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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

2017-18 Champions Hockey League

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Old
09-21-2017, 12:17 PM
  #376
rooster85
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Mountfield development A fine on a table.
https://isport.blesk.cz/clanek/hokej...i-kritika.html
Can you tell us, non-czech speaking users, something more?


Last edited by rooster85: 09-21-2017 at 12:28 PM.
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09-21-2017, 12:37 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by rooster85 View Post
Can you tell something more to us, non-czech speaking users?
Of course.

As you know it was isport.cz who interviewed Mr. Schon (CEO of Mountfield), where he criticed the CHL. Swedish and Finnish journalists published the interview in Finnish/Swedish media. The same czech website, isport.cz, reports that Martin Baumann (CEO CHL) emailed to Mr.Řezn*ček (Director of Czech league) with an request to fine Mountfield Hockey Club for breaching an agreement between CHL and National Leagues/Federations. You know, bad imagine of the CHL in media. According to isport.cz the threat of a fine/sanction is real if Infront requests from the CHL to pay a fine, then the CHL will request from Czech side to pay the bill. Mr. Schon said that Czech league (their organ called APK) had no right to act on behalf of Mountfield HK (to approve a participation of the club in the CHL), because Mountfield GM, who attended the meeting of the APK when the CHL thing was discussed, had no right to act on behalf of Mountfield on CHL issue. Legal issue. Zlin, Kometa Brno and Chomutov criticised the CHL in the past.

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09-21-2017, 01:04 PM
  #378
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Here I agree that that Baumann guy is too agressive and pretends he is more powerfull than he really is. He should let this statement to fans consideration.

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09-21-2017, 01:28 PM
  #379
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If they have an agreement not to ciriticise the CHL in media, then there must be more clubs who dislike the CHLs development, but can not speak about it. My question is how can this end? Only three scenarios are possible, 1) the league will break up, or 2) the development will not be as good/fast as wanted, because not all clubs are on the same boat, or 3) the CHL leadership is so powerfull that will force all clubs to be on the same boat.

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09-22-2017, 07:15 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
If they have an agreement not to ciriticise the CHL in media, then there must be more clubs who dislike the CHLs development, but can not speak about it. My question is how can this end? Only three scenarios are possible, 1) the league will break up, or 2) the development will not be as good/fast as wanted, because not all clubs are on the same boat, or 3) the CHL leadership is so powerfull that will force all clubs to be on the same boat.
They dont have any specific agreement for purpose you mentioned. They probably have some shareholder contract or general treaty establishing CHL. For sure right to claim this potential damage might come from these contracts.

None of the scenario is valid. CHL does not have to be so powerfull. They can just try to suit Czech association of professional clubs (APK) as a CHL sharholder and if they win, its pretty much set up for the future.

The most probable scenario is that there will be meeting of APK where they have to find out and confirm one general attitude towards CHL.

To be honest, that MHK CEO statement was not only non-diplomatic but also kind of stupid and made all czechs look like rednecks again.

Hradec Kralove obviously approved CHL project on APK meeting. Fact that MHK CEO is looking for excuses now in a way that MHK representative wasnt entitled to vote in this specific topic just shows how weak arguments he has. I would assume that when you have concerns about validity of Company/organization meeting, there is ussually time period within you can claim any breaches of the law.If you dont do it, it is considered as a valid. He obviously didnt do it so he should rather be silent than to promote his own person in a media one or two years later.

Good think is that this litle argue made clubs to sit together and finally find some conclusion on it.

Reznicek (extraleague CEO) was very realistic about this issue. He basically said that everybody looking at us with open mouth and that we, rather than to bring quality on ice, just looking for some problems. I can assign his final sentence : "others do it better than us and have better results, so this confrontation is definetely valuable for us". This the basis all czech clubs should consider imo.

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09-22-2017, 07:44 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Jablkon View Post
They dont have any specific agreement for purpose you mentioned. They probably have some shareholder contract or general treaty establishing CHL. For sure right to claim this potential damage might come from these contracts.
That is what I said.

Quote:
None of the scenario is valid. CHL does not have to be so powerfull. They can just try to suit Czech association of professional clubs (APK) as a CHL sharholder and if they win, its pretty much set up for the future.
And if they lose?

And if they win ... there will be a bad blood between the CHL & clubs (not all clubs of course).

Quote:
The most probable scenario is that there will be meeting of APK where they have to find out and confirm one general attitude towards CHL.

To be honest, that MHK CEO statement was not only non-diplomatic but also kind of stupid and made all czechs look like rednecks again.

Hradec Kralove obviously approved CHL project on APK meeting. Fact that MHK CEO is looking for excuses now in a way that MHK representative wasnt entitled to vote in this specific topic just shows how weak arguments he has. I would assume that when you have concerns about validity of Company/organization meeting, there is ussually time period within you can claim any breaches of the law.If you dont do it, it is considered as a valid. He obviously didnt do it so he should rather be silent than to promote his own person in a media one or two years later.

Good think is that this litle argue made clubs to sit together and finally find some conclusion on it.

Reznicek (extraleague CEO) was very realistic about this issue. He basically said that everybody looking at us with open mouth and that we, rather than to bring quality on ice, just looking for some problems. I can assign his final sentence : "others do it better than us and have better results, so this confrontation is definetely valuable for us". This the basis all czech clubs should consider imo.

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09-22-2017, 07:56 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
You know, bad imagine of the CHL in media.


THe word you're looking for is image.

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09-22-2017, 07:59 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
If they have an agreement not to ciriticise the CHL in media, then there must be more clubs who dislike the CHL´s development, but can not speak about it. My question is how can this end? Only three scenarios are possible, 1) the league will break up, or 2) the development will not be as good/fast as wanted, because not all clubs are on the same boat, or 3) the CHL leadership is so powerfull that will force all clubs to be on the same boat.
That is actually standard practice around the world. NHL, Liiga, KHL, EPL for example are fairly strict about public criticism of the leagues (refs and other things).

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09-22-2017, 01:16 PM
  #384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky;135971959[B
]That is what I said[/B].


And if they lose?

And if they win ... there will be a bad blood between the CHL & clubs (not all clubs of course).
You said "if they have agreement not to critize CHL, then there must be more clubs...." And this is completely different meaning again. First of all, as Jussi said, its pretty standard, second smth like this is in almost every contract, third it can also easily come from law by which CHL is established. So its not certain that such a clause, if exists, was put there because they counted with clubs criticizing them.

You obviously understand that situation where shareholder is bashing its own company is not normal and such a entity might breach many rules according to respective business law. MHK is not a shareholder, rather the member of shareholder so it depends on respective law whether such a shareholder or its member are responsible for such behaviour, if such behaviour breaches any rule.

But it definetely does not automatically mean that they wanted to force clubs into CHL and make them be silent about it just because they knew there will be a lot of clubs hating them or not willing to participate.

You would obviously like to see such a situation but you dont have any evidence for it.

Nobody read these documents and CHL lawyers will probably have to study it as well. This also often depends on respective lawyer what kind of draft he choose and what clauses he put there and if such a clauses are even valid. But again many contracts have notorious clauses which does not reflect reality but just tiny possibility.

So far it even looks that MHK approved CHL conditions. Same can easily go for Zlin. I dont know what are rules for voting in APK. But even if they were against the majority, they should respect its decision.

Sorry I agree there will be bad blood, I just can not agree with some of your posts where you interpret situation in a way you would prefer to see it, even if nobody can be certain about it here.


Last edited by Jablkon: 09-22-2017 at 01:21 PM.
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Old
09-22-2017, 01:33 PM
  #385
vorky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jablkon View Post
You said "if they have agreement not to critize CHL, then there must be more clubs...." And this is completely different meaning again. First of all, as Jussi said, its pretty standard, second smth like this is in almost every contract, third it can also easily come from law by which CHL is established. So its not certain that such a clause, if exists, was put there because they counted with clubs criticizing them.

You obviously understand that situation where shareholder is bashing its own company is not normal and such a entity might breach many rules according to respective business law. MHK is not a shareholder, rather the member of shareholder so it depends on respective law whether such a shareholder or its member are responsible for such behaviour, if such behaviour breaches any rule.

But it definetely does not automatically mean that they wanted to force clubs into CHL and make them be silent about it just because they knew there will be a lot of clubs hating them or not willing to participate.

You would obviously like to see such a situation but you dont have any evidence for it.

Nobody read these documents and CHL lawyers will probably have to study it as well. This also often depends on respective lawyer what kind of draft he choose and what clauses he put there and if such a clauses are even valid. But again many contracts have notorious clauses which does not reflect reality but just tiny possibility.

So far it even looks that MHK approved CHL conditions. Same can easily go for Zlin. I dont know what are rules for voting in APK. But even if they were against the majority, they should respect its decision.
There is a reason why I wrote "That is what I said"

Quote:
Sorry I agree there will be bad blood, I just can not agree with some of your posts where you interpret situation in a way you would prefer to see it, even if nobody can be certain about it here.
It is fine if you do not agree. I would welcome your scenarios of the situation.

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09-22-2017, 02:44 PM
  #386
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If an owner or management of an NHL team came out and was publicly critical of... I dunno... Let's say the way the league handles revenue sharing, that individual/team would be hearing from NHL HQ in very short order.

I guess it's somewhat note worthy that a club involved in the CHL doesn't hold the tournament in particularly high regard, but even then I think most people already know the CHL has a lot of work to do before it is broadly accepted as a "big deal" in European hockey circles.

So ya, I'm not seeing a whole ton of scandal here.

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Yesterday, 04:01 AM
  #387
Jablkon
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
There is a reason why I wrote "That is what I said"


It is fine if you do not agree. I would welcome your scenarios of the situation.
You said one of many possibilities which you would like to see as truthful. However there are several scenarios what could happen:

1. they knew there were clubs with CHL issues so they put some clause into shareholders treaty;

2. they didnt know that or didnt consider it and lawyer preparing the draft put such a clause into the contract as its a normal process in drafting these contracts (to prevent such a situation)

3. Its not even in contract and this right to claim damages is comming from law by which CHL is established

4. Even if its there it does not cover situation where club, ie. not a direct shareholder, is critizing CHL.

5. They put such a clause into contract despite there was no sign of any club having an issue with CHL in a time they signed shareholder contract.


and I might continue. I understand, based on your history here, you are pro KHL guy who is not that much in favour of CHL. Thus you add some plus points to KHL here and there and give some cons to CHL. But this should have some limits. This is a legal issue which nobody knows anything about and politicis and play the role in it.

So dont make a picture just on speculations.

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Yesterday, 08:57 AM
  #388
vorky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jablkon View Post
You said one of many possibilities which you would like to see as truthful. However there are several scenarios what could happen:

1. they knew there were clubs with CHL issues so they put some clause into shareholders treaty;

2. they didnt know that or didnt consider it and lawyer preparing the draft put such a clause into the contract as its a normal process in drafting these contracts (to prevent such a situation)

3. Its not even in contract and this right to claim damages is comming from law by which CHL is established

4. Even if its there it does not cover situation where club, ie. not a direct shareholder, is critizing CHL.

5. They put such a clause into contract despite there was no sign of any club having an issue with CHL in a time they signed shareholder contract.¨


and I might continue. I understand, based on your history here, you are pro KHL guy who is not that much in favour of CHL. Thus you add some plus points to KHL here and there and give some cons to CHL. But this should have some limits. This is a legal issue which nobody knows anything about and politicis and play the role in it.

So dont make a picture just on speculations.
I am not talking about shareholders treaty. I am talking what effect the the current situation can have for the future. I wrote 3 scenarios, but I would welcome more from you...

My scenarios:
1) the league will break up, or
2) they will solve the problem somehow, but the trust will not be there, so the development will not be as good/fast as wanted, or
3) the CHL leadership is so powerfull that will force all clubs to be on the same boat.

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Yesterday, 09:56 AM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
I am not talking about shareholders treaty. I am talking what effect the the current situation can have for the future. I wrote 3 scenarios, but I would welcome more from you...

My scenarios:
1) the league will break up, or
2) they will solve the problem somehow, but the trust will not be there, so the development will not be as good/fast as wanted, or
3) the CHL leadership is so powerfull that will force all clubs to be on the same boat.
The CHL is owned by the clubs and the leagues. And it's a democratic organization where the shareholders elect the leadership. So the CHL leadership has no reason to be "powerful". Their only job is to act in the interest of the clubs and the leagues. If there are a few clubs that are unhappy with the CHL, it's not a problem. If there are more clubs that are unhappy, then the leadership will change.

[MOD]


Last edited by BattleBorn: Yesterday at 11:52 AM. Reason: unneeded
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Yesterday, 11:55 AM
  #390
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@bordshockeypampen

I have asked many times - how will the CHL solve their problems? Nobody never offered a solution or a vision. Just words ... it will get better within XY years, but no solution.

I see a positive in the CHL too, but negatives are majority.

Explain me one thing. How do you want to solve problems if your leadership is not powerful or if not all clubs are on the same boat?

Btw, even Swedish and Finnish journalists have an opinion that the CHL is not great. Why ... if everything is OK?

E: I am a supporter of strong European hockey.


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Yesterday, 01:25 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
@bordshockeypampen

I have asked many times - how will the CHL solve their problems? Nobody never offered a solution or a vision. Just words ... it will get better within XY years, but no solution.

I see a positive in the CHL too, but negatives are majority.

Explain me one thing. How do you want to solve problems if your leadership is not powerful or if not all clubs are on the same boat?

Btw, even Swedish and Finnish journalists have an opinion that the CHL is not great. Why ... if everything is OK?

E: I am a supporter of strong European hockey.
Not really. Finnish media's been mostly touting that, apart form Tappara, Finnish hockey needs to keep up with the pace of other European clubs: https://www.leijonat.com/2017/08/29/...ada-jalkoihin/

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