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Bozak vs Bonino

View Poll Results: who's better?
Bozak 72 72.00%
Bonino 28 28.00%
Voters: 100. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-13-2014, 04:01 PM
  #26
Sergei Shirokov
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Bonino, give them the same opportunity. (Put Bonino with Kessel & JVR, Bozak in a 2nd/3rd line role with some PP time) and we will see who's better.

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07-13-2014, 04:21 PM
  #27
Wolfgang Krauser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Bonino, give them the same opportunity. (Put Bonino with Kessel & JVR, Bozak in a 2nd/3rd line role with some PP time) and we will see who's better.
Based on what?

This is a hypothetical that you're treating as near fact. Can Bonino even play the tough Bozak type minutes?

Don't get too ahead of yourself.

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Old
07-13-2014, 05:06 PM
  #28
Horvat2Virtanen
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Originally Posted by Wolfgang Krauser View Post
Based on what?

This is a hypothetical that you're treating as near fact. Can Bonino even play the tough Bozak type minutes?

Don't get too ahead of yourself.
The only thing that's stastistically proven is Bozak is a terrible player when not ridding Kessel's cocktails.

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07-13-2014, 05:16 PM
  #29
TieClark
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Originally Posted by Horvat2Virtanen View Post
The only thing that's stastistically proven is Bozak is a terrible player when not ridding Kessel's cocktails.
Proven in what way? Because he didn't produce 3 years ago while playing with Joey Crabb and Matthew Lombardi?

Yeah... proven alright...

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07-13-2014, 06:38 PM
  #30
Horvat2Virtanen
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Proven in what way? Because he didn't produce 3 years ago while playing with Joey Crabb and Matthew Lombardi?

Yeah... proven alright...
He has terrible numbers when not playing with Kessel. Offensively and defensively, terrible.

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07-13-2014, 06:56 PM
  #31
TieClark
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Originally Posted by Horvat2Virtanen View Post
He has terrible numbers when not playing with Kessel. Offensively and defensively, terrible.
And he hasn't not played with Kessel for any kind of significant time since the 2011 season when his linemates were Joey Crabb and Matthew Lombardi when he was 23 years old.

So no... it hasn't been proven he's terrible without Kessel. Is he a 60~ point player without him? Probably not... but he'd be far from terrible and is a legitimate 2C option for any team.

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07-13-2014, 07:07 PM
  #32
Moore Money
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one thing I found interesting and why I decided to make this poll. at the age of 25 they both had similar seasons in terms of production, although Bozak had better line mates (I think)

2011/12 Bozak 47 point in 73 games
2013/14 Bonino 49 points in 77 games

it will be interesting to see if Bonino continues to progress like Bozak has since he will be in a top 6 role with the Canucks.

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07-13-2014, 07:10 PM
  #33
Socratic Method Man
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I don't think either of these guys is much of anything. Prefacing this by admitting I've hardly ever seen him play, Bonino appears to be a very meh player with mediocre talent who put up a bunch of points on a powerplay with Getzlaf and Perry, and did very little at even strength. Bozak also appears to be a very meh player with mediocre talent who plays with one of the best offensive wingers in the game as well as another 1st line winger and is able to get a bunch of points just by virtue of playing with so much talent. But while Kessel puts up 80 points, Bozak puts up 49. While Kessel puts up 37 goals, Bozak puts up 19.

Both these players appear to be very mediocre.

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07-13-2014, 07:14 PM
  #34
Moore Money
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
I don't think either of these guys is much of anything. Prefacing this by admitting I've hardly ever seen him play, Bonino appears to be a very meh player with mediocre talent who put up a bunch of points on a powerplay with Getzlaf and Perry, and did very little at even strength. Bozak also appears to be a very meh player with mediocre talent who plays with one of the best offensive wingers in the game as well as another 1st line winger and is able to get a bunch of points just by virtue of playing with so much talent. But while Kessel puts up 80 points, Bozak puts up 49. While Kessel puts up 37 goals, Bozak puts up 19.

Both these players appear to be very mediocre.
so in other words, it's a good poll. you're welcome.

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07-13-2014, 07:18 PM
  #35
Horvat2Virtanen
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
And he hasn't not played with Kessel for any kind of significant time since the 2011 season when his linemates were Joey Crabb and Matthew Lombardi when he was 23 years old.

So no... it hasn't been proven he's terrible without Kessel. Is he a 60~ point player without him? Probably not... but he'd be far from terrible and is a legitimate 2C option for any team.
Here's a post done by eklunds source, one of the most informative and least biased posters on this forum. I'm here posting sufficent evidence of Bozak being a crap player without Kessel. Now it's your turn to post sufficient evidence of Bozak being a decent NHL player, let alone top 6 centre without Kessel.

Quote:
Bozak has played 674 minutes apart from Kessel over the last 5 years. Just under half of that has been over the past 3 seasons - ie NOT his rookie/sophomore year. In fact, over JUST his last 3 years, he has 4 points in 308 minutes. His production apart from Kessel has actually deteriorated over recent seasons.

13-14: 90mins,
12-13: 60mins
11-12: 158mins
10-11: 271mins
09-10: 95mins

Note: I'm not saying Bozak is worse now than 3-4 years ago - points over a small sample size are a poor measure - but 11+ hours? 11 points? Come on..

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...3&postcount=57

hmm Phil Kessel becomes a better player when not playing with Tyler Bozak..



Quote:
The Leafs are actually a plus-team with Kessel on the ice without Bozak, and they absolutely struggle to both a) score goals and b) prevent goals when Bozak is on the ice without #81
Source http://theleafsnation.com/2013/6/20/...-bozak-edition


Last edited by Horvat2Virtanen: 07-13-2014 at 07:24 PM.
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Old
07-13-2014, 07:20 PM
  #36
Socratic Method Man
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
And he hasn't not played with Kessel for any kind of significant time since the 2011 season when his linemates were Joey Crabb and Matthew Lombardi when he was 23 years old.

So no... it hasn't been proven he's terrible without Kessel. Is he a 60~ point player without him? Probably not... but he'd be far from terrible and is a legitimate 2C option for any team.

It might be disingenuous to call him a "60~ point player", because up to this point, his career high in points is 49. And he is 28 years old at this point.

And as has been mentioned, that 49 points was while playing predominantly with Kessel, who is one of the best offensive players in the game imo.

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Old
07-13-2014, 07:46 PM
  #37
TieClark
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
It might be disingenuous to call him a "60~ point player", because up to this point, his career high in points is 49. And he is 28 years old at this point.

And as has been mentioned, that 49 points was while playing predominantly with Kessel, who is one of the best offensive players in the game imo.
Sure, but those 49 points were in only 58 games. So really I wasn't exaggerating or blowing it out of proportion

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Old
07-14-2014, 01:54 AM
  #38
Wennberg
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One is a borderline 1st line center and the other is a 3rd liner on a playoff team.

Shouldn't be a question.

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Old
07-14-2014, 03:36 AM
  #39
RadaR90
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First poll where Bozak is coming off as quite highly overrated. He plays with two phenomenal wingers who would boost George Parros' numbers to unbelievable proportions. I would never buy what Bozak and the leafs are trying to sell him as a number 1 center. He is a good 3rd liner. That's all. And it sucks that he is being thought of as higher than that because if he was on a team that had depth at center he would actually be a great addition as a third liner. While Bonino is a 2nd/3rd line center who's game can elevate quite a bit more offensively imo. I'd prefer Bonino going forward.

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Old
07-14-2014, 04:43 AM
  #40
Do Make Say Think
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Top 6 centre vs a bottom 6 centre

Tough decision

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07-14-2014, 09:26 AM
  #41
AD1066
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Originally Posted by RadaR90 View Post
First poll where Bozak is coming off as quite highly overrated. He plays with two phenomenal wingers who would boost George Parros' numbers to unbelievable proportions. I would never buy what Bozak and the leafs are trying to sell him as a number 1 center. He is a good 3rd liner. That's all. And it sucks that he is being thought of as higher than that because if he was on a team that had depth at center he would actually be a great addition as a third liner. While Bonino is a 2nd/3rd line center who's game can elevate quite a bit more offensively imo. I'd prefer Bonino going forward.
Yep. He's incapable of generating any sort of offense on his own. I remember someone posting his Corsi% without Kessel this year -- it's 27%.

He racks up a decent amount of points by deferring to Kessel and JVR, who will produce regardless of who you put between them. And despite his apparent "chemistry" with those two, they've actually had better production without him. Yet he'll retain complete immunity from any sort of competition for the role because he's good friends with Kessel.

I'm surprised more Leafs fans aren't bothered by him. A 28 year old who has never cracked 50 points despite playing with one of the best wingers in the game has been continually gifted the center position on a line that let in more goals against than any other during the past season, on a team that's missed the playoffs 7 out of the last 8 years.

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