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Ray Bourque-Best D ever

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Old
04-22-2017, 05:42 AM
  #26
Moose Head
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Originally Posted by GMR View Post
Better than Lemieux's 199 point season?
IMO, Yes.

As an aside, Lemieux's best hockey was in the 91 and 92 playoffs and 93 regular season imo, not the 199 season

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04-22-2017, 11:07 AM
  #27
Admiral Awesome
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Originally Posted by Moose Head View Post
Better perhaps, but not 'much' better. It's arguable.
For me, it's the fact that there was no learning curve with Bourque; he basically hit the ground running and his play stayed at an elite level for his entire 22 year career, whereas Lidstrom needed some time to really round into form. Plus Bourque's peak was much higher than Lidstrom's.

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04-22-2017, 11:19 AM
  #28
Nino33
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For me Bourque wouldn't even be in consideration for best D ever.....what I recall from watching him was he did nothing whenever Boston was in a Final, and on the great Canada Cup teams of the 1980s he was nothing special, and he went to Colorado just to win a Cup (I don't think they needed Bourque to win at all)

For me Bourque was a good to very good offensive minded D, in particular when playing average/weaker teams...the higher the competition level, the less Bourque shone IMO


Given the praise I see him given in this thread, it seems unlikely many agree with me, but that's OK (what I recall/my opinion is based on my views and not based on the views of others)

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Old
04-22-2017, 11:30 AM
  #29
Sentinel
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Must. Stop. Myself. From. Engaging. Into. Another. "L vs. B". Debate... Ah, whoamIkidding!! Lidstrom had a much better overall career than Raymond Bourque in both individual and team awards. Whether or not he was a better PLAYER (and I maintain that he was) is debatable, but not his career. Advance stats mean jack.

"Building a team" is about winning Cups. Orr brought his team at least two Cups. Bourque underperformed in playoffs. Seven years with Orr and two Cups beats twenty years with Bourque and no Cups.

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04-22-2017, 11:44 AM
  #30
Eisen
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Originally Posted by Gee Wally View Post
I watched every game of both their careers.

Orr was better. Orr was the best D man ever. At least from what Ive seen in over 50 years.

Classiness? That doesn't enter the picture.

Orr was screwed by Eagleson - look it up. Sinden was too stubborn to circumvent the agent too.

Bourque? he went to arbitration with the Bruins. So not all wine and roses there either.
That is some serious commitment.

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04-22-2017, 12:56 PM
  #31
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Is he even top ten defensively?

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04-22-2017, 01:02 PM
  #32
CokenoPepsi
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Class? Bourque?

The man literally has a DUI.. he is kind of a POS.

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04-22-2017, 01:46 PM
  #33
puckpilot
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Originally Posted by Plural View Post
Was Orr not classy?
One of the classiest ever.

Here's a story I heard about him that illustrates what type of person he is. I'm a little fuzzy on the details, so bear with me. One time he was attending the funeral, post playing career. He's waiting in a long long line up to pay his respects. We're talking about hours long.

Someone from the family of the person who passed away notices Bobby in the line up and goes up to him and tells him he can just go in. Bobby, bad knees and all, refuses and stays in line. There was a cool quote to go along with this but my memory fails me. Basically it was about him not being any more special than everyone else who showed up.

if that doesn't ooze classy, I don't know what does.

As of for the question, who was the better D? To me, it's Orr, hands down. I don't want to dismiss longevity, because it does play a factor. But Orr was just too good and was IMHO around long enough to put up an impressive resume that erases any doubt about his ability to maintain that level of play if you factor out the injuries.

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Yesterday, 03:24 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Admiral Awesome View Post
For me, it's the fact that there was no learning curve with Bourque; he basically hit the ground running and his play stayed at an elite level for his entire 22 year career, whereas Lidstrom needed some time to really round into form. Plus Bourque's peak was much higher than Lidstrom's.
And in what way was his peak much higher? Cant see it tbh.

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Old
Yesterday, 07:18 AM
  #35
Dennis Bonvie
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Originally Posted by puckpilot View Post
One of the classiest ever.

Here's a story I heard about him that illustrates what type of person he is. I'm a little fuzzy on the details, so bear with me. One time he was attending the funeral, post playing career. He's waiting in a long long line up to pay his respects. We're talking about hours long.

Someone from the family of the person who passed away notices Bobby in the line up and goes up to him and tells him he can just go in. Bobby, bad knees and all, refuses and stays in line. There was a cool quote to go along with this but my memory fails me. Basically it was about him not being any more special than everyone else who showed up.

if that doesn't ooze classy, I don't know what does.

As of for the question, who was the better D? To me, it's Orr, hands down. I don't want to dismiss longevity, because it does play a factor. But Orr was just too good and was IMHO around long enough to put up an impressive resume that erases any doubt about his ability to maintain that level of play if you factor out the injuries.
"Orr has been known to be fiercely loyal to former Bruin personnel and teammates. When Derek Sanderson had alcohol and prescription drug-abuse problems and wound up penniless, Orr spent his own money to ensure that Sanderson successfully completed rehab. Decades later, Orr and Sanderson went into business together managing finances for hockey players. Orr also helped out Bruins trainer John (Frosty) Forristall, his roommate during his first years with the Bruins, who had just been fired from the Tampa Bay Lightning for alcoholism in 1994. Forristall's drinking put him on bad terms with his brother John, so he returned to Boston jobless and soon afterwards was diagnosed with brain cancer. Orr took Forristall into his home for a year until he died at the age of 51. Orr was a pallbearer at his funeral.
Orr is also well known for his charitable works, although he kept mention of them out of the press. Former Eagle-Tribune writer Russ Conway noted of one occasion when Orr and Conway visited Boston Children's Hospital, with a box of programs, pennants, pucks, pictures and Boston memorabilia: "We went from room to room, Orr popping in, unannounced to visit the kids. Some couldn't believe their eyes; sick as they were, they laughed in astonishment and delight. Bobby Orr! He talked and joked with every one of them, asking names, rubbing heads, giving everybody a little present from the box, leaving a stick, autographing everything in sight." Orr made Conway promise to not print a word in the newspaper. Orr was involved in numerous charity fund raisers. In 1980, Orr was awarded the Multiple Sclerosis Silver Hope Chest Award by the Multiple Sclerosis Society for his "numerous and unselfish contributions to society"."

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Old
Yesterday, 07:47 AM
  #36
steve141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YippieKaey View Post
Coupling that with Bourques notoriously easy contract negotations and general classiness.
I'm not going to touch the debate about who's better, but I'm intrigued by this quote. In what way was Bourque notorious for easy contract negotiations?

I know for example that Lidstrom would often agree to the general outline of his contract with Ken Holland over a fire-side chat, before agent Don Meehan and Holland had the final negotiation. For his last couple of contracts he negotiated directly with Holland, without using an agent at all.

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Yesterday, 11:39 AM
  #37
YippieKaey
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Originally Posted by steve141 View Post
In what way was Bourque notorious for easy contract negotiations
http://thehockeywriters.com/flashbac...y-ray-bourque/

Just from news articles and such. Don't really have the energy to find them so above is just a secondary source, but they're probably online.

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Old
Yesterday, 11:44 AM
  #38
MXD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve141 View Post
I'm not going to touch the debate about who's better, but I'm intrigued by this quote. In what way was Bourque notorious for easy contract negotiations?

I know for example that Lidstrom would often agree to the general outline of his contract with Ken Holland over a fire-side chat, before agent Don Meehan and Holland had the final negotiation. For his last couple of contracts he negotiated directly with Holland, without using an agent at all.
Comparing a player dealing with Ken Holland on a club owned by Mike Illitch with a player dealing with Harry Sinden on a club owned by Jeremy Jacobs is, litterally, comparing apples and oranges.

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Yesterday, 03:20 PM
  #39
Ohashi_Jouzu
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As a Habs fan I hated Ray Bourque, but I'd take him over Lidstrom. Would still rather have 8-10 years of someone far better than BOTH than 20 years of either... i.e. Orr.

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