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Elliotte Friedman: Six Current Players Included in Top 100 Centennial List

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Old
01-13-2017, 03:14 PM
  #526
Section32
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Originally Posted by Seanaconda View Post
His best years where when crosby was injured. And yes he has been top 3 -5 in his position since he has been playing he is second to crosby in ppg
I know that he has stepped it up when Crosby was out.

However, playing with Crosby, when you are arguably amongst the top 100 ever, will certainly help your numbers.

As amazing as he was, don't you think Mario benefitted from playing with Stevens, Coffee, Rechi, Francis, Murphy...oh and Jagr, among others?

My point is that the goalie position is VERY different then forward.

I have a hard enough time including players from different eras...having a cutoff decision between a goalie and a forward is hard for me to take.

With all that said, I have no issue with Malkin being included.

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01-13-2017, 03:29 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by Section32 View Post
I know that he has stepped it up when Crosby was out.

However, playing with Crosby, when you are arguably amongst the top 100 ever, will certainly help your numbers.

As amazing as he was, don't you think Mario benefitted from playing with Stevens, Coffee, Rechi, Francis, Murphy...oh and Jagr, among others?

My point is that the goalie position is VERY different then forward.

I have a hard enough time including players from different eras...having a cutoff decision between a goalie and a forward is hard for me to take.

With all that said, I have no issue with Malkin being included.
I don't think Lundqvist has the hardware tbh. Assuming they are going to include less goalies than forwards and dmen I don't think he makes it

I don't think any current goalies will be on the list yet

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01-13-2017, 05:22 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Alex Jones View Post
He's literally the Osgood of forwards.
He is literally not. Toews has a Conn Smythe and a Selke, and is a staple on Canadian NT. Ozzy has no awards at all (he did come close to winning the Smythe in 09) and was nowhere near Team Canada.

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01-13-2017, 05:25 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
He is literally not. Toews has a Conn Smythe and a Selke, and is a staple on Canadian NT. Ozzy has no awards at all (he did come close to winning the Smythe in 09) and was nowhere near Team Canada.
Yeah, I would say Osgood is probably taking it too far, but going all the way up to Malkin is just as crazy. He is in the middle, a high end player on a very good team that has been very successful and built a good career. But he is not a superstar top-100 player in the game above some of the others mentioned, especially if there are only 6 active guys.

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01-13-2017, 05:26 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by digmor crusher View Post
In absolutely no way should Kane, Toews or Keith be on a top 100 of all time list.
There are legit arguments for Kane and Keith.

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01-13-2017, 05:26 PM
  #531
Trafalgar McLaw
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Jonathan Toews is quickly becoming the most overrated player in NHL history. Even Peter Forsberg has an Art Ross and a couple top 5 point finishes to back up his fanboys' cases. Him getting into a top 100 players list would be a travesty. The dude just does not impact the game as much as the media would make you think, pretty much all defensive metrics tell us he doesn't do as much as Bergeron/Kopitar, and offensively he's never been anything special, managing to average ppg a whopping once in his career and hitting 70 points another whopping once. And it's not like he's the victim of an offensively talented era like many players of the 80s/early 90s. Toews can't even finish top 20 in scoring in a year where Jamie freaking Benn of all people got an Art Ross. Are you freaking kidding me? Unlike some of the other top 100 player candidates currently in the NHL, Toews is not improving his case with his current play. The dude's one of the most overpaid players in the league and objectively isn't very good at hockey anymore. Artem Anisimov of all people has stolen his spot as first line center at just 28 years old.

Jonathan Toews belongs nowhere near a top 100 players of all time list. Heck he doesn't even belong in the Hall of Fame based on his numbers, as even the weak inductions like Federko and Ciccarelli blow him away statistically whether you go by actual production, scoring finishes, adjusted scoring etc, and he's no Bob Gainey defensively. But we all know the hockey media b***r for him will ensure a 1st ballot enshrinement for him.

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01-13-2017, 05:54 PM
  #532
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Originally Posted by Section32 View Post
Maybe...

Has he really been a top 3-5 player at his position for the past 10 years?

His numbers may not have always been there, but please name me the seasons where Lundqvist wasn't near the very top of goalies in the League.

Even with all his hardware, it is difficult for me to see Malkin without Crosby.

Having to play 2nd fiddle to the best player of his generation is immensely helpful.
Well then look no further than 2011-12. His best season in his career and it was without Crosby. Malkin has also undoubtedly been the 2nd best center since he's entered the league and the 3rd best player behind Crosby and arguably the greatest goal scorer ever

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Old
01-13-2017, 07:12 PM
  #533
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Toews shouldn't be on this list unless you're counting rings, but that's due to a lack of longevity, not an indictment of his peak. He's 2 good seasons, 1 good playoffs, or a lot of compilation away.

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01-13-2017, 08:12 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by Regal View Post
If you actually believe that's something to consider on an all time comparison then I'm not the one who's being dishonest here, so yea, I think we're done.
Eras is an actual thing considered. I don't know where you get that it's not but I appreciate the I know you are but what am I type of response. There was more room on the ice and especially there was more room in the net for scoring. That's not really disputable.

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Old
01-13-2017, 08:37 PM
  #535
TakinMaattaOnMyRide
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Locks:
Crosby
Ov
Jagr
Malkin

Others are two of:
Thornton, all time great, 1300 points
Lundqvist, best goalie for a decade
Karlsson has 2 Norris

Should be 7 actually.

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01-13-2017, 08:54 PM
  #536
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Just imagine if Malkin was from Kingston, Ontario.

I can't even consider people leaving him off a list like this but including Toews.

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01-13-2017, 09:00 PM
  #537
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Crosby, Ovie, Malkin, Jagr, and Thornton are 4 sure-fire bets in my opinion. Iginla and Hank definitely deserve heavy consideration.

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01-13-2017, 09:39 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
Eras is an actual thing considered. I don't know where you get that it's not but I appreciate the I know you are but what am I type of response. There was more room on the ice and especially there was more room in the net for scoring. That's not really disputable.
But you keep talking about scoring being easier, but it was easier for all players. I never argued anything about actual production, I argued about placements among peers, who would all the see the same increase or decrease. Era is irrelevant to that.

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Old
01-13-2017, 09:42 PM
  #539
JayKing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakinMaattaOnMyRide View Post
Locks:
Crosby
Ov
Jagr
Malkin

Others are two of:
Thornton, all time great, 1300 points
Lundqvist, best goalie for a decade
Karlsson has 2 Norris

Should be 7 actually.
Jumbo Joe is an absolute lock

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Old
01-13-2017, 10:35 PM
  #540
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Thornton and Iginla should be on the list along with Ovie, Sid and Jagr. The last one is either Lundqvist or Malkin.
Won't be **** if Price makes the list too.
As much as I am a Toews fan, he does not deserve to be on the list ahead of the 7 players I mentioned.

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01-13-2017, 10:44 PM
  #541
Alex Jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trafalgar McLaw View Post
Jonathan Toews is quickly becoming the most overrated player in NHL history. Even Peter Forsberg has an Art Ross and a couple top 5 point finishes to back up his fanboys' cases. Him getting into a top 100 players list would be a travesty. The dude just does not impact the game as much as the media would make you think, pretty much all defensive metrics tell us he doesn't do as much as Bergeron/Kopitar, and offensively he's never been anything special, managing to average ppg a whopping once in his career and hitting 70 points another whopping once. And it's not like he's the victim of an offensively talented era like many players of the 80s/early 90s. Toews can't even finish top 20 in scoring in a year where Jamie freaking Benn of all people got an Art Ross. Are you freaking kidding me? Unlike some of the other top 100 player candidates currently in the NHL, Toews is not improving his case with his current play. The dude's one of the most overpaid players in the league and objectively isn't very good at hockey anymore. Artem Anisimov of all people has stolen his spot as first line center at just 28 years old.

Jonathan Toews belongs nowhere near a top 100 players of all time list. Heck he doesn't even belong in the Hall of Fame based on his numbers, as even the weak inductions like Federko and Ciccarelli blow him away statistically whether you go by actual production, scoring finishes, adjusted scoring etc, and he's no Bob Gainey defensively. But we all know the hockey media b***r for him will ensure a 1st ballot enshrinement for him.
Forsberg was a legit dominant player on the ice. Only problem was that he was never on the ice. Toews is a good NHLer, that simply gets praise because he's on a good team.

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Old
01-14-2017, 01:04 AM
  #542
Pinkfloyd
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Originally Posted by Regal View Post
But you keep talking about scoring being easier, but it was easier for all players. I never argued anything about actual production, I argued about placements among peers, who would all the see the same increase or decrease. Era is irrelevant to that.
This is quite simply not provable.

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Old
01-14-2017, 02:02 AM
  #543
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Malkin with a Hart, a Lindsay , a Calder , a Conn Smythe, 2 Art Ross, 3 first team all-star selections and 2 cups should be an absolute lock for this list.

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Old
01-14-2017, 02:22 AM
  #544
Regal
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This is quite simply not provable.
Lol. So let me get this straight. You want to argue that Thornton would score more relative to his peers in a more open era based on pure conjecture, despite the fact that his size, skating and cycle game are all characteristics that tend to be better suited to a lower scoring, tighter checking environment, and then suggest that the basic compromise of treating all players the same and taking scoring finishes at face value with the assumption that scoring levels would affect everyone equally doesn't work because it can't be proven? And you want to talk about arguing dishonestly? As I said, I think we're done here.

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Old
01-14-2017, 02:29 AM
  #545
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Id give it hossa before toews or kane

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Old
01-15-2017, 11:40 PM
  #546
Pinkfloyd
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Originally Posted by Regal View Post
Lol. So let me get this straight. You want to argue that Thornton would score more relative to his peers in a more open era based on pure conjecture, despite the fact that his size, skating and cycle game are all characteristics that tend to be better suited to a lower scoring, tighter checking environment, and then suggest that the basic compromise of treating all players the same and taking scoring finishes at face value with the assumption that scoring levels would affect everyone equally doesn't work because it can't be proven? And you want to talk about arguing dishonestly? As I said, I think we're done here.
I don't think it's a coincidence that the most open that the game has been since the 80's was the Thornton peak. Let's not pretend like there wasn't guys with size and skill in those times doing work. That is some serious pigeonholing that you're doing here. You literally have no idea who Thornton is if you believe that more time and space doesn't benefit someone with vision and passing ability that is on a generational level. More time and space only helps players like him.

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