which I understand....the drops are too far off from reality is my point. there simply isnt enough European players that will get drafted in the top 100 to knock down almost every US kid ranked.. it simply will not happen.. and the moral is the CS rankings were pretty bad this time out..many players are ranked much higher on other services yet see big drops on here. still not buying it.
By my count, Christopher Ralph has ranked 19 US-born players in his top 100 of which he has ranked 10 higher than Central Scouting or 53%. Chris, if you want to discriminate against US-born players, you will have to do so much better than this. Tsk! Tsk! The Central Scouting numbers are from the combined ranking I did at TheHockeyWriters.com. And by the way, Chris, you have Jimmy Lodge way too high, IMO.
# > CR CS Diff Name Team League
1 < 3 1 -2 JONES, SETH PORTLAND WHL
2 1 12 18 6 ERNE, ADAM QUEBEC QMJHL
3 2 26 30 4 COMPHER, JT USA U-18 USHL
4 < 36 29 -7 MCCOSHEN, IAN WATERLOO USHL
5 < 38 35 -3 HARTMAN, RYAN PLYMOUTH OHL
6 3 40 53 13 BAILEY, JUSTIN KITCHENER OHL
7 4 42 44 2 HURLEY, CONNOR EDINA HIGH HIGH-MN
8 5 46 65 19 SANTINI, STEVEN USA U-18 USHL
9 6 48 70 22 THOMPSON, KEATON USA U-18 USHL
10 7 54 63 9 FITZGERALD, RYAN VALLEY EJHL
11 8 55 NR NR CAMMARATA, TAYLOR WATERLOO USHL
12 9 65 81 16 CASSELS, COLE OSHAWA OHL
13 < 69 68 -1 DOWNING, MICHAEL DUBUQUE USHL
14 < 71 56 -15 FASCHING, HUDSON USA U-18 USHL
15 10 72 80 8 HAYDEN, JOHN USA U-18 USHL
16 < 77 49 -28 PESCE, BRETT NEW HAMP. H-EAST
17 < 80 43 -37 MCCARRON, MICHAEL USA U-18 USHL
18 < 88 39 -49 LODGE, JIMMY SAGINAW OHL
19 < 89 85 -4 WHEATON, MITCHELL KELOWNA WHL
Scratch Mitchell Wheaton from the above list as he is Canadian as armaster pointed out below. This leaves a 55-45 split.
Last edited by ikelechien: 01-24-2013 at 06:02 PM.
Reason: Mitchell Wheaton
By my count, Christopher Ralph has ranked 19 US-born players in his top 100 of which he has ranked 10 higher than Central Scouting or 53%. Chris, if you want to discriminate against US-born players, you will have to do so much better than this. Tsk! Tsk! The Central Scouting numbers are from the combined ranking I did at TheHockeyWriters.com. And by the way, Chris, you have Jimmy Lodge way too high, IMO.
# > CR CS Diff Name Team League
1 < 3 1 -2 JONES, SETH PORTLAND WHL
2 1 12 18 6 ERNE, ADAM QUEBEC QMJHL
3 2 26 30 4 COMPHER, JT USA U-18 USHL
4 < 36 29 -7 MCCOSHEN, IAN WATERLOO USHL
5 < 38 35 -3 HARTMAN, RYAN PLYMOUTH OHL
6 3 40 53 13 BAILEY, JUSTIN KITCHENER OHL
7 4 42 44 2 HURLEY, CONNOR EDINA HIGH HIGH-MN
8 5 46 65 19 SANTINI, STEVEN USA U-18 USHL
9 6 48 70 22 THOMPSON, KEATON USA U-18 USHL
10 7 54 63 9 FITZGERALD, RYAN VALLEY EJHL
11 8 55 NR NR CAMMARATA, TAYLOR WATERLOO USHL
12 9 65 81 16 CASSELS, COLE OSHAWA OHL
13 < 69 68 -1 DOWNING, MICHAEL DUBUQUE USHL
14 < 71 56 -15 FASCHING, HUDSON USA U-18 USHL
15 10 72 80 8 HAYDEN, JOHN USA U-18 USHL
16 < 77 49 -28 PESCE, BRETT NEW HAMP. H-EAST
17 < 80 43 -37 MCCARRON, MICHAEL USA U-18 USHL
18 < 88 39 -49 LODGE, JIMMY SAGINAW OHL
19 < 89 85 -4 WHEATON, MITCHELL KELOWNA WHL
U are so correct. Had Michael Downing in my head which is not a good excuse since I had already listed Michael Downing!!!
Chris, this doesn't let U off the hook if U want to discriminate against US-born players as this minor adjustment puts U at 55-45 - doesn't look good for the discrimination!!!
Last edited by ikelechien: 01-24-2013 at 06:03 PM.
Reason: 55 45
Seth Jones, Ryan Pulock, Josh Morrissey, Shea Theodore, Madison Bowey, Mirco Mueller, Eric Roy, Macoy Erkamps, Jesse Lees, Dillon Heatherington, Mason Geertsen, Tyler Lewington, Tyler King, Marc McNulty, Ayrton Nikkel, Ty Stanton, Mitchell Wheaton, Adam Henry, Keegan Kanzig, Kayle Doetzel, could all be drafted.
U are so correct. Had Michael Downing in my head which is not a good excuse since I had already listed Michael Downing!!!
Chris, this doesn't let U off the hook if U want to discriminate against US-born players as this minor adjustment puts U at 55-45 - doesn't look good for the discrimination!!!
lol...too funny, ikelechien.
For the record, for me, there are no borders when it comes to the brotherhood of hockey. I judge on talent and potential; not birth certificate. The only exception is if it becomes evident a Russian prospect has no intention of crossing the pond - but that's getting harder to nail down these days.
These all seem like long term, limited upside players.
Big kids, but I'm wondering if they'll ever me more than 5/6's who play the PK.
Geertsen is the kid I favour (Brooks Orpik like upside for me), McNulty has only stuck out for me because he's huge in my viewings, not because he's good.
How would you rank them Zenon, who do you see them comparing too at the NHL level?
I'd probably go Geertsen, Wheaton, Doetzel, McNulty.
Agree. The NHL draft is a volitile and unpredictable process but I like all these kids games. They may be limited to 4-6 upside but having big defenseman in your bottom half is always good.
They all skate well and are tough to play against defensively.
They are going to be longer project guys. But have good upsides and are the type of players I would love to have on my defense.
So what I did was filter out the THW rankings into North American skaters only, and his list isn't as different as you exaggerate it to be Americandream
Name
THW
CSS
Diff
Seth Jones
3
1
-2
Adam Erne
9
13
+4
J.T Compher
19
20
+1
Ian McCoshen
27
21
-6
Ryan Hartman
29
25
-4
Justin Bailey
30
37
+7
Connor Hurley
32
32
0
Steven Santini
34
47
+13
Keaton Thompson
35
51
+16
Ryan Fitzgerald
40
46
+6
Cole Cassels
49
60
+11
Michael Downing
53
49
-4
Hudson Fasching
55
42
-13
John Hayden
56
59
+3
Brett Pesce
58
36
-22
Michael McCarron
60
31
-29
Jimmy Lodge
68
28
-40
Tyler Hill
71
85
+14
For me, it looks fairly even. The only times it great differs is when we are discussing 2nd round prospects, which in the THW rankings, fall into the 3rd. Not exactly a huge drop off.
I haven't seen all of the players being discussed, maybe only a couple of people here have but it's a very deep draft when the leading scorer for the WHL is ranked 35th.
Sure Petan is a small player but he isn't a perimeter one and he didn't skip a beat all season long, has been really consistent.
Jackson Houck at 94 is another guy who would be top 60 most years, heck I think someone takes him top 60 this year.
What I can tell you about this draft is that WHL defenseman such as Marc McNulty, Mason Geertsen, Mitch Wheaton, and Kayle Doetzel will provide teams with some wicked picks in the 50-100 area.
You nailed in Zenon. Got the makings of a deep draft and going to be some happy team scouts with who they are able to lock in on even in the 4th rnd and beyond.
Agree. The NHL draft is a volitile and unpredictable process but I like all these kids games. They may be limited to 4-6 upside but having big defenseman in your bottom half is always good.
They all skate well and are tough to play against defensively.
They are going to be longer project guys. But have good upsides and are the type of players I would love to have on my defense.
My rankings: Doetzel, Geertsen, Wheaton, McNulty.
Here's another question for you Zenon:
Does Ayrton Nikkel get drafted? Where?
Do you see NHL potential?
Reminds me a lot of Jesse Forsberg without the crazy, and I always thought he'd be drafted too.
I thought his offensive would have showed more by now, but being stuck behind Pulock and Roy probably stunted him.
Extremely young for the draft, so the potential to develop that side is there still, IMO.
Cheers.
Oh yeah, and thanks for the reply....also thanks THW for all your work.
Reminds me a lot of Jesse Forsberg without the crazy, and I always thought he'd be drafted too.
I thought his offensive would have showed more by now, but being stuck behind Pulock and Roy probably stunted him.
Extremely young for the draft, so the potential to develop that side is there still, IMO.
Cheers.
Oh yeah, and thanks for the reply....also thanks THW for all your work.
Nikkel is a decent prospect. You're right, he plays a kind of tough and rugged style. He definitely has a good chance to be drafted but if I were making picks there would be quite a few other defenseman I would consider later in the draft before Nikkel (Jensen, Lees, Kanzig, Erkamps )
I think getting moved to Everett could help him play bigger minutes and develop.
So what I did was filter out the THW rankings into North American skaters only, and his list isn't as different as you exaggerate it to be Americandream
Name
THW
CSS
Diff
Seth Jones
3
1
-2
Adam Erne
9
13
+4
J.T Compher
19
20
+1
Ian McCoshen
27
21
-6
Ryan Hartman
29
25
-4
Justin Bailey
30
37
+7
Connor Hurley
32
32
0
Steven Santini
34
47
+13
Keaton Thompson
35
51
+16
Ryan Fitzgerald
40
46
+6
Cole Cassels
49
60
+11
Michael Downing
53
49
-4
Hudson Fasching
55
42
-13
John Hayden
56
59
+3
Brett Pesce
58
36
-22
Michael McCarron
60
31
-29
Jimmy Lodge
68
28
-40
Tyler Hill
71
85
+14
For me, it looks fairly even. The only times it great differs is when we are discussing 2nd round prospects, which in the THW rankings, fall into the 3rd. Not exactly a huge drop off.
Owned. Thanks for putting that together, danccchan.
Thanks StayinAlive for your compilation. Understand many; intrigued by some.
Would be curious to hear you elaborate on some of there.
For the record, Vanelli narrowly missed the Top 100.
Barkov too low - is #4 - so you think top 3? or higher?
Dunn I wavered on for a variety of reasons.
Barkov should be at least Top 3. He has everything. Size, Skill, Shot, Vision. This kid has #1 C written all over him.
Dunn is a player i personally really like. Also one of the youngest players in the draf. I do get that he is only 5´11 an that high point production in the Q does not necessarily mean that much, but i would say he is a late 2nd/early 3rd rounder
Barkov should be at least Top 3. He has everything. Size, Skill, Shot, Vision. This kid has #1 C written all over him.
Dunn is a player i personally really like. Also one of the youngest players in the draf. I do get that he is only 5´11 an that high point production in the Q does not necessarily mean that much, but i would say he is a late 2nd/early 3rd rounder
Thanks for backing up your choices.
Dunn's going to be an interesting one to watch going forward - like to hear how his team interviews go. What did you think of his suspension in November?
The worst outlier in this ranking is actually Frederik Gauthier... And no one else. Otherwise, awesome rankings.
Thanks MXD; Gauthier became a victim to the numbers game for me; I love his potential and what he brings to the rink - other guys simply edged him out on my evaluation.
