his size, speed and skill jumps out every time i've seen him play. thats in addition to his two way play which is also impressive evident by his +/- and situational play. i.e. being on the ice to close out a lead against the Leafs
Kessel is fast and has a great wrist shot, he is improving other areas of his game but Seguin is already the better player and could be a scary player if he can keep it together/focus
Boston looks like they got the better of the trade, why don't people move on. Why don't we focus on the Phaneuf trade? Jeez.. some of you must be very difficult to be around with all your negativity.
Last edited by LeafsJaysRaptors: 03-12-2013 at 10:23 AM.
his size, speed and skill jumps out every time i've seen him play. thats in addition to his two way play which is also impressive evident by his +/- and situational play. i.e. being on the ice to close out a lead against the Leafs
Kessel is fast and has a great wrist shot, he is improving other areas of his game but Seguin is already the better player and could be a scary player if he can keep it together/focus
Kessel is faster, has a better shot, and is a better passer than Seguin currently is. Seguin is better than Kessel defensively, but he also plays on Boston who are one of the best defensive teams in the league meaning that any defensive deficiencies he has are unlikely to be as easily exposed as that of Kessel. Also, +/- is a terrible stat (ie. Mark Fraser is one the best players in the league going off +/-)
Nobody is saying Seguin would have carried the leafs to the promised land. However right now Seguin is a much more effective player than Kessel and Hamilton looks like be could be a top five defenceman someday.
As for getting over it this is a fan base that still talks about Barilko. Personally I am still not over the Tiger Williams trade. Perhaps you are new at this? This will go down with the worst of the Ballard trades and that is saying something
As far as Kessel goes he will have the trade albatross around his neck. To further the nautical theme I think he will be a full out Jonah if we get blown out first round or don't make the playoffs.
If Bozak is not here I think there is zero chance he resigns so Kessel has even more overhead than his bad defence.
Darryl Sittler for Rich Costello, Ken Strong and a 2nd
Russ Courtnall for John Kordic
Lol. Watch any Leafs vs Bruins game and try to find Kessel. And then notice how Seguin is likely wrecking us.
We got a great one dimensional player, and we possibly gave up two franchise players plus another guy.
Do you guys ever realize that there are about 5 other scoring threats on the Bruins, 3-4 of which are a grinder/scoring mix? In that kind of a scenario, a player like Seguin has a great chance to succeed, just like Kessel did in his Boston days.
I'm not defending Kessel here. What I'm saying is Seguin playing well against us doesn't necessarily mean he's not one dimensional. He isn't too hot about physical play either. He's not as soft as Kessel, but I would put him in the soft category.
Do you guys ever realize that there are about 5 other scoring threats on the Bruins, 3-4 of which are a grinder/scoring mix? In that kind of a scenario, a player like Seguin has a great chance to succeed, just like Kessel did in his Boston days.
I'm not defending Kessel here. What I'm saying is Seguin playing well against us doesn't necessarily mean he's not one dimensional. He isn't too hot about physical play either. He's not as soft as Kessel, but I would put him in the soft category.
Good post, I'd also like to add..
It's funny that we all marvel at the physicality and defensive prowess of the Boston Bruins from top to bottom, as well as the immense depth that is found throughout their roster. However, it seems like certain posters don't factor in the immediate effects found playing on a team with 2 very competitive first lines, or especially in Tyler Seguin's case playing on a line with a Selke winning center and a young physical LW on pace for 44G.
Lucic-Krejci-Horton
Marchand-Bergeron-Seguin
That 2nd line is arguably better than what we have been icing as our first line since Joffrey Lupul went down (JVR-Bozak-Kessel) in terms of physicality, two-way play and recently, offensive play as well.
It's sad that people like to pretend that the conditions of a team or on a line don't have an effect on the numbers said player produces or the overall efficiency of their game. You don't think Phil Kessel would greatly benefit from playing with a center capable of playing shutdown defense while posting near-PPG offensive production?
At this juncture:
Phil Kessel >/= Tyler Seguin
Phil Kessel is considerably more proven, and is arguably the better overall offensive player at this point in time. They are both rather nonexistent physically, and I have not been particularly impressed with the defensive play of either player. They both rely on speed as their primary attribute and are equally good goal scorers as playmakers. Tyler Seguin on the other hand is younger, has shown an upward trajectory in development under a very tough coach and on a winning team, and arguably (I don't subscribe to this theory this but some do), has a "better compete level."
Say we have Stamkos in our line-up in place of Kessel, playing with Bozak as his set up man, and Lupul playing as the only other offensive threat on the team. Does he score 45?
I mean sure, 15 goals is a lot. But you have to consider the loss of St. Louis, a hart winner, art ross winner, and someone with 50 assists per season with Stamkos. Also note the loss of Lecavalier, who while not on Stamkos' line, is definitely someone opposing teams have to consider a major threat every game.
Then, if you really don't know whether Stamkos could get to the 45 goal mark on this team, reflect on your thoughts of someone who hasn't gotten less than 30 in his 4 years as a Leaf and had 37 playing with Bozak as his set up man and Lupul (same line) as his other main threat.
Say we have Stamkos in our line-up in place of Kessel, playing with Bozak as his set up man, and Lupul playing as the only other offensive threat on the team. Does he score 45?
I mean sure, 15 goals is a lot. But you have to consider the loss of St. Louis, a hart winner, art ross winner, and someone with 50 assists per season with Stamkos. Also note the loss of Lecavalier, who while not on Stamkos' line, is definitely someone opposing teams have to consider a major threat every game.
Then, if you really don't know whether Stamkos could get to the 45 goal mark on this team, reflect on your thoughts of someone who hasn't gotten less than 30 in his 4 years as a Leaf and had 37 playing with Bozak as his set up man and Lupul (same line) as his other main threat.
For sure, and then your top line looks like JvR, Lupul and Stamkos....not a bad line at all right now. If Loops and JvR could set him up once in a while.
Say we have Stamkos in our line-up in place of Kessel, playing with Bozak as his set up man, and Lupul playing as the only other offensive threat on the team. Does he score 45?
I mean sure, 15 goals is a lot. But you have to consider the loss of St. Louis, a hart winner, art ross winner, and someone with 50 assists per season with Stamkos. Also note the loss of Lecavalier, who while not on Stamkos' line, is definitely someone opposing teams have to consider a major threat every game.
Then, if you really don't know whether Stamkos could get to the 45 goal mark on this team, reflect on your thoughts of someone who hasn't gotten less than 30 in his 4 years as a Leaf and had 37 playing with Bozak as his set up man and Lupul (same line) as his other main threat.
Food for thought.
Stamkos put up 95 points at age 19 playing with St. Louis.
Kessel put up 60 points at age 21 playing with Savard, Savard who had 88 pts that season.
There's really no food for thought. Stamkos is a far far better player.
Too many people here underrate Kessel, while elevating Seguin to elite level alongside the likes of Crosby and Stamkos. Put Seguin in a Leafs uniform over the last 4 years and Phil in a Bruins uniform and I really doubt fans would think that Kessel would not be considered elite.
There is a difference between playing with someone and playing on the same team as someone.
Also, Kessel got 60 points and 36 goals in 70 games, on a good team yes, 21 yes, not anywhere near the top of his team in terms of depth though.
Then again, are you implying that Savard is/was a better player/playmaker than St. Louis? I'm confused with that one.
umm... He did play with Savard... Savard assisted on the majority of Kessels goals that year.
And do I think Savard was as complete or dominant a player as St. Louis? No. But was he one of the very best playmakers in the league? Yes.
He had four straight seasons with 60+ assists, one of which was over 70. St. Louis only has two career seasons with more than 60 assists.
Seriously, if you aren't aware of the fact that Savard was one of the very best playmakers in the league over the past 10 years, and you think a Kessel to Stamkos comparison is legitimate, you really need to rethink some of your opinions/viewpoints.
I do like your condescending comment of "I'm confused with that one", since it really shows how confident you are in your incorrect assessment of Savard.
Too many people here underrate Kessel, while elevating Seguin to elite level alongside the likes of Crosby and Stamkos. Put Seguin in a Leafs uniform over the last 4 years and Phil in a Bruins uniform and I really doubt fans would think that Kessel would not be considered elite.
I have never heard anybody make a Seguin to Crosby/Stamkos comparison... So I don't really know what you're talking about.
umm... He did play with Savard... Savard assisted on the majority of Kessels goals that year.
And do I think Savard was as complete or dominant a player as St. Louis? No. But was he one of the very best playmakers in the league? Yes.
He had four straight seasons with 60+ assists, one of which was over 70. St. Louis only has two career seasons with more than 60 assists.
Seriously, if you aren't aware of the fact that Savard was one of the very best playmakers in the league over the past 10 years, and you think a Kessel to Stamkos comparison is legitimate, you really need to rethink some of your opinions/viewpoints.
I do like your condescending comment of "I'm confused with that one", since it really shows how confident you are in your incorrect assessment of Savard.
It's true that Savard was one of the best playmakers in the league. However keep in mind that Stamkos was playing on a pretty stacked team. Most were predicting that the Lightnings were to make it.
On the other hand, most were not expecting the Leafs to win. It is quite interesting that despite not being as talent, Kessel was able to raise the performance of his linemates. In fact, our place in the standings was similar to the Lightnings despite being in a much more competitive division.
Kessel is severely underrated. He doesn't have anyone like St Louis on his side. Unlike Stamkos who is an prototypical scoring centreman, Kessel is a very crafty playmaker. Give him the correct environment and he'll thrive.
PS: Stamkos is superior to Kessel. However, Kessel is also an elite player.
