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Toews and Kane re-signed (8 years, $10.5M per)

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Old
07-09-2014, 11:42 PM
  #1001
Ronk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone King View Post
Let me help you Kings homer.....zero. One player in the top 6 in 9 years of drafting. Keep churning out those studs.
They traded that talent to acquire the talent that is currently in the top 6. That top 6 is winning cups. Am I missing something?

Besides the Carter line has 2 LA drafted players.


Last edited by Ronk: 07-10-2014 at 12:00 AM.
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Old
07-09-2014, 11:44 PM
  #1002
Trottier
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Originally Posted by Tubby Tuke View Post
Well they've already carved up Chicago so they're 1/30th of the way there.
Keep dreaming and hoping. And let us know when your team wins a damn thing.

(But I bet your cap structure looks just super!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian54 View Post
What do people want Chicago to do, let them walk to UFA? Hahaha. Good joke.
This entire thread, summarized.

I wish one critic would suggest that Chicago or any other of the 29 teams would have walked away from the opportunity to sign these world class talents at these terms. Or better yet, that you would have let them walk away. (Or traded them away in that awesome make-believe deal for some young shiny...wait for it...prospects and picks!)

Go ahead. Just suggest it.


Last edited by Trottier: 07-09-2014 at 11:51 PM.
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Old
07-09-2014, 11:45 PM
  #1003
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Originally Posted by clydesdale line View Post
That same Pens team/model that has also won a cup? I'm sure Pens fans hate their situation. Oh.. and this Hawks team/model actually has a defense to speak of unlike those two if you wanna go there.
There are 2 extremes. The Oilers model on one side and the Detroit model on the other. Every team is somewhere in between.

Detroit model teams
New Jersey
Vancouver
San Jose

Oilers model teams
Chicago
Boston
LA
Pittsburgh

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07-09-2014, 11:58 PM
  #1004
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Keep dreaming and hoping. And let us know when your team wins a damn thing.

(But I bet your cap structure looks just super!)




This entire thread, summarized.

I wish one critic would suggest that Chicago or any other of the 29 teams would have walked away from the opportunity to sign these world class talents at these terms. Or better yet, that you would have let them walk away. (Or traded them away in that awesome make-believe deal for some young shiny...wait for it...prospects and picks!)

Go ahead. Just suggest it.
Amazing actually. We have infinite possibilities if our owner can find $20 in one of his suits - you have to ship out people.

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07-10-2014, 12:00 AM
  #1005
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Originally Posted by HC Davos View Post
There are 2 extremes. The Oilers model on one side and the Detroit model on the other. Every team is somewhere in between.

Detroit model teams
New Jersey
Vancouver
San Jose

Oilers model teams
Chicago
Boston
LA
Pittsburgh
How is Boston an "Oilers model"? I would argue they are the opposite, much more like Detroit. They had one top-5 pick they got by having a poor season (Kessel - 5th overall 2006). They traded him for the only other 2 highish picks they have had lately (Seguin and Hamilton). They had one bust pick at 8th overall (Hamill). Other than that, they have acquired every player with good drafting (all outside the first round), UFA signings (Chara, Savard) and lots of good trades.

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07-10-2014, 12:02 AM
  #1006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone King View Post
Let me help you Kings homer.....zero. One player in the top 6 in 9 years of drafting. Keep churning out those studs.
Were you asleep during the Kings most current run to the Cup? Tyler Toffoli and Tanner Pearson flanked Carter on the 2nd line. They were the difference in the Chicago series and they are both Kings drafts picks 2010 and 2012.

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07-10-2014, 12:11 AM
  #1007
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Originally Posted by Tubby Tuke View Post
Amazing actually. We have infinite possibilities if our owner can find $20 in one of his suits - you have to ship out people.
"I" don't have to ship out anyone, I'm a neither Hawks fan, owner, GM or apologist. Just an NHL fan who can see things objectively.

As for your team, whoever that may be: "if" is the drug of choice for those who never actually accomplish anything. And I bet that amazing cap space is going to score a lot of goals for you this season and lead the way to the playoffs. (About as likely as MLB returning to Montreal.)

But keep hoping/dreaming for the Hawks demise.

Me? I'm still waiting for the Hawks doomsayers from the summer of 2010 to admit how naively wrong they were.

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07-10-2014, 12:12 AM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by HC Davos View Post
What the Hawks did is the same thing Nashville did with Weber and Rinne. Or what the Pens did with Crosby and Malkin. Both of those teams suffered because of monster deals. The Hawks will suffer the same fate.
Exactly!

The Nashville Predators have missed the Stanley Cup Playoffs for the last two seasons.

The 2015-16 Chicago Blackhawks will be nothing more than a lottery team with a liquidation sale in the summer of 2015.

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07-10-2014, 12:33 AM
  #1009
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Keep dreaming and hoping. And let us know when your team wins a damn thing.

(But I bet your cap structure looks just super!)



This entire thread, summarized.

I wish one critic would suggest that Chicago or any other of the 29 teams would have walked away from the opportunity to sign these world class talents at these terms. Or better yet, that you would have let them walk away. (Or traded them away in that awesome make-believe deal for some young shiny...wait for it...prospects and picks!)

Go ahead. Just suggest it.
Typically teams pay less to retain their own talents. Hence the concept of the free agency premium.

The people rationalizing this by saying the cap will go up are out to lunch. You know what's going to counter balance that? These players getting older. They'll be 33-34 by the time these contracts are over. They've also been playing at a top level for 4-6 years now. How many players maintain that level through 12-14 years?

These contracts are going to severely hamper the success of the team in the future. That's a fact.

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07-10-2014, 12:37 AM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by Tone King View Post
What 'viotrol'? Who here knows what Kopy will take? HF Kings fans? Riiiiiiiiiight. That is wishful thinking. I will be right here next year when there is a 1 in front of that first # on the cap hit. I LOL all you kings fans thinking he will take less because he is supposedly a 'team player' and have stated such in the press. I could pull over a hundred of those on Kane and Toews as well. And they took a friendly one on their last deal like Kopy ( who has the same agent). Seems like the vitriol is from Kings fans who hope that Kopy will take a solid for the team. Just pray Lombo is good drafter too because you will also need it like every other team in the league. But.....Hawks have the 4th rated minor system and the Kings 21st. I would say the Hawks prepared well for what the future brings. Kings.....not so much.
The farm system that placed two rookie wingers this postseason on a line with Carter that torched the Hawks? Okay.

Look, this is not a pissing contest between the Kings and Hawks. I have nothing but respect for your team. I think these signings are absolutely fine and will NOT hurt the Hawks, short or long term.

You're also ignoring pretty much everything I said about Kopitar's next contract, the age it will take him to, and what can be drawn from that information. Don't be a child. You posted a snide, immature comment about "lol just wait til Gabby gets injured!!!11" and I called you on the vitriol.

By the way, Gaborik has played nearly the same amount of games as the Hawks own oft injured, signed-until-eternity European winger over the last several years.

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Old
07-10-2014, 12:45 AM
  #1011
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I'm curious whether the NHLPA encouraged Kane and Toews to push for a record AAV to become a standard for the new CBA. Although Ovechkin had the highest cap hit, I always felt that Crosby had inadvertently set a league wide player salary cap when he signed for 8.7 a few years back ("you think you deserve more than the best player in the world?"). And unlike Crosby's 8.7 being the previous upper limit, I can see the $ of the next few franchise player contracts pushing pass Kane/Toews 10.5 (I'm looking at you Stamkos and Kopitar)... because as good and accomplished as Kane/Toews are, other players can reasonably make the argument that they are better and deserve more.

(I know Malkin's 9.5 was also negotiated under the new CBA, but because he still made less than Ovi it didn't reset the market)

(Ultimately the winner today was Pat Brisson... who apparently represents everyone)

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Old
07-10-2014, 12:47 AM
  #1012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone King View Post
Other than Kopitar.....who in the top 6 have been drafted by the Kings?
Toffoli, Pearson, and Brown.

I think Kane is a very skilled player and a joy to watch, but I don't think it was right giving a winger the same amount.

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Old
07-10-2014, 12:58 AM
  #1013
Trottier
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Typically teams pay less to retain their own talents. Hence the concept of the free agency premium.
What is "less"? How can anyone state what less is in this or any other situation unless you are in negotiations? Those are assumptions presented as fact.

So, say it! You would have told Toews and Kane to take a walk. Right?

Quote:
The people rationalizing this by saying the cap will go up are out to lunch.
The cap has been going up since the cap was put in place a decade ago. So, while no guarantees it will continue to increase or at any specific rate, it surely is not a radical hunch. And it should be noted that around here, the baseless "the cap is not going to keep increasing!" cry has been incorrectly shouted for the entirety of the last decade.

Quote:
You know what's going to counter balance that? These players getting older. They'll be 33-34 by the time these contracts are over. They've also been playing at a top level for 4-6 years now. How many players maintain that level through 12-14 years?
Indeed, they are in their mid-20s! The horror! Sorry, when the insufferable agesim line kicks in, and the assumptions that go with it, I bow out.

Quote:
These contracts are going to severely hamper the success of the team in the future. That's a fact.
It's not a fact. It is your opinion, a popular one, to which you are fully entitled. But one needs to be able to differentiate between fact and opinion.

Anyway, I respect your opinion, we just disagree.

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Old
07-10-2014, 01:08 AM
  #1014
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Originally Posted by flaneur View Post
I'm curious whether the NHLPA encouraged Kane and Toews to push for a record AAV to become a standard for the new CBA. Although Ovechkin had the highest cap hit, I always felt that Crosby had inadvertently set a league wide player salary cap when he signed for 8.7 a few years back ("you think you deserve more than the best player in the world?"). And unlike Crosby's 8.7 being the previous upper limit, I can see the $ of the next few franchise player contracts pushing pass Kane/Toews 10.5 (I'm looking at you Stamkos and Kopitar)... because as good and accomplished as Kane/Toews are, other players can reasonably make the argument that they are better and deserve more.

(I know Malkin's 9.5 was also negotiated under the new CBA, but because he still made less than Ovi it didn't reset the market)

(Ultimately the winner today was Pat Brisson... who apparently represents everyone)
13 NHL players will take home more than $8.7 million in actual money next year.

1. Weber, Shea D NSH 28 2012 2026 14 $14,000,000
2. Crosby, Sidney F PIT 26 2013 2025 12 $12,000,000
3. Parise, Zach F MIN 29 2012 2025 13 $11,000,000
4. Suter, Ryan D MIN 29 2012 2025 13 $11,000,000
5. Lundqvist, H. G NYR 32 2014 2021 7 $11,000,000
6. Ovechkin, Alex F WAS 28 2008 2021 13 $10,000,000
7. Datsyuk, Pavel F DET 35 2014 2017 3 $10,000,000
8. Giroux, Claude F PHI 26 2014 2022 8 $10,000,000
9. Kessel, Phil F TOR 26 2014 2022 8 $10,000,000
10. Malkin, Evgeni F PIT 27 2014 2022 8 $9,500,000
11. Staal, Eric F CAR 29 2009 2016 7 $9,250,000
12. Perry, Corey F ANA 29 2013 2021 8 $9,000,000
13. Getzlaf, Ryan F ANA 29 2013 2021 8 $8,750,000

The NHLPA likely wanted Toews/Kane to push for as much as possible (and Toews certainly was very outspoken on behalf of the NHLPA during the lockout so why everyone assumes he would take less but Kane wouldn't is baffling to me), but the Toews/Kane cap hits being what they are is more a result of them coming at a time that the CBA dictated the cap hits would be this large because the terms were limited to 8 years. Remember... Toews + Kane = $168 million in 2 players. Parise + Suter = $196 million in 2 players.

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Old
07-10-2014, 01:20 AM
  #1015
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Originally Posted by KevinBXA View Post
I'll put it this way: would you rather have 4 David Clarksons or Toews and Kane?
I laughed

Hard

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Old
07-10-2014, 01:26 AM
  #1016
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