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Sir Sheamus Weber (Man Mountain PhD edition)

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Old
04-23-2017, 09:50 AM
  #1026
Frank Drebin
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
One of the biggest issues of the Montreal Canadiens organization after the Pollock era has been that the "image" of the organization trumps skill & ability on the ice.

It's the reason why flashy guys with perceived attitude issues get shipped out as fast they are brought in. We've given up on superstars in favour of incompetent coachs, and we've traded core members of hockey clubs because they "clash" with the other side of the room, which generally speaking is always the unskilled "hardworking" side.
I'm a hardworking unskilled guy myself, so admittedly I relate.

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04-23-2017, 09:52 AM
  #1027
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
I'm a hardworking unskilled guy myself, so admittedly I relate.
You need those players to win too, the problem is they are being over valued over key pieces that can take over hockey games.

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04-23-2017, 09:52 AM
  #1028
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
Every single NHL team would take Weber on their team.

In an instant.

No debate here.
Every single team would take Price or Lehkonen or Gallagher as well, what does that prove?

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04-23-2017, 09:56 AM
  #1029
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
As I said above I agree 100% he failed to execute the vision, whatever his vision may be.

What I disagree with on your post is the assumption that one player makes a team. In reality a team when well constructed is greater than the sum of all its parts. MB failed to finish the vision in time for us to see it. So yeah, more of the same if you want but as a GM who is building something he has to look at final blueprint. What will work when all is said and done.

Unfortunately, if he doesn't work fast enough that window will vanish. It's fading quick.
I never assumed this is about one player, I think you know me well enough as a poster not to believe such a silly thing.
It's a team game, you never win or lose because of one player.

At the trade deadline, didn't Bergevin say there wasn't any window?
We know what his vision is, he wants to build a dynasty here through drafting and development. He believes he needs a mix of everything to win, size, strength, speed, skills, etc...
You give Bergevin way too much credit buddy, he's not this in depth savvy GM with a structured mind, he's the clown who hides behind a plant.

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Old
04-23-2017, 09:59 AM
  #1030
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I never assumed this is about one player, I think you know me well enough as a poster not to believe such a silly thing.
It's a team game, you never win or lose because of one player.

At the trade deadline, didn't Bergevin say there wasn't any window?
We know what his vision is, he wants to build a dynasty here through drafting and development. He believes he needs a mix of everything to win, size, strength, speed, skills, etc...
You give Bergevin way too much credit buddy, he's not this in depth savvy GM with a structured mind, he's the clown who hides behind a plant.
A great GM has his team consistently competing. NJD of old and Detroit of recent times are the benchmark is success. Cup wins, finals, consistent playoff berths. I too want that, any GM would.

We have to be realistic however and that's why I'm unsure why your second part comes into play. I literally just agreed he failed as a GM but I give him too much credit?

Didn't you just make a post saying people don't follow the discussion in this very thread then pull a similar stunt?

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04-23-2017, 10:03 AM
  #1031
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
The trade was always about moving PK out rather than acquiring Weber.
Yup. They mentioned this on 690 at some point this season, but if true, MB wanted Josi and Nashville rightfully said no. Weber was offered next and MB settled on that.

Anyhow, it wasn't like MB saw Weber was available and wanted him. MB (and MT) wanted PK out and took Weber.

End of the day, trade worked out for both teams. Weber was the type of defenceman we needed, but so was PK. Weber was never going to rush the puck end to end, or run and quarterback the PP, but the issue was he was saddled with a defensively suspect defensive defenseman through half the season and eventually paired with a 38-year old who I think just ran out of gas in the playoffs.

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04-23-2017, 10:07 AM
  #1032
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
A great GM has his team consistently competing. NJD of old and Detroit of recent times are the benchmark is success. Cup wins, finals, consistent playoff berths. I too want that, any GM would.

We have to be realistic however and that's why I'm unsure why your second part comes into play. I literally just agreed he failed as a GM but I give him too much credit?

Didn't you just make a post saying people don't follow the discussion in this very thread then pull a similar stunt?
Yes, because you assume he actually has a clear vision and simply hasn't executed it.
I don't think he has a vision.

I'm very realistic. I don't want to have a team that's going to be great and competitive for years. I'll take just one measily year. Can I get a team that will be a contender for just one year?? How about we do that before talking about building a dynasty.

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04-23-2017, 10:17 AM
  #1033
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Weber was Weber
Steady play no surprise

Would have liked a Game changer in is place ,,,,,,

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04-23-2017, 10:18 AM
  #1034
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What Bergevin needs to do now is add to Weber. He said in an interview with Chris Nilan before the deadline that his ideal acquisition was a young puck moving defenseman. If I'm Bergevin, I'm taking a run at 4 guys:

- Hampus Lindholm from Anaheim
- Cam Fowler from Anaheim
- Oliver Ekman-Larsson from Arizona
- Shayne Gostisbehere from Philadelphia

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04-23-2017, 10:20 AM
  #1035
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Powerplay

The one thing that frustrated me most was seeing whoever runs the pp's insistence on putting Weber on the right side every time. You have the guy with the best shot in the league. He should always be in position to be able to drop bombs on the opposition

Instead he was stuck on the right where he is close to useless since you mostly negate his best asset.

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04-23-2017, 10:20 AM
  #1036
Frank Drebin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Michaels View Post
What Bergevin needs to do now is add to Weber. He said in an interview with Chris Nilan before the deadline that his ideal acquisition was a young puck moving defenseman. If I'm Bergevin, I'm taking a run at 4 guys:

- Hampus Lindholm from Anaheim
- Cam Fowler from Anaheim
- Oliver Ekman-Larsson from Arizona
- Shayne Gostisbehere from Philadelphia
Not that we don't need guys like that, but we need 2 top 6 centermen before that.

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Old
04-23-2017, 10:21 AM
  #1037
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Not that we don't need guys like that, but we need 2 top 6 centermen before that.
Agreed.

Shipachev might be a FA option, which would be great cause it's a free asset.

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04-23-2017, 10:22 AM
  #1038
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, because you assume he actually has a clear vision and simply hasn't executed it.
I don't think he has a vision.

I'm very realistic. I don't want to have a team that's going to be great and competitive for years. I'll take just one measily year. Can I get a team that will be a contender for just one year?? How about we do that before talking about building a dynasty.
A guy who was a NHL player, coach, scout, director of player development and assistant GM of a cup winning franchise gets interviewed for the most prestigious NHL GM job available and...he has zero vision. You sure you're realistic?

You used to word dynasty, not me. I explicitly said window is fading.

Seems like you're the one who can't follow a discussion.

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Old
04-23-2017, 10:25 AM
  #1039
Adam Michaels
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
Not that we don't need guys like that, but we need 2 top 6 centermen before that.
I agree. Habs do have other more pressing concerns. But because it's the Weber thread, I focused my post mainly on the left defence, particularly next to Weber.

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04-23-2017, 10:26 AM
  #1040
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Michaels View Post
What Bergevin needs to do now is add to Weber. He said in an interview with Chris Nilan before the deadline that his ideal acquisition was a young puck moving defenseman. If I'm Bergevin, I'm taking a run at 4 guys:

- Hampus Lindholm from Anaheim
- Cam Fowler from Anaheim
- Oliver Ekman-Larsson from Arizona
- Shayne Gostisbehere from Philadelphia
Sami Vatanen? Anaheim will probably keep Fowler and Lindholm, while they risk losing Vatanen to the expansion draft so they might trade him.

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Old
04-23-2017, 10:26 AM
  #1041
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Originally Posted by MontrealPredators View Post
Sami Vatanen? Anaheim will probably keep Fowler and Lindholm, while they risk losing Vatanen to the expansion draft so they might trade him.
Plays right side though...

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Old
04-23-2017, 10:27 AM
  #1042
Frank Drebin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Michaels View Post
I agree. Habs do have other more pressing concerns. But because it's the Weber thread, I focused my post mainly on the left defence, particularly next to Weber.
We're so ****ed lol

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Old
04-23-2017, 10:30 AM
  #1043
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Habs havent had a Stanley cup contender for years. At no time has the
existing team been a contender. This years version is no closer than last years version. The teams best centre is an aging vet who would at best be a 3rd line centre on a cup contender. Meaning of course that the Habs greatest need is at least 1 legitimate top line centre and a another top 6 centre.
Julien for years had legitimate top 6 centres , both who could win faceoffs, play pp, pk, and score points and he must have puked at the late season effort of those he tried at centre after coming to the Habs.
Least of Juliens worries are the defense,although i think he made a statement by sitting Beaulieu and I imagine he sees images of Markov in a rocking chair.

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Old
04-23-2017, 12:20 PM
  #1044
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Originally Posted by badi View Post
Weber was Weber
Steady play no surprise

Would have liked a Game changer in is place ,,,,,,
See, he DID change the game. Not a single Ranger sent their linemate into the corner against him, and even guys like Kreider tried to take the long way around him whenever possible. They constantly/consistently threw it around into Markov's corner and made us figure it out from there (winning goal of game 5, for example). It's no coincidence that 4 of NYR's top goal scorers were RWers (i.e. matched up against our LD) with the way that Beaulieu and Benn booted the puck around on a nightly basis. And Emelin, goal scored aside, was as guilty as the rest of the LD when he finally got back in (weak dump back into traffic along the boards leading to the killing goal in game 6).

Only thing that disappointed me about Weber was the reluctance to let the bomb go. True, he bruised some crossbars/posts with some good ones (almost tied game 5 with a doozy). But he also gave up many chances to slap it in order to make an extra move and send in wristers instead. More Rangers should have been skating around on tender ankles (like Glass finally was in game 6) by the time the series was on the line. 11 shots after 6 games is NOT game planning around one of your biggest assets properly, and none of the Habs forwards exploited the acres of free space between the net and the point when NYR's forwards cheated to cover him closely.

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Old
04-23-2017, 12:27 PM
  #1045
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Weber wasnt good enough to make THAT difference he was supposed to make. He slowed down as the series went along.

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