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2014-15 National Junior Summer Development Camp

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Old
08-11-2014, 12:13 AM
  #76
Johnny Hoxville
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Originally Posted by Adirondack Flames View Post
I wonder how Huska will handle him in Abbotsford, I hope he puts his foot down on the undisciplined and lazy plays. Despite his offensive production with Abby at the end of the season and in the playoffs, I was not impressed with him because his commitment just didn't seem to be there.
I think he will, the AHL is more structured than Jr. so if Emile wants to play then he'll need to change his game. The kid definitely has wheels, but in that cooking video I saw of him he looked really skinny. I didn't think he put on much if any weight from the previous year. So when you see guys like Janko and Colborne packing on the meat, you gotta really got to give those kids credit.

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08-11-2014, 12:21 AM
  #77
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I think he will, the AHL is more structured than Jr. so if Emile wants to play then he'll need to change his game. The kid definitely has wheels, but in that cooking video I saw of him he looked really skinny. I didn't think he put on much if any weight from the previous year. So when you see guys like Janko and Colborne packing on the meat, you gotta really got to give those kids credit.
The reason I said that is Huska is going to be a pro coach for the first time and I honestly have no idea how much of a hard ass he can be.

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08-11-2014, 01:16 AM
  #78
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The reason I said that is Huska is going to be a pro coach for the first time and I honestly have no idea how much of a hard ass he can be.
Did you hear Wards interview on the Fan a few weeks ago, I seem to recall you saying you did as well? Anyways, he was quite candid about the fact on how last season the system he coached was mandated from the Flames (ie. Hartley's system). You could tell he wasn't thrilled about that because he obviously has his own ideas about how to coach a team and he wasn't allowed that freedom.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that Huska will be coaching Hartley's system in Adirondack. However, as you said I have no idea either about what kind of man/coach he is, and whether or not he'll crack the whip on Poirier. If Emile doesn't adapt and display that he's coachable, he's going to struggle for sure.

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08-11-2014, 01:32 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Johnny Hoxville View Post
Did you hear Wards interview on the Fan a few weeks ago, I seem to recall you saying you did as well? Anyways, he was quite candid about the fact on how last season the system he coached was mandated from the Flames (ie. Hartley's system). You could tell he wasn't thrilled about that because he obviously has his own ideas about how to coach a team and he wasn't allowed that freedom.

I think it's a pretty safe bet that Huska will be coaching Hartley's system in Adirondack. However, as you said I have no idea either about what kind of man/coach he is, and whether or not he'll crack the whip on Poirier. If Emile doesn't adapt and display that he's coachable, he's going to struggle for sure.
Ward is a coach that wants to win and not worry about the effect it may have on the development of prospects, or at least that is the impression I got. I know I brought this up before but around the time Berra was recalled (probably as a result of the Texas Massacre) Ward stopped playing Hartley's system in favor of a more defense oriented system. I get that he wants to win, but when your employer says they want the job done a specific way you need to do it.

While I didn't dislike Ward, I was not sad to see him go as he made a ton of questionable decisions when it came to the lineups and how he played his lines. Even when the Heat were basically an ECHL team he still tried to roll 4 lines and tried to spread the offense around, the problem with that is that he ended up putting 4th line and depth players on in the top 6 as a result.

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08-27-2014, 11:48 AM
  #80
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An update on McDavid: He is now up to 193 pounds, great to hear!

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08-27-2014, 10:51 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Adirondack Flames View Post
Ward is a coach that wants to win and not worry about the effect it may have on the development of prospects, or at least that is the impression I got. I know I brought this up before but around the time Berra was recalled (probably as a result of the Texas Massacre) Ward stopped playing Hartley's system in favor of a more defense oriented system. I get that he wants to win, but when your employer says they want the job done a specific way you need to do it.

While I didn't dislike Ward, I was not sad to see him go as he made a ton of questionable decisions when it came to the lineups and how he played his lines. Even when the Heat were basically an ECHL team he still tried to roll 4 lines and tried to spread the offense around, the problem with that is that he ended up putting 4th line and depth players on in the top 6 as a result.
The problem with that is that Hartley really doesn't have a system! Sure he plays exciting hockey, during a rebuild, but I somewhat question if it will ever be winning hockey. Most nights it seems like the average joe could do the same thing, everybody in and everybody back hard.

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08-27-2014, 10:59 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
The problem with that is that Hartley really doesn't have a system! Sure he plays exciting hockey, during a rebuild, but I somewhat question if it will ever be winning hockey. Most nights it seems like the average joe could do the same thing, everybody in and everybody back hard.
What? I'm pretty sure that an NHL coach like Hartley has a system. For a team like the Flames to keep more than half of their games within one goal, there has to be structure. A lot of the time people seem to associate the word "system" with a trap style. Is that what you mean?

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08-27-2014, 11:06 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
The problem with that is that Hartley really doesn't have a system! Sure he plays exciting hockey, during a rebuild, but I somewhat question if it will ever be winning hockey. Most nights it seems like the average joe could do the same thing, everybody in and everybody back hard.

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08-27-2014, 11:38 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
The problem with that is that Hartley really doesn't have a system! Sure he plays exciting hockey, during a rebuild, but I somewhat question if it will ever be winning hockey. Most nights it seems like the average joe could do the same thing, everybody in and everybody back hard.
I realize it's a big shift from the hyper-boring structure of Brent Sutter's coaching, but to say that Hartley doesn't have a system is pretty silly.

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08-27-2014, 11:43 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
The problem with that is that Hartley really doesn't have a system! Sure he plays exciting hockey, during a rebuild, but I somewhat question if it will ever be winning hockey. Most nights it seems like the average joe could do the same thing, everybody in and everybody back hard.
You don't see a system? A system doesn't have to be strict and structured like Butter's.

Hartley employs a high tempo system that emphasises relentless pressure (forecheck and back check). His system allows more mistakes because it gives him layers freedom to get involved in the play.

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08-29-2014, 01:57 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames rebuilder View Post
The problem with that is that Hartley really doesn't have a system! Sure he plays exciting hockey, during a rebuild, but I somewhat question if it will ever be winning hockey. Most nights it seems like the average joe could do the same thing, everybody in and everybody back hard.
Hartley absolutely does have a system. Let me explain Sutter's system first, and then explain what Hartley does.

Sutter - Defencemen: Allowed to pass up along the boards, not up the ice. Seems safe, but resulted in other teams easily anticipating the pass and either cutting it off, or already closing the gap on the forward receiving the pass. It is a very 'safe' play, but it did result in the Flames getting hemmed in their zone too often.

Hartley - Defencemen: Defencemen were allowed to make a pass up the center ice, but with good judgement. Make a mistake, and they would hear about it. This made much more sense (not only because of the anticipation factor, but also the point below about cycling).

Sutter - Forwards: The system revolved around dump and chase hockey for the most part, with the goal in trying to establish a cycle. Sutter felt that the team could not score on the rush. While I won't argue that the Flames were a great scoring team off the rush, I would say that they were a worse cycling team. They were one of the smallest teams in the league, and one of the oldest. Not something you would consider beneficial to cycling. I also think that the runs the Flames went on were in part to opening up the game a bit and allowing the forwards to play more creatively. Sutter's system was a bit stifling, IMO, to creativity. The center (or one of the wingers) had to come back towards the blueline in case of a turnover as well. People regurgitated the "This team can't score off the rush" over and over again, but they weren't scoring off the cycle either.

Hartley - Forwards: Set plays are seem more important. His team still cycles (every NHL team has to cycle), but players are given the 'green light' to be creative and encouraged to score off the rush. The trade-off? If a player makes a mistake and causes a turnover, all the forwards HAVE to skate hard back to help the defence. That is why Hartley preaches fitness and runs tough camps. He demands that forwards skate hard to help put pressure on the opposing team's forwards with backchecking and defensive assignments. This is part of why Baertschi was benched the first time at least - so he could try and read how the other wingers were handling the defensive assignments under different scenarios. It wasn't because Baertschi didn't want to play defence (he was fairly committed IMO), he just missed assignments at a rate Hartley was not fond of.

Both coaches made a point to 'activate' the defencemen on offence, but was vastly superior under Hartley as the Defencemen there was used as a 4th forward trailing the play (usually), and since the Flames were not forced to generate offence off the cycle, this means they held possession longer, had their heads up to make plays, and found defencemen more often entering the zone to attack. You can see this clearly by how much better Bouwmeester seemed to be under Hartley than Sutter. I thought Jokinen had horrible IQ when I saw him consistently cross the blue-line, with a chance to cut to the net, but instead shooting it into the corner. When I saw Backlund start doing the same with an equal or even better chance at driving to the net, that is when I figured out that this was part of the system revolving around cycling.

These are just the 'basics' that I saw over the last few seasons. People who understand and pay attention to systems more than me can tell you much more about the nuances with each system (and even correct me if I was wrong about anything I wrote above).

Hartley does NOT utilize "River Hockey" as a system. It may look like that, but there are defensive assignments and expectations, as well as expectations and assignments on the offensive zone.

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08-29-2014, 07:42 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinhart View Post
Hartley absolutely does have a system. Let me explain Sutter's system first, and then explain what Hartley does.

Sutter - Defencemen: Allowed to pass up along the boards, not up the ice. Seems safe, but resulted in other teams easily anticipating the pass and either cutting it off, or already closing the gap on the forward receiving the pass. It is a very 'safe' play, but it did result in the Flames getting hemmed in their zone too often.

Hartley - Defencemen: Defencemen were allowed to make a pass up the center ice, but with good judgement. Make a mistake, and they would hear about it. This made much more sense (not only because of the anticipation factor, but also the point below about cycling).

Sutter - Forwards: The system revolved around dump and chase hockey for the most part, with the goal in trying to establish a cycle. Sutter felt that the team could not score on the rush. While I won't argue that the Flames were a great scoring team off the rush, I would say that they were a worse cycling team. They were one of the smallest teams in the league, and one of the oldest. Not something you would consider beneficial to cycling. I also think that the runs the Flames went on were in part to opening up the game a bit and allowing the forwards to play more creatively. Sutter's system was a bit stifling, IMO, to creativity. The center (or one of the wingers) had to come back towards the blueline in case of a turnover as well. People regurgitated the "This team can't score off the rush" over and over again, but they weren't scoring off the cycle either.

Hartley - Forwards: Set plays are seem more important. His team still cycles (every NHL team has to cycle), but players are given the 'green light' to be creative and encouraged to score off the rush. The trade-off? If a player makes a mistake and causes a turnover, all the forwards HAVE to skate hard back to help the defence. That is why Hartley preaches fitness and runs tough camps. He demands that forwards skate hard to help put pressure on the opposing team's forwards with backchecking and defensive assignments. This is part of why Baertschi was benched the first time at least - so he could try and read how the other wingers were handling the defensive assignments under different scenarios. It wasn't because Baertschi didn't want to play defence (he was fairly committed IMO), he just missed assignments at a rate Hartley was not fond of.

Both coaches made a point to 'activate' the defencemen on offence, but was vastly superior under Hartley as the Defencemen there was used as a 4th forward trailing the play (usually), and since the Flames were not forced to generate offence off the cycle, this means they held possession longer, had their heads up to make plays, and found defencemen more often entering the zone to attack. You can see this clearly by how much better Bouwmeester seemed to be under Hartley than Sutter. I thought Jokinen had horrible IQ when I saw him consistently cross the blue-line, with a chance to cut to the net, but instead shooting it into the corner. When I saw Backlund start doing the same with an equal or even better chance at driving to the net, that is when I figured out that this was part of the system revolving around cycling.

These are just the 'basics' that I saw over the last few seasons. People who understand and pay attention to systems more than me can tell you much more about the nuances with each system (and even correct me if I was wrong about anything I wrote above).

Hartley does NOT utilize "River Hockey" as a system. It may look like that, but there are defensive assignments and expectations, as well as expectations and assignments on the offensive zone.
Excellent post. No Stanley Cup-winning coach is going to completely lack a concrete system.

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