If Avs don't send down one of Barrie/Elliott asap, they are idiots. There is no reason to carry eight defenders with Barrie and Elliott as #7-8. LEM are fighting for a playoff spot and while it's not the NHL, it is still meaningful hockey.
I am not even convinced that Sacco will use Hunwick ahead of Elliott. When all 7 D have been available, Elliott plays ahead of Hunwick. Barrie will go down for sure, but it's highly possible Elliott still plays and Hunwick is scratched. The mind of Sacco is a crazy place.
He's clearly one of Colorado's top four defensemen, and averages 2:52 on the PK (second on the team). By comparison, Erik Johnson averages 1:41.
To add to that PK time...
154 hits (2nd on team)
116 blocked shots (1st on team)
18 giveaways (5th lowest amongst our D with Johnson leading at 40, and Elliott has 14 in 39 games to ROB's 18 in 61 games)
Yes, he's awkward with the puck on his stick, but is an essential player for us to have a decent defensive effort.
Yes, he's a bottom pairing defenseman whose best asset is his great PK ability. No disagreements there.
But a top-4 defenseman on the Avalanche who have 13 games left to squeeze into a playoff spot.
Using your specious reasoning, the Avalanche should scratch Jay McClement for Mike Connolly because McClement is a fourth line center whose best asset is his great PK ability.
But a top-4 defenseman on the Avalanche who have 13 games left to squeeze into a playoff spot.
Using your specious reasoning, the Avalanche should scratch Jay McClement for Mike Connolly because McClement is a fourth line center whose best asset is his great PK ability.
Specious reasoning for what? O'Byrne is nothing special. I don't particularly want Barrie or Elliott over O'Byrne, in fact I have found it extremely stupid that they even called up and persisted with Elliott when he wasn't ready despite the supposed goal of gunning for it this season -- as evidenced by the terrible Varlamov trade. But that doesn't mean O'Byrne isn't overrated. He's a #5 or #6 defenseman who provides great PK ability. That's all. McClement is a third line center and your comparison is fairly poor given relative upsides and McClement's ability to contribute on both ends at even strength (more so defensively, of course).
Specious reasoning for what? O'Byrne is nothing special. I don't particularly want Barrie or Elliott over O'Byrne, in fact I have found it extremely stupid that they even called up and persisted with Elliott when he wasn't ready despite the supposed goal of gunning for it this season -- as evidenced by the terrible Varlamov trade. But that doesn't mean O'Byrne isn't overrated. He's a #5 or #6 defenseman who provides great PK ability. That's all. McClement is a third line center and your comparison is fairly poor given relative upsides and McClement's ability to contribute on both ends at even strength (more so defensively, of course).
You keep throwing a label on O'Byrne as a way of suggesting he's insignificant. Why evaluate him as a player rather than what he means to the Avalanche team?
My comparison is a perfect example of how I can devalue someone using trivial facts. Jay McClement is indeed the Avalanche's fourth line center. He played less than 12 minutes last game, and has scored only three points in his past 15 games. Thus, it would be easy to make a comment similar to the one you made -- "Why are some of you talking about O'Byrne? Who honestly gives a ****?" -- and still be able to defend it with facts.
You keep throwing a label on O'Byrne as a way of suggesting he's insignificant. Why evaluate him as a player rather than what he means to the Avalanche team?
My comparison is a perfect example of how I can devalue someone using trivial facts.
[...]
Thus, it would be easy to make a comment similar to the one you made -- "Why are some of you talking about O'Byrne? Who honestly gives a ****?" -- and still be able to defend it with facts.
You did a spectacular job. Pat yourself on the back. You give a ****, you should be proud.
O'Byrne has played top-4 minutes and a top-4 role for most of the time he's been here. He also played a top-2 role in Liles' final season here. He may or may not be an ideal top-4 guy, but let's not kid ourselves, he's not just any ol' bottom pairing defenseman.
O'Byrne has played top-4 minutes and a top-4 role for most of the time he's been here. He also played a top-2 role in Liles' final season here. He may or may not be an ideal top-4 guy, but let's not kid ourselves, he's not just any ol' bottom pairing defenseman.
The PK unit just doesnt look cohesive as a unit without him. I know they did a great job last night but im much more comfortable with ROB on the PK then just about anyone else including Johnson.
Very true. We really need to get some help to defense. It's just terrible.
The more likely solution is to just wait 1-2-3 years as Barrie, Elliott, and Siemens mature and round out the D...and in the mean time stick with what the Avs have and try to find a dimond in the rough somewhere via ufa or trade.
I would love nothing more than to see the Avs add a guy like Suter or Weber over the summer, but the fact is that it is very unlikely either will come to Denver, be it because of the money, effort by management, or desire by the player.
Beyond that there are some tier 2 options, but that leaves you overpaying for guys like Hejda, who realistically are just not that much better than what the Avs have.
Point being, the best thing for the club in the long run is to stick with the guys they have for another year or two while the youth in the system gets ready. It sucks, but its the only real solution available for the Avs.
And for the record, I don't think the Avs D is terrible. Hell, I would even go so far as to say its the best all around D the Avs have had in many, many years. Cup contender, no, playoff contender, yes.
What was your point? My apologies if I didn't recognize one. Barrie is better than Elliott? Great. O'Byrne is better than both, and should have been playing.
IDK, he's all over the map, and quite frankly my head hurts trying to figure out what he is getting at.
In one post he says he doesn't understand why we are talking about O'Byrne, and that he doesn't give a ****, but then goes on to author several posts staunchly indicating that he cares a lot because he vehemently expresses a dislike for O'Byrne and the fact that he gets top 4 minutes.
He also indicates that the since the Avs are playing for the future, because they called up Elliott in the first place, that O'Byrne is "absolutely irrelevant" and should sit for Barrie because Elliott is shot. Only to contradict himself in the next post, using the "terrible" Varlamov trade as evidence that the Avs are "gunning for it", and that he doesn't particularly want Elliott or Barrie over ROB, and finds it extremely stupid that they're even called up because they aren't ready for the NHL.
Basically the only thing I got out of all of it was that ROB is overrated and a bottom pairing defenseman.
IDK, he's all over the map, and quite frankly my head hurts trying to figure out what he is getting at.
Your head probably hurts due to external factors. Maybe you should stop using escapism for all of your life problems.
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Originally Posted by Bill Peckerskull
In one post he says he doesn't understand why we are talking about O'Byrne, and that he doesn't give a ****, but then goes on to author several posts staunchly indicating that he cares a lot because he vehemently expresses a dislike for O'Byrne and the fact that he gets top 4 minutes.
I made several posts because I found the replies amusing, but that doesn't actually change my opinion of O'Byrne. O'Byrne shouldn't be getting top 4 minutes, he is a bottom pairing defenseman. He is good on the PK. Avalanche are not making the playoffs in part of the state of said blue line. This is not complicated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Peckerskull
He also indicates that the since the Avs are playing for the future, because they called up Elliott in the first place, that O'Byrne is "absolutely irrelevant" and should sit for Barrie because Elliott is shot.
You are not very bright. O'Byrne is absolutely irrelevant to the argument that Elliott should not be in for last game because Barrie was always an option, so even if one subscribes to the "slowly work O'Byrne back into games via extended practices", there is no justification for Elliott being on the ice. If you take Sacco's supposed predilection for providing an offensive spark, then O'Byrne is obviously irrelevant due to his inability to handle the puck; Elliott is irrelevant for that role because currently he is own enemy with his inability to do anything at this level either because of his lack of confidence and preparedness compared to Barrie (and this is even considering the flaws Barrie displayed in limited sample size).
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Originally Posted by Bill Peckerskull
Only to contradict himself in the next post, using the "terrible" Varlamov trade as evidence that the Avs are "gunning for it"
No contradiction as stated above.
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Originally Posted by Bill Peckerskull
and that he doesn't particularly want Elliott or Barrie over ROB, and finds it extremely stupid that they're even called up because they aren't ready for the NHL.
And still no contradiction. Good job. Hunwick has been absolutely misused this season in the parameters of aiming for playoffs. You do not give rookie defensemen like Elliott a lot of ice time if you want to make the playoffs. I'm not being contradictory, the Avalanche organization is by tweening between business needs of playoff revenue but also trying to get the "future" of this blue line a lot of exposure at the NHL level to make progress for later years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Peckerskull
Basically the only thing I got out of all of it was that ROB is overrated and a bottom pairing defenseman.
Good, he is both. That should be extremely obvious even before reading any of my posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Peckerskull
Now, excuse me while I go find the Tylenol....
No, I won't excuse you because it's irrelevant to the conversation. Suck it up.
