait and see what happens.

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08-10-2014, 09:07 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I was in so much agreement, then you went and said that. I still have vague memories of winning the Cup with Billy Guerin on Sid's wing. Speed is nice, but its not some absolute necessity to play with Sid.
While that might be true, Billy G. with the puck on his stick in motion is where a lot of plays died, but if he pulls up or sends off a pass, he's good in those circumstances. He had the smarts most times to know his limitations and on how to keep the play moving forward.

I just remember countless times where he held onto the puck and he got cut off rather quickly trying to do it all alone.

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Old
08-10-2014, 09:20 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
While that might be true, Billy G. with the puck on his stick in motion is where a lot of plays died, but if he pulls up or sends off a pass, he's good in those circumstances. He had the smarts most times to know his limitations and on how to keep the play moving forward.

I just remember countless times where he held onto the puck and he got cut off rather quickly trying to do it all alone.
But he was still more effective than the majority of the faster guys Sid has played with. Obviously, speed is a good thing. I'm just saying its not some chiseled in stone requirement. Dupuis has a lot of speed, but he's not nearly as good with Sid as slow old Billy G was.

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08-11-2014, 05:45 AM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
But he was still more effective than the majority of the faster guys Sid has played with. Obviously, speed is a good thing. I'm just saying its not some chiseled in stone requirement. Dupuis has a lot of speed, but he's not nearly as good with Sid as slow old Billy G was.
I'm not sure we have the same memories of that season there.

Dupuis has been (and frankly still is) better than washed up Guerin was for the season he played on Sid's wing. I don't know where you're getting that from. So many plays were botched because Guerin couldn't keep up with the speed of Sid, plus he was a liability.

Neither Dupuis or Guerin are ideals here, but it's a stretch to hold up Billy G as an example of an effective slow player on Sid's wing. Many people spent that entire season praying that something non-fatal would happen to keep Guerin off of that line.

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08-11-2014, 05:55 AM
  #342
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I'm not sure we have the same memories of that season there.

Dupuis has been (and frankly still is) better than washed up Guerin was for the season he played on Sid's wing. I don't know where you're getting that from. So many plays were botched because Guerin couldn't keep up with the speed of Sid, plus he was a liability.

Neither Dupuis or Guerin are ideals here, but it's a stretch to hold up Billy G as an example of an effective slow player on Sid's wing. Many people spent that entire season praying that something non-fatal would happen to keep Guerin off of that line.
the full season, sure. Guerin's play fell off a cliff. The Cup run? No, Dupuis has never been close to that effective. And no, neither was ever ideal. The ideal player would be fast and talented.

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08-11-2014, 06:29 AM
  #343
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the full season, sure. Guerin's play fell off a cliff. The Cup run? No, Dupuis has never been close to that effective. And no, neither was ever ideal. The ideal player would be fast and talented.
Aha, I get ya.

I'm still of the opinion that what Sid needs from his linemates aren't necessarily skill or speed, but positional awareness. I think why KCD works like it does isn't because those two are anywhere near ideal, but they've adapted to Sid well enough to know how to cause disruptions and be ready when he needs them to be, most of the time.

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08-11-2014, 09:36 AM
  #344
Ogrezilla
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Aha, I get ya.

I'm still of the opinion that what Sid needs from his linemates aren't necessarily skill or speed, but positional awareness. I think why KCD works like it does isn't because those two are anywhere near ideal, but they've adapted to Sid well enough to know how to cause disruptions and be ready when he needs them to be, most of the time.
That's reasonable certainly. He needs guys who are smart enough to know what he might do, and who are ready to get passes that most players can't make. I think everyone has trouble with him at first because he just makes atypical plays pretty often. How often do you see a new wing look completely surprised and whiff on receiving a pass?

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08-11-2014, 10:08 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
That's reasonable certainly. He needs guys who are smart enough to know what he might do, and who are ready to get passes that most players can't make. I think everyone has trouble with him at first because he just makes atypical plays pretty often. How often do you see a new wing look completely surprised and whiff on receiving a pass?
I think Kunitz described it best when he said it took him a while to learn that, when you're on the ice with Crosby, you've got to be ready for the puck at any given moment.

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