And by top end forward prospect you mean middling forward prospect with a 3rd line ceiling.
He's as good a D prospect as Rielly, yes.
?
And to me that is one very good player, and a second maybe very good player.
traded for one for sure great player.
And the B's are already having contract problems with Seguin, like they seem to do with all their good young players. We'll see how that turns out - usually they end up trading them.
My bad, where I said points I meant goals.
As to the rest I think it is a case of blue tinted glasses but whatever. You have two years to get Kessel to remain a Leaf by making your Leafs a legitimate contender or it will all have been for nothing which is what I see happening and it is because instead of building a core you dealt it for a few years of having ONE great young player on your team.
Now tell me how I hate the Leafs or think that Kessel sucks or whatever else it is that isn't true.
1) Seguin is already as good or better than Kessel
2) Hamilton will be as good or better than Kessel
3) Jared Knight is a "top-end prospect"
4) John Gibson was a part of this trade
is a product of blue-tinted glasses?
I think it's pretty easy to see that the opposite is true.
and how many of them finished 6th in league scoring?
All of them finished 6th or better.
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I don't think pointing out that not only was he the 6th highest scorer in the league last year, but that he was also the 2nd youngest in the top-10 and 4th youngest in the top-25, is pointless, myself.
1) Seguin is already as good or better than Kessel
2) Hamilton will be as good or better than Kessel
3) Jared Knight is a "top-end prospect"
4) John Gibson was a part of this trade
is a product of blue-tinted glasses?
I think it's pretty easy to see that the opposite is true.
I have never asserted said hinted at or anything that Seguin is currently as good as Kessel so keep trying to put words in my mouth and I will keep going back to what I have actually written.
Hamilton as I actually wrote has the potential to be a top pairing D man.
Jared Knight has the potential as well to be a high end prospect, where he will flesh out I will concede isn't known yet but he isn't a 3rd line top potential" type just yet either. NHL caliber talent no doubt.
The 2nd round pick that you dealt as part of this deal if I remember right. I recall the deal being two firsts and two seconds, one each in 10 and 11. In mentioning Gibson I was merely saying that there were and would have been high end goalie prospects available at the position you would have picked at had you retained the pick.
Finally it isn't easy at all to see that the opposite is true but you continue to keep trying to spin my positions any way you like. It has become sort of fun to read at this point as they aren't really close to what I have actually written.
Not trying to deminish Seguin but the reality is he didn't have much to do with Boston winning the Cup, compared to J. Staal and E. Staal when they won for Pittsburgh and Carolina.
What? Seguin had a HUGE playoff!!!
You don't know what you are talking about
Seguin >>>> Kessel
Not to mention all the other pieces Boston got.
Carolina has not made the Playoffs since 2009 and gave up a top 10 pick for Staal, so in my opinion it's almost the same situation like the Leafs when they made the Kessel trade.
Not the same situation at all.
Toronto was a lottery team before AND after the Kessel trade.
Carolina was not a lottery team before and they are DEFINITELY not after the trade.
well I know Zhamnov certainly did not come anywhere close to that, though Robby Brown did manage to pull off the feat playing on Mario's wing one year.
Pierre Larouche had an 800+ gm career with career PPG+ production and a few cups. Not sure why you don't like him. Rogers, Young, Chouinard, and Pederson all had solid careers as well, having near PPG careers....though a number of them had their careers shortened by injury issues.
Would have been nice if you could have found any examples more recent than 35+ago, though, when the historical records are a little less murky, and a little more useful as comparisons to the current NHL.
The only guy you found from less than 35yrs ago was a guy who played alongside the greatest offensive player of all time....and even that was 25yrs ago.
I have never asserted said hinted at or anything that Seguin is currently as good as Kessel so keep trying to put words in my mouth and I will keep going back to what I have actually written.
Hamilton as I actually wrote has the potential to be a top pairing D man.
So they have the potential of being top players, and Kessel is a top player.
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Jared Knight has the potential as well to be a high end prospect, where he will flesh out I will concede isn't known yet but he isn't a 3rd line top potential" type just yet either. NHL caliber talent no doubt.
Knight is just a middling decent prospect with a shot, but nowhere near a guarantee, of being a decent NHLer.
Quote:
The 2nd round pick that you dealt as part of this deal if I remember right. I recall the deal being two firsts and two seconds, one each in 10 and 11. In mentioning Gibson I was merely saying that there were and would have been high end goalie prospects available at the position you would have picked at had you retained the pick.
nope.
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Finally it isn't easy at all to see that the opposite is true but you continue to keep trying to spin my positions any way you like. It has become sort of fun to read at this point as they aren't really close to what I have actually written.
Ga head.
I think I've come closer to what you've actually written than you have, to be honest.
Seguin has had 2 good playoff periods in his career and that's it.
So he scored 10 points in two periods?
Seguin at 18 played in 13 playoff games and had 3 goals and 4 assists in a limited role and then at 19 he played in 7 games and had 2 goals and 1 assist all the while remaining a plus player (+5 in 10 and +3 in 11).
I don't understand how you can make this claim based on anything other than opinion.
Seguin at 18 played in 13 playoff games and had 3 goals and 4 assists in a limited role and then at 19 he played in 7 games and had 2 goals and 1 assist all the while remaining a plus player (+5 in 10 and +3 in 11).
I don't understand how you can make this claim based on anything other than opinion.
Kessel in his first two playoffs scored 9gls and 15pts in 15 playoff games (49gl/82pt pace).
Seguin in his first two playoffs scored 5gls and 10pts in 20 playoff games (21gl/42pt pace).....he scored 3gls/6pts in back to back games, and 2gls/4pts in the other 18gms.
So they have the potential of being top players, and Kessel is a top player.
Knight is just a middling decent prospect with a shot, but nowhere near a guarantee, of being a decent NHLer.
nope.
I think I've come closer to what you've actually written than you have, to be honest.
I think that you couldn't have been farther away from the truth if you had tried to be honest with you.
You have zero foundation/core and that is why adding your one star player in Kessel at this time was a terrible idea.
If you can't see the value in having a core in place before you go out and get that one player who can push you over the top, what I have been arguing all along by the way and that is a perfect truth then I can't make you see the light.
I will say that again, how do you expect to keep Kessel when you still aren't any good or don't have any core of solid young players in two seasons? How do you plan on keeping DionP? Don't you think that these two guys will bolt for a chance to be on a team with a legitimate shot at the cup when the time comes?
Do you honestly believe that Kessel will stay on the Leafs when he is the only player capable of making an honest to goodness difference? Of course not, it never works that way and it won't here.
You have one good forward in Kessel and a one #2 Dman and then like I have said over and over after that you don't have much or certainly not enough to get you close to cup. When Kessel leaves you will have waisted the past several years so that you can enjoy having ONE star player where had you waited and built your core and then added a player like Kessel it would have put you in an actual position to become a team that has a shot to do something other than miss the playoffs.
I mean the Leafs haven't done much of anything since the league expanded back in 67. Doesn't that make you want more? I guess those blue tinted glasses must also come with a prescription of braincandy or something because I wouldn't be able to take it.
Kessel in his first two playoffs scored 9gls and 15pts in 15 playoff games (49gl/82pt pace).
Seguin in his first two playoffs scored 5gls and 10pts in 20 playoff games (21gl/42pt pace).....he scored 3gls/6pts in back to back games, and 2gls/4pts in the other 18gms.
How old was Kessel when he did this (honestly don't know) and also when was the last time he was even in a playoff game? Exactly.
I am not saying that Seguin is a player who as a center that is being made to play as a wing in order to get ANY ice time is going to score as much as Kessel but then I never said that he would or that he should or had, that is just you trying to spin things in a different direction again.
Also I find it funny that you are trying to say that stats are the only way of determining the value of a player, especially in this situation.
First year point production for the two was very similar. In both of their second seasons Seguin put up much better numbers than Kessel and was a year younger. Also Kessel was on the Bruins for both of those first two seasons in question.
and Kessel was playing on a line with Marc Savard then.
Do share?
Friendly ManiBROba
