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The Tambo years: the fallout, the recovery.

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Old
07-22-2014, 09:09 PM
  #101
Up the Irons
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
Lowe and Mactavish don't have the typical coach and GM relationship. They are ex teammates with a thirty year friendship. This isn't boss and employee. It's two guys that have known and trusted each other for a long time. Prior to Mactavish leaving the organization it was difficult to tell which of these guys was the dominant guy in their relationship. I think it was obvious who it was during the press conference to announce Mactavish as GM. He was the guy who took over after Lowe's tirade and calmed things back down. He was the one out of the two who appeared like he was intelligent and had a plan.

Mactavish was on record after his firing/resignation as saying that he was involved with every single player acquisition while he was coach. The media here tried to give him an out that he was just a coach and the poor player choices were not at all his fault. He didn't take it. I have no problem believing he was telling Lowe which players he wanted signed and which players to go after. All these guys own this mess, including Mactavish.
hmmmm. you're right. even now, Mact seems to be the brains. It's like the organization is trying to pull Lowe away, yet still want to pay him. They bring in Nicholson because he brings something that Lowe couldn't do (really, to cleanup Lowe's nepotism gongshow) but make damn sure that he is not above Lowe. He is not Lowe's boss. What the hell is so irreplacably valuable about Lowe?

Its weird, really. If there has ever been a situation where a hockey exec showed by fired, its right here, right now, yet its never, ever going to happen.

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07-23-2014, 12:08 AM
  #102
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Tamby was handcuffed by poor signings from his predecessor and couldn't do much (so he signed bad players)

We finally got rid of all the bad contracts and MacT just goes out and restocks the cupboard with them, now what this organization needs is another 3-4 years of a Tamby doing jack to fix MacT's colossal mistakes.

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07-23-2014, 12:11 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by skorf View Post
Tamby was handcuffed by poor signings from his predecessor and couldn't do much (so he signed bad players)

We finally got rid of all the bad contracts and MacT just goes out and restocks the cupboard with them, now what this organization needs is another 3-4 years of a Tamby doing jack to fix MacT's colossal mistakes.
Great summation. This is what I fear is happening too.

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07-23-2014, 12:21 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by skorf View Post
Tamby was handcuffed by poor signings from his predecessor and couldn't do much (so he signed bad players)

We finally got rid of all the bad contracts and MacT just goes out and restocks the cupboard with them, now what this organization needs is another 3-4 years of a Tamby doing jack to fix MacT's colossal mistakes.
That doesn't explain the poor trades. He gave Brodziak away for nothing.

Yes the team had bad contracts at the time but you'll be hard pressed to find an NHL team without a few bad contracts. He compiled the problem by signing worse deals.

To wit, the Oilers went from a near miss team in 08 and 09 to DFL in '10.

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07-23-2014, 01:36 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
Great summation. This is what I fear is happening too.
The only way skorfs argument makes sense is if the 'bad' contracts eat up too much of the cap. It this case it doesnt.


A willingness to take a risk to improve the team....that possibility wasnt even in Tambos realm of awareness.

That for me was one of his many fatal flaws.


Last edited by guymez: 07-23-2014 at 02:03 AM. Reason: clarity
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07-23-2014, 02:07 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
Lowe and Mactavish don't have the typical coach and GM relationship. They are ex teammates with a thirty year friendship. This isn't boss and employee. It's two guys that have known and trusted each other for a long time. Prior to Mactavish leaving the organization it was difficult to tell which of these guys was the dominant guy in their relationship. I think it was obvious who it was during the press conference to announce Mactavish as GM. He was the guy who took over after Lowe's tirade and calmed things back down. He was the one out of the two who appeared like he was intelligent and had a plan.

Mactavish was on record after his firing/resignation as saying that he was involved with every single player acquisition while he was coach. The media here tried to give him an out that he was just a coach and the poor player choices were not at all his fault. He didn't take it. I have no problem believing he was telling Lowe which players he wanted signed and which players to go after. All these guys own this mess, including Mactavish.

MACTs reaction to when Lowe starts seperating "fans" is pretty priceless. You can tell he knows Lowe shouldnt be talking, but yet surprised it went there, and spends the rest of the time trying to find the right spot to interrupt without making Lowe look like he is being shut up.
His reaction to the mention of having different kinds of fans is...pretty telling. Lowe was really on an island at that point. MacTavish was very anxious to shut Lowe up at that point.


Lowe takes alot of things very personally and when that happens his IQ really drops.

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07-23-2014, 02:48 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
The only way skorfs argument makes sense is if the 'bad' contracts eat up too much of the cap. It this case it doesnt.


A willingness to take a risk to improve the team....that possibility wasnt even in Tambos realm of awareness.

That for me was one of his many fatal flaws.
Just to make things clear, I'm not in any way trying to defend the job that Tambellini did. This team is horrible in part to what he accomplished. That said the futility didn't start with him. It started with Lowe and Mactavish when they went on a spending spree when EIG loosened the purse strings and lightened up on micro managing them after the cup run. My interest in this thread is with people believing Mactavish is doing such a wonderful job when, not only their is nothing to back it up yet, but they are operating the team the same way they did starting in 06-07 when they started overpaying for role players.

Pretty sure they didn't think all those bad contracts couldn't possibly hurt the team back in 2007, otherwise they wouldn't have handed them out, look how that worked out for them. Same guys making the same decisions. I hope it works out. I really do but these guys have a history of making bad choices.

I get your optimism, I too was frustrated by several years of the Oilers doing nothing. Mactavish is bringing new players in here and there is fresh hope. The problem is the players he brought in aren't really guaranteed to be a whole lot better than the ones he shipped out and those guys were terrible. The worst part of that is they have big dollar contracts with lots of term so if they really aren't any better than the guys they've replaced we're stuck with them. At least Tambellini's guys were cheap. You can't hope for the cap to keep going up. It's going to be $2 million short of what was originally predicted next year, that raises a red flag for me.

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07-23-2014, 03:36 AM
  #108
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The reality with edmonton...as proven by player polls...is people dont want to play here.

Pay or get out of the way and enjoy your junior hockey team. You will have to overpay players who have options. Pretty simple.

Players a re millionaires. They can mak money ANYWHERE.

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07-23-2014, 12:07 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
Just to make things clear, I'm not in any way trying to defend the job that Tambellini did. This team is horrible in part to what he accomplished. That said the futility didn't start with him. It started with Lowe and Mactavish when they went on a spending spree when EIG loosened the purse strings and lightened up on micro managing them after the cup run. My interest in this thread is with people believing Mactavish is doing such a wonderful job when, not only their is nothing to back it up yet, but they are operating the team the same way they did starting in 06-07 when they started overpaying for role players.

Pretty sure they didn't think all those bad contracts couldn't possibly hurt the team back in 2007, otherwise they wouldn't have handed them out, look how that worked out for them. Same guys making the same decisions. I hope it works out. I really do but these guys have a history of making bad choices.

I get your optimism, I too was frustrated by several years of the Oilers doing nothing. Mactavish is bringing new players in here and there is fresh hope. The problem is the players he brought in aren't really guaranteed to be a whole lot better than the ones he shipped out and those guys were terrible. The worst part of that is they have big dollar contracts with lots of term so if they really aren't any better than the guys they've replaced we're stuck with them. At least Tambellini's guys were cheap. You can't hope for the cap to keep going up. It's going to be $2 million short of what was originally predicted next year, that raises a red flag for me.
He is doing the same thing because it's still Edmonton. They have to out bid everyone else. Is it ideal? No.

Are they better off with Parcell, Pouliot, Hendicks, Gordon, Ference, Nikitin, Fayne, Scrivens, Fasch then with Hemsky, Gagner, Horcoff, Jones, Potter, Hartekainen, Smyth, N. Schultz, Dubnyk? My sense is yes, but who knows. But, at least he is not sticking with the status quo. Tambo's fallback position was: if it's not a slamdunk home run, do nothing. I'll never forgive him for the summer of '12. They were 29th, and all he did was add two rookies and fired Renney. Inconceivable.

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07-23-2014, 12:32 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
Just to make things clear, I'm not in any way trying to defend the job that Tambellini did. This team is horrible in part to what he accomplished. That said the futility didn't start with him. It started with Lowe and Mactavish when they went on a spending spree when EIG loosened the purse strings and lightened up on micro managing them after the cup run. My interest in this thread is with people believing Mactavish is doing such a wonderful job when, not only their is nothing to back it up yet, but they are operating the team the same way they did starting in 06-07 when they started overpaying for role players.
There are many indications that MacT was a large part of the reason players like Progner, Samsonov, Spacek and Pecca et al were acquired.I also think that there were instances in the 2006 run where MacT clearly out coached his opposition.

I think there is evidence to support that MacT brings some much needed smarts to this group.

Quote:
Pretty sure they didn't think all those bad contracts couldn't possibly hurt the team back in 2007, otherwise they wouldn't have handed them out, look how that worked out for them. Same guys making the same decisions. I hope it works out. I really do but these guys have a history of making bad choices.
What bad contracts are you referring to?

Quote:
I get your optimism, I too was frustrated by several years of the Oilers doing nothing. Mactavish is bringing new players in here and there is fresh hope. The problem is the players he brought in aren't really guaranteed to be a whole lot better than the ones he shipped out and those guys were terrible. The worst part of that is they have big dollar contracts with lots of term so if they really aren't any better than the guys they've replaced we're stuck with them. At least Tambellini's guys were cheap. You can't hope for the cap to keep going up. It's going to be $2 million short of what was originally predicted next year, that raises a red flag for me.
In a general sense this situation lends itself to overpaying. I dont see how anyone can dispute that.

That said I am interested to know how you are viewing this. What comparisons are you making in terms of the players acquired and the players departing? Where exactly is your concern?

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07-23-2014, 12:37 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by skorf View Post
Tamby was handcuffed by poor signings from his predecessor and couldn't do much (so he signed bad players)

We finally got rid of all the bad contracts and MacT just goes out and restocks the cupboard with them, now what this organization needs is another 3-4 years of a Tamby doing jack to fix MacT's colossal mistakes.
What bad contracts? Only one I can think of is Pouliot. At least let him play before we judge. Every other "questionable" contract is off the books in 2 seasons. Hall, Eberle and RNH are on pretty good contracts considering which way the league is trending.

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07-23-2014, 02:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
There are many indications that MacT was a large part of the reason players like Progner, Samsonov, Spacek and Pecca et al were acquired.I also think that there were instances in the 2006 run where MacT clearly out coached his opposition.

Really? Please elaborate. He got the team to play a trap game. That's something I suppose. Let's try not to forget that they had a pretty easy route to the finals. They did beat Detroit, the #1 seed in the first round but they also lucked out after that and beat #5 seed SanJose and #6 seed Anaheim. Wasn't the first time the Wings were upset in the first round back then. San Jose and Anaheim were soft finesse teams back then and the Oilers just beat them up. They avoided the three physical teams of Dallas, Calgary and Nashville, those teams beat the Oilers all year. Pretty fortunate. If that's clearly out coaching the opposition than so be it. Just keep in mind that he also made the huge blunder of having Conklin back up Roloson in game 1 of the finals. If he believed Conklin to be the #2 then why did Markkanen play the rest of the series? If Markkanen was clearly that much better than why wasn't he on the bench in the first place? Nobody expected Roloson to get hurt but I do expect a good coach to be prepared for it in case it happens. For God's sake it was the Stanley Cup finals and that decision cost the team the win.


I think there is evidence to support that MacT brings some much needed smarts to this group.

Didn't he have those same smarts in 2007?



What bad contracts are you referring to?
Ference
Pouliot
Gagner-which has now turned into Purcell

Let's also not forget about the Eakins contract while were talking about bad contracts. While not counting against the cap, this one has been the worst of the bunch so far when you consider the damage it's doing to the team.



In a general sense this situation lends itself to overpaying. I dont see how anyone can dispute that.


This I agree with. Where I disagree with you is that I would rather over pay on guys I'm convinced can actually help this team instead of just spending all my money to give the impression that I'm working hard. This is what was happening after 2007. Mactavish has gone out and spent close to the cap without addressing most of the teams needs. Outside of Fayne, nothing he did addresses the teams biggest concerns. We need centers. He didn't acquire any and on top of that he traded away Horcoff and Gagner in the last two off seasons. This was fine but he hasn't replaced them. We had the weakest center depth in the league before those moves and it's much worse now. We have a terrible imbalance on our top two lines, nothing was done here. Spending close to the cap when you don't address team needs is not how you improve a bad roster, it just limits your options down the road.

That said I am interested to know how you are viewing this. What comparisons are you making in terms of the players acquired and the players departing? Where exactly is your concern?
.
I think I've answered this above. Just my opinion and if I'm wrong and these guys work out then I'll admit that I was wrong and give Mactavish credit for it. If these guys don't work out what's your response going to be? Will it be that Mac T screwed up and set this team back in a similar fashion that Tambellini did or are you one of these guys that justifies it all by saying "it's okay because every team has bad contracts" while we watch this team continue to flounder for several more years?

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07-23-2014, 02:36 PM
  #113
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The reality with edmonton...as proven by player polls...is people dont want to play here.

Pay or get out of the way and enjoy your junior hockey team. You will have to overpay players who have options. Pretty simple.

Players a re millionaires. They can mak money ANYWHERE.
Exactly... After the last several years I'm just happy our roster is mostly filled with NHL players that should at least play interesting hockey.

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