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this will be it for George......

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Old
01-12-2014, 11:10 PM
  #101
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Ok Mystyle. My bad. I spelled his name wrong. You got me. My sincerest apologies to you, and to the PerrEault family.
Well, you also got my name wrong, so I see it's a trend with you.

I've already pointed out the flaws in your argument numerous times, and now you're resulting to basically saying I don't have any convictions. Great ad hominem attack, rather than engaging on the issue at hand. I'm waiting for you to actually present any evidence at all to support your case.

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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Edit-- turns out you've never actually started a thread save a few game day ones. Huh. That says something.
Actually, I've started 31 threads on hfboards, only 4 of which were GDTs.

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01-13-2014, 01:12 AM
  #102
CapitalsCupFantasy
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I'm still annoyed that Bouchard never panned out. I thought both he and MP85 would eventually make it. Leave it to McPhee to get the crappy Sykora AND the crappy Bouchard.

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Old
01-13-2014, 08:34 AM
  #103
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I'm still annoyed that Bouchard never panned out. I thought both he and MP85 would eventually make it. Leave it to McPhee to get the crappy Sykora AND the crappy Bouchard.
A family ties post that didn't ***** about Gustafsson or Seabrook?

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01-13-2014, 01:29 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
A family ties post that didn't ***** about Gustafsson or Seabrook?
I didn't want to steal all the glory.

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Old
01-13-2014, 02:37 PM
  #105
SDBondra
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
They got the best player in the draft and the best goalie in the draft. It could have very realistically have been Brassard and Irving instead of Backstrom and Varlamov, and no one would have batted an eye on draft day.
This part is debatable. Toews/Backstrom are definitely the top 2 but if I could choose between them might take Toews. Also, EVERYONE would have done more than batted an eye if we had taken Brassard ahead of both Backstrom and Kessel - who were available when we picked. Brassard was definitely a strong prospect but there was a pretty well-established top 5 that year and anyone outside of Johnson-Staal-Toews-Backstrom-Kessel would have been a stretch. All of those 5 were considered sure things (as sure as any draft pick can be).

Having said that I agree with you that we had a really strong draft because players like Varlamov, Neuvirth and Perreault have all panned out better than other players drafted near them that year.

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01-14-2014, 10:05 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Well, you also got my name wrong, so I see it's a trend with you.

I've already pointed out the flaws in your argument numerous times, and now you're resulting to basically saying I don't have any convictions. Great ad hominem attack, rather than engaging on the issue at hand. I'm waiting for you to actually present any evidence at all to support your case.


Actually, I've started 31 threads on hfboards, only 4 of which were GDTs.
Spell check does what it does.

You spouted your opinions to my arguments by touting some junk about percentages of players drafted from 88-97. The league was very shallow then as compared to 2006, so to use that data is farcical. Why debate that? I also told you Neuvirth and Varlamovs games played stats is biased as they did not have Vet G's in front of them, no one blocking their path, as is usual for young G's that aren't phenoms. You ignored those points. Again, why debate you? You choose to discuss or ignore what you deem relevant. One sided discussions are useless.

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01-14-2014, 10:07 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by SDBondra View Post
This part is debatable. Toews/Backstrom are definitely the top 2 but if I could choose between them might take Toews. Also, EVERYONE would have done more than batted an eye if we had taken Brassard ahead of both Backstrom and Kessel - who were available when we picked. Brassard was definitely a strong prospect but there was a pretty well-established top 5 that year and anyone outside of Johnson-Staal-Toews-Backstrom-Kessel would have been a stretch. All of those 5 were considered sure things (as sure as any draft pick can be).

Having said that I agree with you that we had a really strong draft because players like Varlamov, Neuvirth and Perreault have all panned out better than other players drafted near them that year.
Varlamov...yes (right after (Giroux)
PerrEault.....yes, for sure.
Neuvirth? Not so much

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01-14-2014, 11:37 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Spell check does what it does.

You spouted your opinions to my arguments by touting some junk about percentages of players drafted from 88-97. The league was very shallow then as compared to 2006, so to use that data is farcical. Why debate that?
Would you prefer more recent data, with incomplete data sets of players still in the beginnings of their careers? Plenty of others have looked at draft results, and reached similar conclusions.
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/pro...ft_success.htm
http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/25/va...ng-draft-picks
http://www.theartofscouting.com/defa...?p=nhlprospect
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/scott_cullen/?ID=267960

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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
I also told you Neuvirth and Varlamovs games played stats is biased as they did not have Vet G's in front of them, no one blocking their path, as is usual for young G's that aren't phenoms. You ignored those points. Again, why debate you? You choose to discuss or ignore what you deem relevant. One sided discussions are useless.
So neither goalie was blocked?
Oh yes, I forgot about that era where we were allowed to play two goalies at once and both Valramov and Neuvirth were in net at the same time. How silly of me! No way that either goaltender was blocking the other, or that we had veteran netminders like Jose Theodore and Tomas Vokoun. Or other young goalies like Holtby and Grubauer.

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01-15-2014, 08:35 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Would you prefer more recent data, with incomplete data sets of players still in the beginnings of their careers? Plenty of others have looked at draft results, and reached similar conclusions.
http://proicehockey.about.com/od/pro...ft_success.htm
http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/25/va...ng-draft-picks
http://www.theartofscouting.com/defa...?p=nhlprospect
http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/scott_cullen/?ID=267960


So neither goalie was blocked?
Oh yes, I forgot about that era where we were allowed to play two goalies at once and both Valramov and Neuvirth were in net at the same time. How silly of me! No way that either goaltender was blocking the other, or that we had veteran netminders like Jose Theodore and Tomas Vokoun. Or other young goalies like Holtby and Grubauer.
Being blocked by Mikka Kiprusoff or Ryan Miller is a lot different than being blocked by who you mentioned.. Theodore? Really? You are going to use him as an example of a dominant vet goalie blocking the path of a young G. Vokoun was one year. The Caps individual goalie issues is what allowed V and N's over inflated games played stats. If you want to ignore that, then you are just being pig headed. You can't tout their games played as some vast measurement of success without actually looking at why the played those games. By your logic, Connor Carrick is well on his way as going down as one of the best players of the 2012 draft. Sure thing.

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Old
01-15-2014, 09:13 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Ridley Simon View Post
Being blocked by Mikka Kiprusoff or Ryan Miller is a lot different than being blocked by who you mentioned.. Theodore? Really? You are going to use him as an example of a dominant vet goalie blocking the path of a young G. Vokoun was one year. The Caps individual goalie issues is what allowed V and N's over inflated games played stats. If you want to ignore that, then you are just being pig headed. You can't tout their games played as some vast measurement of success without actually looking at why the played those games. By your logic, Connor Carrick is well on his way as going down as one of the best players of the 2012 draft. Sure thing.
Are you really going to insist that Irving is on par with Neuvirth? Despite the fact that he never even claimed the back-up role in Calgary and isn't there now that Kipper retired? See what happens when you try and put words in someone's mouth? Instead of trying to claim I called Theo a "dominant vet goalie," why don't you actually engage with what I did say.

BOTH goalies have significant games played, despite having to share the same net with each other, other high profile young goaltenders (Holtby, Grubauer), and the slew of veterans McPhee brought in. The fact that they were able to unseat Theodore and Vokoun should be a credit to them, regardless of the fact that neither Theodore or Vokoun are Ryan Miller.

If we had just one young goalie, maybe I could buy the "over inflated" argument. But there were multiple, sharing the same net. Maybe it's not "blocked" per se, but when you have to share the goal with another netminder, you're not going to inflate your games played stat.

It's far too early to say much of anything about the 2012 class, and you know that. It's the same reason the draft data I was using wasn't analyzing the mid/late-2000s classes. It's not flawed logic, it's using the data once it has stabilized. And that objective data supports the consensus on drafting. You have yet to provide any hard evidence to support your assertion that McPhee had a poor draft in 2006.

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