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I haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if the following idea has even been considered:
If Jack Johnson is a black-hole defensively, rather than thinking about trading him, why not convert him into a winger? He probably wouldn't be as much of a defensive liability as a winger and, as a winger, he could be an offensive threat.
Make him a winger, and if that doesn't improve his game in any way, then trade him. Either that, or get someone who can teach him how to be a defensively responsible defenceman.
Since it currently looks highly likely that Columbus will end up in the bottom 5 this season, why not try this experiment? There's really nothing for Columbus to lose at this point; if it diesn't work out, then JJ can get traded in theh summer.
NO offense - but you need 6 d-men. Add in - in the VAST majority of cases, d-men aren't ready to carry the load as teenagers. It's REALLY rare for d-men to be able to anchor a blueline until at LEAST 22+, which means that Murray and Seth Jones (potentially) MIGHT be ready in 2016-2017. Add in, it's REALLY helpful to have a vet who can help ease them into that role. From everything I've heard, Johnson is a very good teammate who has REALLY embraced his role on a rebuilding team.
Also, he's locked up to a great contract for a LONG time. Given that CLM is unlikely to be able to attract the upper tier UFA's, that's a HUGE benefit.
Just from my perspective, JJ catches a lot of grief for having a reputation as being bad defensively. I haven't seen that since he's come to CLM, and I think he'd have very strong value if it came to a trade. He's obviously not a "perfect" d-man, but given the fact that he's logging a TON of minutes on the worst team in the league, there are going to be pretty rough stats.
I think that the thread title is terrible. Obviously, Jarmo "might" trade anyone on the Jackets roster. I don't see how JJ is any more likely to be dealt than anyone else. The thought that the Jackets should trade everyone that has value is ludicrious. All that guarantees is that they get brutalized for an extended period of time and they don't have framework to add their talented prospects too. You get an Islanders type situation where the young guys are just thrown to the wolves. That's not good for development IMO.
Great post, but I've bolded the part most integral to the discussion. I guess this thread has given us a good time reading posts by people who don't watch him play, though, so good on the OP I guess.
I await the next great (fill in blanks) "someone" "might do" "something" thread. It's like Mad Libs!
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"Every game, every point is a necessity." -- Ty Conklin, January 2007
"I'll have a chance to compete for the post of first issue. This is the most important thing." -- Sergei Bobrovsky, June 2012
I sure hope Jarmo doesn't put much stock into advanced stats. I know he has said he does which greatly worries me.
Advanced stats are like the horoscopes of sports.
lol i agree completely, thay can help to get a good idea of a player compared to peers but until these stats take into account compete levels and heart they can cram their stats.
Great post, but I've bolded the part most integral to the discussion. I guess this thread has given us a good time reading posts by people who don't watch him play, though, so good on the OP I guess.
I await the next great (fill in blanks) "someone" "might do" "something" thread. It's like Mad Libs!
Watched JJ pretty much every game with the Kings. I like many, really like Jack the guy, team USA etc, unfortunately it blinded us to Jack the player.
The guy had a tendency to just make bad mistakes at the worst possible time.
There were streaks, where you would say there is JMFJ, there is a top line defensmen, but they did not last long. The longer streaks were the Kings fishing the puck out of the net, and crowd yelling c'mon Jack.
Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.
Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.
The fact of the matter is the guy contributes more to losses than to win's on a night in night out basis. It would not surprise me if Columbus looked to move him
Watched JJ pretty much every game with the Kings. I like many, really like Jack the guy, team USA etc, unfortunately it blinded us to Jack the player.
The guy had a tendency to just make bad mistakes at the worst possible time.
There were streaks, where you would say there is JMFJ, there is a top line defensmen, but they did not last long. The longer streaks were the Kings fishing the puck out of the net, and crowd yelling c'mon Jack.
Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.
Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.
The fact of the matter is the guy contributes more to losses than to win's on a night in night out basis. It would not surprise me if Columbus looked to move him
you have a point...and time will tell...but on a team lacking top end scoring threats, its hard to be a plus...
Watched JJ pretty much every game with the Kings. I like many, really like Jack the guy, team USA etc, unfortunately it blinded us to Jack the player.
The guy had a tendency to just make bad mistakes at the worst possible time.
There were streaks, where you would say there is JMFJ, there is a top line defensmen, but they did not last long. The longer streaks were the Kings fishing the puck out of the net, and crowd yelling c'mon Jack.
Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.
Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.
The fact of the matter is the guy contributes more to losses than to win's on a night in night out basis. It would not surprise me if Columbus looked to move him
But LA and CBJ are two totally different teams. One was pretty successful and the other, not so much. As much as Jack plays and as much as the Jackets lose, it's not surprising he's a minus. Jack is by far our best all around dman. If you still care to hold your opinion of Jack when he was in LA and not bother to make up another one, you fit in with 90% of the posters in this thread. Jack has been our best defensive defender as well. Watch one game, you'll change your mind.
It isn't just Derek Zona on Copper n' Blue who is not a fan. I read several advanced stats bloggers and they all agree about Jack Johnson, which makes me think that Jarmo would agree as well.
I think Jarmo will try to trade JJ to a GM who buys into Johnson's reputation and don't look at the underlaying stats. An incompetent GM in other words.
The reason this might not happen is that JJ is the biggest name on a very depleted team and that he was the return on a big trade. It wouldn't be a popular trade, but Jarmo ought to do it for the best of the team.
I have never liked JJ. Personally i get squeemish every time he is available because i have this idea that once Tambo learns how to contact other GMs-and that he has that freedom- that he will ruin our team
Its sad when have so little faith in a GM that i prefer he leave the team with holes and just continues the suck train rather than seeing what he does in making big aquisitions to fill those holes.
Great post, but I've bolded the part most integral to the discussion. I guess this thread has given us a good time reading posts by people who don't watch him play, though, so good on the OP I guess.
I await the next great (fill in blanks) "someone" "might do" "something" thread. It's like Mad Libs!
I can guarantee you that, if Johnson were moved, we'd see the same thing with him as with Kovalchuk. And that is the whole idea of "changing his game" and "playing completely differently than he did".
No one paid enough attention to Atlanta to notice how Kovalchuk played, then acted shocked when he actually turned out to be pretty good in all zones. And no one (outside of us) pays enough attention to Columbus to see that he looks completely different than he did with the Kings.
But LA and CBJ are two totally different teams. One was pretty successful and the other, not so much. As much as Jack plays and as much as the Jackets lose, it's not surprising he's a minus. Jack is by far our best all around dman. If you still care to hold your opinion of Jack when he was in LA and not bother to make up another one, you fit in with 90% of the posters in this thread. Jack has been our best defensive defender as well. Watch one game, you'll change your mind.
Seen him play a couple of times when he played the Kings. He showed that flash of what he can do last game against the Kings, rushing it up the ice late in the 3rd period nice pass. But also watched him cough it up , and just make that bad play that would cause us to groan. Granted its only a 2 game sample so cannot say that is what happens across most games.
I would not say I am like 90% of the fans given I have seen him play a lot more than most the posters in this thread and most Columbus fans. Most posters just feed off of what they hear, some of us have watched a player for a large number of games.
At the end of the day Johnson was part of a very good defensive team in Los Angeles and he was considered by most to be the poorest of the best.
In Columbus not sure how you would rate the defensemen over all, I would speculate he is the best of an average bunch based on Columbus fans pointing out the challenges their team has.
Maybe its all how you look at it.
And at the end of the day Columbus fans are happy with his level of play, that is all that matters.
Seen him play a couple of times when he played the Kings. He showed that flash of what he can do last game against the Kings, rushing it up the ice late in the 3rd period nice pass. But also watched him cough it up , and just make that bad play that would cause us to groan. Granted its only a 2 game sample so cannot say that is what happens across most games.
I would not say I am like 90% of the fans given I have seen him play a lot more than most the posters in this thread and most Columbus fans. Most posters just feed off of what they hear, some of us have watched a player for a large number of games.
At the end of the day Johnson was part of a very good defensive team in Los Angeles and he was considered by most to be the poorest of the best.
In Columbus not sure how you would rate the defensemen over all, I would speculate he is the best of an average bunch based on Columbus fans pointing out the challenges their team has.
Maybe its all how you look at it.. And at the end of the day Columbus fans are happy with his level of play, that is all that matters.
personally, even before the 1st round pick is used, i consider it a win/win
Watched JJ pretty much every game with the Kings. I like many, really like Jack the guy, team USA etc, unfortunately it blinded us to Jack the player.
The guy had a tendency to just make bad mistakes at the worst possible time.
There were streaks, where you would say there is JMFJ, there is a top line defensmen, but they did not last long. The longer streaks were the Kings fishing the puck out of the net, and crowd yelling c'mon Jack.
Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.
Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.
The fact of the matter is the guy contributes more to losses than to win's on a night in night out basis. It would not surprise me if Columbus looked to move him
While I agree with you that JJ made poor decisions in LA - I haven't seen that as much in CLM. Making ANY evaluation of his current play based on +/- is absolutely ludicrous considering he's playing 28 minutes/game on the worst team in the league.
Have you watched ANY of JJ's games in CLM? It seems like there are a bunch of people who are absolutely ripping on JJ, and I get the impression that they're basing their opinion on JJ from 2-3 years ago in LA.
Why from 2/3 years ago ? He was still here one year ago..
Actually I would take that opinion more seriously than 37 games with Colombus despite the fact he's playing on a different team. I still think he makes too many turnovers for a #1 defenseman, but his positioning is his main problem. When somebody scores, JJ is always in the neighbourhood on the wrong side of the puck. Awful.
Personally I've always said he's a very good 2nd pairing defenseman and decent on the PP. Its more than logical that he's a minus on such a bad team so I wouldnt put too much stock into that, but its ironical though.
Columbus is still in a honeymoon period with this guy, let them be married a couple of years and see what they will say then.
OK but according to this thread, he's getting traded... maybe. So there won't be any "couple of years married."
Quote:
Checking this years stats, Jack sits at a -8 through what 15 games.. Now Columbus fan will say "but he does so much more." Its not unlike King fans trying to defend him. Its more about reputation than ability.
This is exactly what I'm talking about, except I mean it in the exact opposite way you do. People bashing his play are basing it on what they saw before he came to CBJ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3
but his positioning is his main problem. When somebody scores, JJ is always in the neighbourhood on the wrong side of the puck.
I have seen this as well. It's very different, though, from what is being said by some folks in this thread. Frustrating, but you take the bad with the good - or in this case, better.
Quote:
Personally I've always said he's a very good 2nd pairing defenseman and decent on the PP.
Yes I'd prefer this too. CBJ doesn't really have a better option at the moment.
JJ is playing better. He's stronger in his own end but not outstanding. We'll take it. He is a young blueliner who can play in all situations who is on a friendly contract. Moving him creates an unnecessary hole on the CBJ blueline which could ultimately be filled from within but it's way too soon to suggest that time is now.
I haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if the following idea has even been considered:
If Jack Johnson is a black-hole defensively, rather than thinking about trading him, why not convert him into a winger? He probably wouldn't be as much of a defensive liability as a winger and, as a winger, he could be an offensive threat.
Make him a winger, and if that doesn't improve his game in any way, then trade him. Either that, or get someone who can teach him how to be a defensively responsible defenceman.
Since it currently looks highly likely that Columbus will end up in the bottom 5 this season, why not try this experiment? There's really nothing for Columbus to lose at this point; if it diesn't work out, then JJ can get traded in theh summer.
I was saying this for a few years before he got traded...
