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NHL Awards for 2013-2014

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Old
04-08-2014, 08:57 AM
  #126
Lemonlimey
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What is with this revisionist history about how Roy simply stepped into a "powerhouse" team and other coaches should be considered because of their injury lists. Raise your hand if your name is Babcock or Bylsma, everyone else - Roy has had worse injuries to contend with than you. And he wins over Iron Mike because of those pesky 19 more points in the standings (again, with his own entire top 6 line on the IR alot of the year). Patrick brought a franchise back from the dead, and kept them rolling in a year when everyone kept saying it was a fluke and when his top players kept dropping like flies.

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04-09-2014, 05:32 PM
  #127
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Mckenzie tweets Rask is clear ahead for the Vezina.

Not sure if I'm being a homer or east coast bias, but Varlamov should at least be close..Faces 400 more shots, plays behind a much worse defence, has a .927 to Rask's 9.29, and 5 more wins. Varlamov has 40 wins in less than 60 starts!

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Old
04-09-2014, 05:55 PM
  #128
UsernameWasTaken
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 39m
Hart: Crosby unanimous, 16 for 16. ANA's Getzlaf clear runner up, PHI's Giroux 3rd. No one else close tho Pavelski, Rask, Chara mentioned.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 36m
Vezina: BOS's Rask a clear No. 1 (10 for 16) with COL's Varlamov solid 2nd. MTL's Price and TB's Bishop in virtual dead heat for 3rd spot.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 35m
Norris: Most hotly contested award. CHI's Keith No. 1, appearing on 13 of 16 ballots with a high of five 1st place votes.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 33m
BOS's Chara (four 1st place votes) and NSH's Weber (three 1st place votes) were virtually tied in voting points behind Keith.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 30m
NYR McDonagh, MIN Suter, STL Pietrangelo and LA Doughty also got one first-place vote each to place 4th thru 7th with OTT Karlsson at 8th.

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Old
04-09-2014, 05:58 PM
  #129
Brad Doty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORLY View Post
Mckenzie tweets Rask is clear ahead for the Vezina.

Not sure if I'm being a homer or east coast bias
, but Varlamov should at least be close..Faces 400 more shots, plays behind a much worse defence, has a .927 to Rask's 9.29, and 5 more wins. Varlamov has 40 wins in less than 60 starts!
I think it helps if you look at it a little bit differently. Even Rask being "clear' ahead isn't the typical HF AINEC, it could even just mean all those GMs have Rask as 1 and Varlamov as 2. Did I say that in a way that makes sense? Need my coffee, heh.

And in regards to the Patty Roy thing above, I think part of the argument is that the Avs weren't as bad as they looked last year so it's a little bit of an illusion that they went from true last to where they are now. I think he should win because he's obviously doing even more than most expected and is doing it on his own merits rather than just inheriting a powerhouse, but I can see where that line of thinking is coming from, with all due respect.

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Old
04-09-2014, 06:33 PM
  #130
Lemonlimey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Doty View Post
And in regards to the Patty Roy thing above, I think part of the argument is that the Avs weren't as bad as they looked last year so it's a little bit of an illusion that they went from true last to where they are now. I think he should win because he's obviously doing even more than most expected and is doing it on his own merits rather than just inheriting a powerhouse, but I can see where that line of thinking is coming from, with all due respect.
Thats well said and I agree completely, last year was kind of a fluke the way the Avs fell apart and adds some illusion to the "leap" this year. Its one reason why i would never deign to declare that the Jack Adams "is not even close" as people like to when pimping their candidates. Its very very close.

I just think Roy wins because he's also had injuries. Big ones. Not as bad as Detroit, no. But Tanguay and Parenteau out most of the year + Stastny and Duchene each going down at different times, if Patrick had just dragged the Avs to the playoff bubble like Babcock has done I believe he'd be a worthy nominee. Contending for 1st in the West with 3 games left puts him over the top.

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04-09-2014, 08:09 PM
  #131
apricissimus
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Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie 39m
Hart: Crosby unanimous, 16 for 16. ANA's Getzlaf clear runner up, PHI's Giroux 3rd. No one else close tho Pavelski, Rask, Chara mentioned.
Chara? Really? For the Hart? He's still good, but does not belong in that discussion.

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Old
04-09-2014, 08:28 PM
  #132
northeastern
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Chara? Really? For the Hart? He's still good, but does not belong in that discussion.
Agreed. If anyone from the bruins id say bergy before char...

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Old
04-09-2014, 08:32 PM
  #133
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Keith over Weber? How....if Weber was on Chi, the guy would be at 60 pts..maybe even 70.

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04-09-2014, 09:44 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORLY View Post
Mckenzie tweets Rask is clear ahead for the Vezina.

Not sure if I'm being a homer or east coast bias, but Varlamov should at least be close..Faces 400 more shots, plays behind a much worse defence, has a .927 to Rask's 9.29, and 5 more wins. Varlamov has 40 wins in less than 60 starts!
Keep in mind he did only poll 16 of 30 head coaches. We dont know if there are balanced between east and west.

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Old
04-09-2014, 09:48 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by AimForTopCheddar View Post
Keith over Weber? How....if Weber was on Chi, the guy would be at 60 pts..maybe even 70.
but he is not...that is like saying if Karlsson played on Chicago he would have a +37.....but alas....players play for certain teams...

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04-09-2014, 09:49 PM
  #136
Meeqs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Doty View Post
I think it helps if you look at it a little bit differently. Even Rask being "clear' ahead isn't the typical HF AINEC, it could even just mean all those GMs have Rask as 1 and Varlamov as 2. Did I say that in a way that makes sense? Need my coffee, heh.

And in regards to the Patty Roy thing above, I think part of the argument is that the Avs weren't as bad as they looked last year so it's a little bit of an illusion that they went from true last to where they are now. I think he should win because he's obviously doing even more than most expected and is doing it on his own merits rather than just inheriting a powerhouse, but I can see where that line of thinking is coming from, with all due respect.
Its not like the Avs were just bad last year, they have been bad for quite some time. Hence why they have had the #1, #2 and #3 overall pick (along with what would have been the 11th i believe) over the past few years.

Same pieces but Roy COACHED them to a top 5 team in one season. Its easy for people to say "but the Avs were actually a good team", however very few if any would have said that before this season and before Roy.

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04-10-2014, 12:31 PM
  #137
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Why Chara should win the Norris

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...lkA1ZJUDMwNF8x

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04-10-2014, 02:01 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by VeddarRants View Post
Dan Rosen's case for Chara winning the Norris.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=713379

Wouldn't it be something if Rask wins the Veznia, Bergeron the Selke and Chara the Norris? Possible?

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04-10-2014, 02:33 PM
  #139
Meeqs
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Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
Dan Rosen's case for Chara winning the Norris.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=713379

Wouldn't it be something if Rask wins the Veznia, Bergeron the Selke and Chara the Norris? Possible?
You think Bruins having the best Dman and the best Defensive forward would hurt Rasks case for Vezina

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04-10-2014, 02:47 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
Dan Rosen's case for Chara winning the Norris.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=713379

Wouldn't it be something if Rask wins the Veznia, Bergeron the Selke and Chara the Norris? Possible?
Clearly Chara is inflating Rask's stats, while Rask is inflating Bergeron's stats and Bergeron is inflating Chara's stats.

Maybe those three are the major pillars making the Bruins are the team they are.


Last edited by Prophet: 04-10-2014 at 02:53 PM.
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Old
04-10-2014, 03:24 PM
  #141
Chieftans22*
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Clearly Chara is inflating Rask's stats, while Rask is inflating Bergeron's stats and Bergeron is inflating Chara's stats.

Maybe those three are the major pillars making the Bruins are the team they are.
That means that none of them are the best, it's not possible, since they are all equally responsible. There's a limited amount of "#1" that can go around on each team, and some teams, like Colorado, spend it all on their goalie, so he has to be #1. The Bruins only spend 1/3 on Rask, so he's worse than Varlamov.


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04-10-2014, 05:02 PM
  #142
nanzenkills
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMiller View Post
Dan Rosen's case for Chara winning the Norris.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=713379

Wouldn't it be something if Rask wins the Veznia, Bergeron the Selke and Chara the Norris? Possible?
I think Rask is going to win the Vezina, and Bergeron is going to win the Selke, but it seems like people have Keith ahead of Chara for the Norris. It's certainly possible, but my feeling is that Chara isn't going to win the Norris.

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Old
04-10-2014, 05:11 PM
  #143
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Chara? Really? For the Hart? He's still good, but does not belong in that discussion.
Boston homers

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04-10-2014, 05:52 PM
  #144
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Agreed. If anyone from the bruins id say bergy before char...
I don't know, I think the Bruins would actually do better without Bergy than without Chara. Looking at the defense full of rookies, I am scared of the idea of not having Chara there. Both players are immensely valuable, but centre is the position of strength, while defense, especially with Seidenberg out, would be exposed without Z.

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04-10-2014, 06:14 PM
  #145
kitsel
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Originally Posted by Lemonlimey View Post
Thats well said and I agree completely, last year was kind of a fluke the way the Avs fell apart and adds some illusion to the "leap" this year. Its one reason why i would never deign to declare that the Jack Adams "is not even close" as people like to when pimping their candidates. Its very very close.

I just think Roy wins because he's also had injuries. Big ones. Not as bad as Detroit, no. But Tanguay and Parenteau out most of the year + Stastny and Duchene each going down at different times, if Patrick had just dragged the Avs to the playoff bubble like Babcock has done I believe he'd be a worthy nominee. Contending for 1st in the West with 3 games left puts him over the top.

People can't keep having it both ways. The whole year it's been "fluke" and "will fall back to earth" and things like that. Everyone was convinced the Avs would be terrible and have been convinced they would collapse until extremely recently. Even a lot of Avs fans were predicting a 2nd wild card spot or sneaking into the playoffs.

Then suddenly, the success continues Roy has a powerhouse team and doesn't deserve credit because he had so much individual skill at his disposal.

Which is it? Are the Avs a mediocre team that will "fall back to earth?" In that case, Roy deserves a bunch of credit. Or are they a powerhouse? In this case, the constant insistence that the regression was imminent and inevitable was completely unfounded.

I'm also kind of stunned at how many people have price and Bishop over Varly for #2 for the Vezina. Frankly I don't care if Mack wins the Calder or if one of the Avs players gets the selke. The Selke is a pretty subjective award and there are plenty of other deserve candidates. Palat has had a great year and has made enough of a case for himself that it wouldn't bother me if either he or mack won. But the lack of credit to Varly is almost criminal - some people from as recently as a week ago have him as far down as 4 or 5 on their list!

I feel like the Mack/Palat situation is similar to the Rask/Varly one in that it wouldn't bother me if either of them won, I think it's that close. Their sv%s are extremely close and I honestly believe team dependent stats like wins, shutouts, and goals against are bad indicators as they are direct functions of team quality and shots against. Most of the advanced metrics have Rask/Varly neck and neck and I think it pretty much is. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if either of them won it but having anyone but varlamov as 2nd or having it be an absolute blowout would be a little bit upsetting.


Last edited by kitsel: 04-10-2014 at 06:19 PM.
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