Trade Rumors and Free Agent TalkTrade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.
Personally I think Columbus will decide Cory Schneider has more value to the development of the BJ than what an early draft pick will have later down the road and so they will trade the second overall pick to the Canucks. Columbus will have lost the lottery for the first overall pick and either the Oilers, the Canadians or the Islanders will be picking Nail Yakupov.
With their past experience with Russian players, the Canucks will not consider drafting Grigorenko. Instead Gillis will offer to trade the 2nd overall pick for the 4th or 5th overall pick (plus) at which position the Canucks would consider drafting one of Ryan Murray, Filip Foresberg, Griffin Reinhart or Matt Dumba, but before picking any draftable player, Gillis would first offer the 2nd overall pick for the 24th overall pick plus a player or players to be named later.
Personally I think Columbus will decide Cory Schneider has more value to the development of the BJ than what an early draft pick will have later down the road and so they will trade the second overall pick to the Canucks. Columbus will have lost the lottery for the first overall pick and either the Oilers, the Canadians or the Islanders will be picking Nail Yakupov.
With their past experience with Russian players, the Canucks will not consider drafting Grigorenko. Instead Gillis will offer to trade the 2nd overall pick for the 4th or 5th overall pick (plus) at which position the Canucks would consider drafting one of Ryan Murray, Filip Foresberg, Griffin Reinhart or Matt Dumba, but before picking any draftable player, Gillis would first offer the 2nd overall pick for the 24th overall pick plus a player or players to be named later.
No, no they won't. There are plenty of stop gap goalies available. They can draft a goalie later in the draft. There are enough stop gap goalies available. It is very rare that a goalie is a teams franchise player. Do you really think Schnieder is better then Price? Price still didn't help the Habs make the playoffs. Schnieder is an UFA after next season. He could be traded to them then only sign a 1 year deal and walk.
Last edited by HooliganX2: 04-05-2012 at 12:40 AM.
No one has said that outright but you should be able to figure to figure this out yourself....everybody keels calling Schneider an unproven backup, yet somehow they act like Yakupov is already a proven star.
If the Nucks had waited until the summer to deal Hodgson, I could easily see a deal built around Schneider + Hodgson for Yakupov. If anything Columbus might even add (take on Ballard? Give back another decent player?). As it is though, as good as Schneider is, I can't see Columbus dealing the 1st overall pick for a goalie who hasn't proven himself in a starting role, and I don't see what Vancouver would add to even up the deal (they're not gonna deal any of Edler/Hamhuis/Bieksa, or obviously any of Sedin/Sedin/Kesler, and what else would they have that Columbus would REALLY want?).
Their GM is on life support he has to do something to save his job. Canucks can't afford Nash's cap hit as we'd have Schendier, Edler and Burrows who will all need new contracts and we won't lose them for Nash.
If Howson gets a good return for Nash and Yakupov starts to pan out, he will keep his job. He isn't in as deep of a whole as everyone thinks. They won't fire him unless he completely drops the ball, but he has improved the team since the beginning of the year. The Carter trade wasn't bad value, it didn't work out. Just out of curiosity, what has Howson done that has really ruined the team? They have a respectable prospect pool and if they had a consistent goalie they will be a decent team.
No one has said that outright but you should be able to figure to figure this out yourself....everybody keels calling Schneider an unproven backup, yet somehow they act like Yakupov is already a proven star.
Look at the past 10 #1 picks - it is more likely that Yakupov is the next Stamkos, Tavares, Kane or Ovi than Schneider is the next Broduer, Lundquist or Roy. The risk is far outweighed by the potential reward, especially for a team like CBJ.
No quite the contrary. Moving quickly in a market of deficiency affords the individual the advantage of paying a potentially lower price, getting the asset that is desired and most of all, mobility to utilize said asset sooner.
You know what they say? Time is money. A great asset 1 year sooner is better than the same great asset 1 year later.
Sure, buying your condo before the building goes up will net you a sweet deal, the builder is trading risk of carrying cost for the locked-in profit, albeit smaller profit. If this were a year or two ago, sure a team might be wise to pony up what would at that time be market, or slightly above market for an goaltender that has never carried a full load. But that isn't what the majority of Nucks posters are claiming value is right now for Schneider. The market is at its peak, and they are looking to sell at highest possible value. Try selling your house for what you think it is worth, even if all the experts are telling you how awesome it is. There is no incentive for a bidding war, especially if, by the time the Jackets are ready to make a legit Cup run, Schneider is pushing 30. Also not helping the Nucks trade value is the play of guys like Mike Smith, Josh Harding and Brian Elliot. Those guys were grabbed for a song last offseason, which may have GMs thinking they can moneyball their way into a solid, if not slightly above average starter.
Besides, there is nothing stopping the teams from putting on a full-court press with offer sheets while the getting is good - they potentially get him for free (or at least only multiple millions of $$ a year, as opposed to real assets).
No, no they won't. There are plenty of stop gap goalies available. They can draft a goalie later in the draft. There are enough stop gap goalies available. It is very rare that a goalie is a teams franchise player. Do you really think Schnieder is better then Price? Price still didn't help the Habs make the playoffs. Schnieder is only signed an UFA after next season. He could be traded to them then only sign a 1 year deal and walk.
Yes you are right. Very few goalies turn into a team's franchise player, but when they do that team is likely to be a contending team much longer than teams who's franchise player is a foreward or defenseman.
Is a franchise level goalie going to guarantee that team will make the playoffs? No, goalies seldom score goals. Any goalies role is to prevent goals and keep you in the game. A franchise goalie is expected to keep you in games (steal) which the team has no right to still be in that game. Luongo is a franchise level goalie. So is Price. So is Broduer. So are a few other number one goalies. Cory Schneider is not yet a franchise level goalie or a top ten goalie, but he has stolen multiple games for the Canucks over the last two years and shows the best potential of all the younger goalies to be a franchise level goalie. He is showing that at a minimum he will be a solid number one goalie. Personally I think Cory and Quick will both become better goalies than Price or Luongo, but not yet.
Are there lots of stop gap goalies? Not a lot, but enough. Unfortunatly they tend to only excite the fans early, but seldom deliver anything more than mediocracy over a season thus leaving the fans to disapointment and anger towards their team and management at this time of the season. Over the years the Canucks and the Leafs are good examples of failing to build a strong cup contender by using stopgap goalies. Pretty sad when a team's biggest goal is trying to be good enough just to make the first round of the playoffs. It is much easier to build a strong team from the goal out then the reverse.
The Blue Jackets are in a very bad position now. They have been in the building mode for much too long. Their fans want a winner now, not a team which is continuing a rebuilding plan through the draft. If the BJ draft an 18 year old goalie, even if he turns out to be gold, he will not be ready for even NHL backup duty for a minimum of 5 to 7 years. Long before that the BJ's GM will be out of a job. Add to that, drafting an 18 year old goalie is the riskiest draft pick possible. Very, very few pan out even as a backup yet goal is the most important position in the game.
What makes Schneider's and a couple of others value so high is that they have already proven they are some of the few that look like their pick was a success. What makes Schneider's value even higher is that compared to some established number one goalies who have already reached their prime years, Schneider, along with goalies like Quick, Rinne and Fluery are continuing to show development each year. These are the type of goalie teams take a chance on to build their team around. Once drafted, rarely will a team offer them in trade. They are so rare that seldom does a team obtain one for years if at all. Ask Brian Burke. With three teams now, he has yet to obtain or draft a franchise level goalie. With the Leafs he is clsoe now, but not there yet if at all. If a team does obtain or draft a true franchise level goalie, the team's GM will make sure such a player is signed and tied to the team for years to come even at the cost of overspending. Schneider just happens to be on a team with another legitimate franchise goalie so potentially could be traded.
Even then, Gillis will do his best to keep Schneider on the Canucks along with Luongo. As far as the Canucks are concerned Luongo's contract is a great deal for the Canucks. It guarantees the Canucks a franchise level goalie for years to come and at a salary cap already being considered cheap for any franchise or top ten goalie. Gillis may consider keeping Schneider also long term if Schneider will consider signing a similar contract to Luongo's with the Canucks. It would guarantee the Canucks the strongest goal tending in the league and potentially a playoff dynasty status similar to that of Detroit. The Canuck's forwards and defense are already reasonably strong so not much tweaking will be required over the years. Such a state where the team is a perenial playoff team would also help guarantee Gillis a long career with Vancouver.
One way to look at trading a draft pick is to look at it the way a GM does. His job is to improve the team, now and in the future. If Cory Schneider was placed in this season's draft, not as an 18 year old , but at his present level of development, would he be a top five pick? If he was a top 5 pick would your team be stronger now and in the predictable future if you drafted him rather than any of the others at your time to pick?
A trade to Washington is far more likely than Columbus. Schneider is not bringing back a first or second overall pick. You're getting a number three defense man. Book it.
A trade to Washington is far more likely than Columbus. Schneider is not bringing back a first or second overall pick. You're getting a number three defense man. Book it.
A trade to Washington is far more likely than Columbus. Schneider is not bringing back a first or second overall pick. You're getting a number three defense man. Book it.
Washington has Neuvirth and Holtby. They can sign a veteran to compete and push then I don't think a young goalie is a need for the Caps.
I could see Washington very interested in Schnieder, the market for Schneider will be pretty big Washington, New Jersey, Tampa Bay, Columbus, Toronto who will all have a legit shot, also I'm sure Chicago and Edmonton will be calling but Gillis letting them know he isn't available then to trade him the next day lol
If the top overall pick/whatever player gets drafted with that pick is all potential bust and unproven and has less value than people think, why would anyone trade a good backup goalie for it?
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"Every game, every point is a necessity." -- Ty Conklin, January 2007
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They can keep the 1st then. I doubt Edler alone would be traded for the 1st. Adding Mason is useless, because Mason has no value to the canucks.
You see how it is with goalies? Mason is useless now, but just a few years back he finished 2nd in Vezina voting, 4th in Hart voting and won the Calder.
Mike Smith was in similar to Schneider situation a few years back and his trade became a disaster for Tampa. He ended up in Phoenix and right now establishing NHL records and riding 3 games shutout streak. What if Schneider's trade doesn't work out for the Jackets like Smith's trade has never worked for Tampa? Top-10 pick is too much for such gamble.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs44
Your an Oiler fan so obviously I can see you overrating a #1 pick... Yakupov is unproven, he has done absolutely nothing at the NHL level, but somehow he is worth a top 10 defensman in the league, AND a young starting goaltender?
Those "unproven" and "has done nothing" comments I read over here every year. Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, RNH... All of them were "unproven". I could understand you though cause the Avs got E.Johnson - probably the worst 1st overall pick over the past decade.
Your an Oiler fan so obviously I can see you overrating a #1 pick... Yakupov is unproven, he has done absolutely nothing at the NHL level, but somehow he is worth a top 10 defensman in the league, AND a young starting goaltender?
