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Free Agency Episode 2 - The Attack Of The Plugs

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07-15-2013, 06:41 PM
  #976
Ridley Simon
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
the drumbeat just gets tiring. getting ribeiro was stupid and not keeping him equally as stupid. choosing not to get him would have been criticized as happens often here as not having any interest or boldness to do the things required to win.

McPhee is a bad general manager now matter what happens. he wont make bold trades because he doesn't have the balls to make a move. he does make moves and he is roundly ripped for doing it. when he does something that just cant be criticized, the player involved gets ripped for agreeing to it.

ive said this before. if McPhee resigned his job, somebody here would complain that he was a coward for choosing resignation when suicide was the honorable option.
Not this guy. I'd be happy as possible!

And Tex...yuo're not getting it. George has no follow through, and does not have a PLAN. He changes his MO to winning each and every year, seemingly based on the previous years Cup winner. Its laughable, and obvious. Ted just doesnt give a crap.

The Ribeiro trade (and the Hannan trade, the Arnott trade, the Huet trade, the Hamrlik signing, the Cooke trade, the Belanger trade, etc etc etc) are all the same. He tries it, doesnt like it, and moves away from it. He doesn't follow through.

The premise is that if you value the player, and you think tehy are a piece to the puzzle, why oh why (ROUTINELY) does he get them for a cup of coffee and then let them walk?

Its mind boggling!

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07-15-2013, 06:45 PM
  #977
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George has given up IMO. He is just riding out the string now. What's he make, 3 million $ per for this? It's great work if you can get it.

Ted is the problem.

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07-15-2013, 06:48 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
So Shero should get fired for bringing aboard Iginla, Murray, Morrow etc right? They didn't pan out and none are being brought back. After all the total cost of these guys was WAY more than what we paid to get Ribs.

Should Chiarelli get fired for Jagr? He was a high profile acquisition that scored exactly zero goals in the playoffs. 2 prospects and a 2nd (conditional 1st that I think it maybe now)

These are all high profile guys that just didn't pan out for one reason or another. Just 2 examples and there are many more. You can't possibly know for sure how exactly the player will fit in the dynamic of your team prior to getting him! If good GMs knew that they would never make mistakes at all. Every trade would be perfect for them.
If their track record was also a grand total of 3 series win in the last 14 years? Then yes. They should get fired.

However, each of those GM's names is on that shiney little thing known as the Stanley Cup.

You are using bad examples again, Bob. Apples and Oranges.

Fire George!!

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07-15-2013, 06:54 PM
  #979
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Huh?

The initial assertion was that the Ribs trade was a mistake and the a good GM should have forseen that it would be. I disagree with this and brought up Chiarelli and Shero as recent examples of good GMs making the same type of "mistake" if you can even call it that.

Have Shero and Chiarelli, due to winning a cup, built enough equity and street cred to overshadow mistakes? Sure you can argue that and I'd have no problem with it.

But to say that a GM worth his salt should forsee the exact fit of player X prior to his acquisition then I disagree with that.

You have taken everything completely out of context as my argument was geared against other posters who brought that up.

I don't think letting Ribs go was a mistake. I think acquiring him was a good gamble at the time and its not like he flopped here. The contract he got combined with his fit on the team made it easy to pass upon.

I think good GMs make gambles such as these all the time that don't always work out. I don't think that, in order to be a good GM, you have to see into the future with percision and never make "bad" trades in hindsight.
Yes, were that the only example? Or maybe one of a handful? Its one of many. George sucks as a winner. He doesnt have what it takes.

He never will. And yes, after 15 years running a franchise (which is like a millenium on Pro Sports), I can safely say that.

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07-15-2013, 06:55 PM
  #980
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rids, its not mind boggling. most of those were pure rentals. but...I bet McPhee would have kept hannan on a one year one million dollar deal. hannan thought he could do better. you seriously think McPhee should have signed that huet contract? come on.
cooke was a rental. he signed hamrlik. that one doesn't fit the others that walked. whats your beef there? that he signed him or that he didn't keep him when his coach refused to use him?

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07-15-2013, 06:56 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post

Stop defending George. I get that he is probably the only Caps GM you have ever known, but the flaws in his team building are well known, his inability to make a winner is obvious.
This is where I think you are wrong....or at least not accurate. The Caps have been a winning team....not a championship team. I really do think there is a difference....The idea that he "sucks" and is an "idiot" that some people hold, to me, is more based off of personal dislike for whatever reason.

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McPhee's Caps are the by product of one lucky Ping Pong ball (Ovechkin). His teams have won THREE playoff series in 14 years. That is absurd.
Who cares about lucky/unlucky ping pong balls? Other than they had one bounce their way and havent capitalized on it yet, I dont see why it matters. What matters is the 3 series wins.....thats staggering and enough on its own

It always seems to be something where another year seems obvious.

To me this should be a big year for this regime, again. I dont think they are as bad as some seem to think.....ive seen words like "disaster" and it just makes me laugh. I'm not sure what to expect to be honest

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07-15-2013, 07:12 PM
  #982
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I think that describes me as well.....but whether its excuses or not, change may be whats in order.

Is it me or does 19 seem to be flying under the radar in terms of shouldering responsibility? The Montreal series was a long time ago, and they lost anyway. You would be hard pressed to find a bigger fan of 19 but he needs to be a difference maker when it counts. I've seen MoJo catch heat but I dont think 19 has been anything special the last few springs....and he absolutely needs to be. I never thought I would think this but, not knowing the situation, I would at least keep an open mind if teams were interested.....He needs to be a top player, better than he has been recently, when it counts.
You are right. Backs has gotten a few comments, but nothing like the other whipping boys around here (52?).

Its time for him to have a huge season. If he doesnt, the team is in deep trouble.

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07-15-2013, 07:20 PM
  #983
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
rids, its not mind boggling. most of those were pure rentals. but...I bet McPhee would have kept hannan on a one year one million dollar deal. hannan thought he could do better. you seriously think McPhee should have signed that huet contract? come on.
cooke was a rental. he signed hamrlik. that one doesn't fit the others that walked. whats your beef there? that he signed him or that he didn't keep him when his coach refused to use him?
My beef with Hamrlik (and its a beef mainly as its another bad move on top of many), is that you dont sign an old old old d-man for that many years. Many people sit here and profess their admiration for George's stingeness towards Ribeiro, etc. Yet when he does spend money, he does it pretty poorly (Hamrlik, Ward, Schultz, Erskine, Neuvirth, Chimera, Laich, etc etc are all paid a LOT for what they bring to the table, as invididuals, and as collections).

He does have the occasional good signing. Holtby. Alzner. Ovechkin (at the time), Backstrom (again, at the time).

Signings like Green, Carlson, Brouwer...not sure yet.

Its not his strong suit.

Neither is trading for a player and keeping him. Least, not since the great Jagr "purge"

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07-15-2013, 07:31 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Mothra View Post
This is where I think you are wrong....or at least not accurate. The Caps have been a winning team....not a championship team. I really do think there is a difference....The idea that he "sucks" and is an "idiot" that some people hold, to me, is more based off of personal dislike for whatever reason.



Who cares about lucky/unlucky ping pong balls? Other than they had one bounce their way and havent capitalized on it yet, I dont see why it matters. What matters is the 3 series wins.....thats staggering and enough on its own

It always seems to be something where another year seems obvious.

To me this should be a big year for this regime, again. I dont think they are as bad as some seem to think.....ive seen words like "disaster" and it just makes me laugh. I'm not sure what to expect to be honest
Sorry, you are correct. I meant "Cup" winner, but I did not put that. Its been my premise for (forever??) with George, but I didnt specifically state it.

He's not an idiot. I have stated that for a rebuilding franchise, he is gold, and I was staunchly in George's corner the first 12 or so years he was here (thats laughable!!) Would be terrific at it, and teams in that situation would be lucky to have him.

But that is his ceiling. As someone mentioned earlier, re: Hanlon...George is the same. Was good at getting the team to a certain point, but thats his ceiling.

I will tell you this, with the utmost certainty:

If George was his own boss, or his actual boss held George to the standards George holds his coaches too? George would have been fired.

No way that George McPhee the boss lets George McPhee the employee off with so many chances. George McPhee the employee is the GM of the Caps *only* because Ted Leonsis is so soft as an owner (soft, inexperienced, scared, stupid....whatever adjective you want to use that promotes his allowances of failure).

If you can't admit that George the boss would have fired George the employee by now, then you are biased (the other direction that I am wrongly accused of).

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Old
07-15-2013, 07:36 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
My beef with Hamrlik (and its a beef mainly as its another bad move on top of many), is that you dont sign an old old old d-man for that many years.
I agree. Two entire years for a 37-year old player? #smh #McPhailure

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07-15-2013, 07:42 PM
  #986
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rids, ward has been as advertised and earns his check. he was brought in for the playoffs and has been among the caps best and most clutch playoff players. he was tied for 1st in scoring v the rangers. outscored ovechkin. he was 5th in scoring in limited time the season before and scored the biggest goal of those playoffs.

he's an average player that for four playoffs in a row has been far above average.

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07-15-2013, 07:47 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
If George was his own boss, or his actual boss held George to the standards George holds his coaches too? George would have been fired.
false. these coaches have been fired when the team stopped playing for them. at least starting with Cassidy. i don't recall the dynamics of Wilson's departure.

anyone watching the hanlon team and then the boudreau team and suggesting changing coaches was a bad move, well, i don't know what to say. same with boudreau.

the team has not quit on McPhee.

this much i am confident of. when McPhee is fired or resigns those that hate McPhee will hate the replacement more.

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07-15-2013, 07:47 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
I agree. Two entire years for a 37-year old player? #smh #McPhailure
considering he was benched by 2 different coaches, both years?

Yeah.

But keep picking at the zits on my arguments. One point out of 100! Grab the torches and pitchforks, storm my castle! LOL

Dont actually come up with a substantive reason as to why George should still be here. You are one of the ones that think 3 series wins in 14 years is good, right? Nothing wrong with that--

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07-15-2013, 07:56 PM
  #989
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Ah, the usual damage control. Never argue player moves with fans of management. The risks are always worth it, and the non-moves are always prudent. Can't win em all, only one team wins the Cup, yadda yadda yadda.

Excuses and spin.

Doesn't the fact that these same discussions happen every year for DECADES reveal anything about the results?

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07-15-2013, 07:57 PM
  #990
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Rid-Si,

I don't understand it fully but I don't think the pro-Ted n' George group come at it the way you do. They don't view winning the Stanley Cup as the top value or the essential purpose. What do they want? It beats me.

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07-15-2013, 07:58 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
considering he was benched by 2 different coaches, both years?

Yeah.

But keep picking at the zits on my arguments. One point out of 100! Grab the torches and pitchforks, storm my castle! LOL

Dont actually come up with a substantive reason as to why George should still be here. You are one of the ones that think 3 series wins in 14 years is good, right? Nothing wrong with that--
You said yourself your opposition to the Hamrlik signing wasn't Hamrlik himself but its conflict with a fundamental principle of how you believe GMs should operate:
Quote:
My beef with Hamrlik ... is that you dont sign an old old old d-man for that many years.
I was simply stating my agreement with that sound principle. Any non-phailure of a GM knows you don't sign ancient 37-year olds to almost interminable two-year contracts.

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07-15-2013, 07:59 PM
  #992
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
rids, ward has been as advertised and earns his check. he was brought in for the playoffs and has been among the caps best and most clutch playoff players. he was tied for 1st in scoring v the rangers. outscored ovechkin. he was 5th in scoring in limited time the season before and scored the biggest goal of those playoffs.

he's an average player that for four playoffs in a row has been far above average.
Players on the past 4 Cup Finalists that have earned 3m a year (or so):

Dave Bolland
Nilas Hjalmarsson
Dustin Brown
Jarrett Stoll
Matt Greene
Willie Mitchell
Chris Kelly
Brad Marchand
Bryce Salvador
Danius Zubrus
Andy Greene

Of those...who would you take Ward over? Maybe Zubrus...but that would be a stretch.

I dont buy that, Tex

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07-15-2013, 08:00 PM
  #993
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false. these coaches have been fired when the team stopped playing for them. at least starting with Cassidy. i don't recall the dynamics of Wilson's departure.

anyone watching the hanlon team and then the boudreau team and suggesting changing coaches was a bad move, well, i don't know what to say. same with boudreau.

the team has not quit on McPhee.

this much i am confident of. when McPhee is fired or resigns those that hate McPhee will hate the replacement more.
Players that quit on McPhee were sent packing. The long list of FA's that flipped the bird at him on their way out?

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07-15-2013, 08:03 PM
  #994
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Originally Posted by Liberati0n View Post
You said yourself your opposition to the Hamrlik signing wasn't Hamrlik himself but its conflict with a fundamental principle of how you believe GMs should operate:

I was simply stating my agreement with that sound principle. Any non-phailure of a GM knows you don't sign ancient 37-year olds to almost interminable two-year contracts.
I see.

So...forrest thru the trees? You support George, and his results? Or not?

Or is this just to poke the bear and be a contrarian? Tell me, I am enraptured by your response---

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07-15-2013, 08:07 PM
  #995
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
I see.

So...forrest thru the trees? You support George, and his results? Or not?

Or is this just to poke the bear and be a contrarian? Tell me, I am enraptured by your response---
I think he should be fired.

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07-15-2013, 08:10 PM
  #996
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I think he should be fired.
Good man. Welcome to the club

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07-15-2013, 08:47 PM
  #997
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They never should have fired Poile.

Imagine what he'd be doing with this organization.

The quality of a signing should be directly related to the team success it contributes too. By those standards they're almost all bad signings.

McPhee epitomizes mediocrity.

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07-15-2013, 09:33 PM
  #998
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Originally Posted by g00n View Post
Ah, the usual damage control. Never argue player moves with fans of management. The risks are always worth it, and the non-moves are always prudent. Can't win em all, only one team wins the Cup, yadda yadda yadda.

Excuses and spin.
its always better when everybody you talk to agrees with you. isn't it? when someone does have a different point of view you can just marginalize them....just like this above. nicely done.

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07-15-2013, 09:36 PM
  #999
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Players that quit on McPhee were sent packing. The long list of FA's that flipped the bird at him on their way out?
players leaving do that a lot. olie kolzig did it loudly. peter bondra did it. calle Johansson did it.

ive had enough for now. I am not going to change your mind. I am at a point though that I wouldn't mind seeing McPhee released just to see the screams of dismay when his replacement shows up.

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07-15-2013, 09:39 PM
  #1000
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