Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal
What is your most "radical" opinion regarding politics?
Why are these not problems in the current private school system?
Private schools do have some sort of transportation, but doing it on a mass scale?
Quote:
Students are driven by their parents, carpool, or the school organizes a bus route system (like the school I went to as a kid). The school decides who enrolls at ther school, just like in any school or university (entrance exams?).
Great. So if a school doesn't want some inner city kids to enroll at their school, they can deny them? Are we going to have affirmative action for these schools?
Quote:
This isn't even a radical idea. It's been tried to some extent in several countries to some success.
Some extent, some success.
It is a radical idea. I mean who sets up the curriculum? How do you get a uniform class plan going? In America, it would be a very radical idea given how different schools are.
Private schools do have some sort of transportation, but doing it on a mass scale?
Great. So if a school doesn't want some inner city kids to enroll at their school, they can deny them? Are we going to have affirmative action for these schools?
Some extent, some success.
It is a radical idea. I mean who sets up the curriculum? How do you get a uniform class plan going? In America, it would be a very radical idea given how different schools are.
The whole point is that schools are independent, they can adopt any curriculum they want. They can offer AP courses, the IB, or any system they like.
This whole notion that you must have a one-size-fits-all system for everyone is ridiculous. Allow school administrators, teacher, parents, to decide what program is best for students, and promote variety and choice in such matters.
Sure, why don't you just tell everyone out there what exactly it has accomplished. I'll be waiting. Are kids nicer nowadays than before? I don't think so. You are basically saying that awareness can help and it can't, it is window dressing that sweeps the real problem under the rug. If you think our society is more tolerant than it used to be than you haven't been on the internet very long. We are as intolerant and mean as we have ever been so unles you think we can change human nature then we are doing nothing essentially. Far better to not only help your child and be involved but to also teach them and prepare them for the times when you aren't going to be around.
If you believe the media you'd get the idea that bullying is a new issue. It has always been there.
But I will ask, what have all of these rallies and such done? Do the mean kids stop bullying the weak because their school arranged an anti-bullying assembly? No, they'll wait for the next day and do what they do. These awareness rallies do not get to the root of the issue, they just coddle children and shelter them from the real world.
Disagree with the bolded. Raising awareness does not imply that it is a new issue.
It's hard to say if it's done anything because I haven't talked to everyone to see if anyone has had a change of opinion regarding anything. I'm sure it's done more than doing nothing though.
The whole point is that schools are independent, they can adopt any curriculum they want. They can offer AP courses, the IB, or any system they like.
This whole notion that you must have a one-size-fits-all system for everyone is ridiculous. Allow school administrators, teacher, parents, to decide what program is best for students, and promote variety and choice in such matters.
That's great.
So, how does a kid that lives in Kansas and isn't taught anything about evolution because that's the curriculum his parents want him to be taught go to college at Stanford to become a doctor?
So, how does a kid that lives in Kansas and isn't taught anything about evolution because that's the curriculum his parents want him to be taught go to college at Stanford to become a doctor?
Why would a university like Stanford accept a student who got such a ****** education?
Also, the beauty of this plan is that you can choose which schools your kids attend. if you actually care about your kid you would send them to a secular school that has adopted a reputable programme. If you're a religious fundamentalist your kid can go to a religious school that doesn't teach their kids real science (or the government just doesn't accept a crap school into its voucher system) and then face the consequences when his education isnt taken seriously.
This isn't some lunatic idea, it was proposed originally by Milton Friedman, who wasn't exactly an extremist (even if you disagreed with his views).
Why would a university like Stanford accept a student who got such a ****** education?
So basically, he's denied an education because of his parents. Good system there.
Quote:
Also, the beauty of this plan is that you can choose which schools your kids attend. if you actually care about your kid you would send them to a secular school that has adopted a reputable programme. If you're a religious fundamentalist your kid can go to a religious school that doesn't teach their kids real science (or the government just doesn't accept a crap school into its voucher system) and then face the consequences when his education isnt taken seriously.
Great. But what if the kid wants to go to a good school, knows his parents are whacked out religious fanatics and doesn't want to go to their school they choose?
Personally, I think the opposite would be better. A Federal Education system mandated by the federal government instead of state governments.
So basically, he's denied an education because of his parents. Good system there.
Great. But what if the kid wants to go to a good school, knows his parents are whacked out religious fanatics and doesn't want to go to their school they choose?
Personally, I think the opposite would be better. A Federal Education system mandated by the federal government instead of state governments.
Why do you want to impose an education system on everyone even if some might not want it? I thought we lived in a free society?
If a kid's parents are sending him to a school he doesn't want to go to, he can run away from home and find new parents to take care of him, as I have advocated for in the past.
Why do you want to impose an education system on everyone even if some might not want it? I thought we lived in a free society?
We don't live in a free society. If we lived in a free society, we wouldn't have censorship, we wouldn't have laws or regulations. Companies could pollute all the want. People could drive as fast as they want. People could kill anyone. Freedom is an illusion. There always will need to be structured governance or else we will live in anarchy. And while I wouldn't mind anarchy, I don't trust my neighbors.
Quote:
If a kid's parents are sending him to a school he doesn't want to go to, he can run away from home and find new parents to take care of him, as I have advocated for in the past.
Oh that's great. And what if new parents don't want him? Or the only schools around are the whacked out religious cult groups. Where does he go? Hitchhike to Nebraska? Yeah running away. That sounds like a novel idea.
We don't live in a free society. If we lived in a free society, we wouldn't have censorship, we wouldn't have laws or regulations. Companies could pollute all the want. People could drive as fast as they want. People could kill anyone. Freedom is an illusion. There always will need to be structured governance or else we will live in anarchy. And while I wouldn't mind anarchy, I don't trust my neighbors.
Freedom ends where another person's begins. I cannot kill someone because it violates someone else's freedom.
Back on topic, so under your wonderful system, what happens if Rick Santorum is elected president and forces all schools to teach a bunch of stuff you don't like? Wouldn't that be far worse than the horrible examples you're providing me? Now it's certainly a more extreme example, but what you are advocating is a one-size-fits-all system in an enormous and diverse nation. You will end up forcing students, parents, teachers to teach something they would vehemently disagree with while having nothing to do about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo
Oh that's great. And what if new parents don't want him? Or the only schools around are the whacked out religious cult groups. Where does he go? Hitchhike to Nebraska? Yeah running away. That sounds like a novel idea.
A son/daughter lives with his parents and is therefore bound to the rules that they impose on them. The parents are always going to force their kids to do something they don't want, and education is one of them.
Back on topic, so under your wonderful system, what happens if Rick Santorum is elected president and forces all schools to teach a bunch of stuff you don't like?
Um, I didn't know Santorum also ran Congress and the Board of Education.
Quote:
Wouldn't that be far worse than the horrible examples you're providing me? Now it's certainly a more extreme example, but what you are advocating is a one-size-fits-all system in an enormous and diverse nation. You will end up forcing students, parents, teachers to teach something they would vehemently disagree with while having nothing to do about it.
No. To be honest, there isn't ever going to be a one size fit all education system. But when you have some schools teaching creationism alongside evolution (or not even teaching evolution), and other junk classes, there needs to be structure. That isn't to say we can't teach certain parts of the vibrant culture that is America; like Texas History.
The problem with your scenario is two fold; racism inherent in the system and forcing kids to go to schools that their parents might deem acceptable and to pass on their mistakes to another generation.
Quote:
The parents are always going to force their kids to do something they don't want, and education is one of them.
So does social services get called in? Education is much more important than eating your broccoli or watching too much TV. Forcing a kid to learn junk science like creationism is going to have severe repercussions for the child in the future.
There is also a prevailing thought about education that I find interesting;
You no longer learn at school but at home. What you learn at home is brought to school so the teacher can assist with what you learned and what you can put into practice.
Disagree with the bolded. Raising awareness does not imply that it is a new issue.
It's hard to say if it's done anything because I haven't talked to everyone to see if anyone has had a change of opinion regarding anything. I'm sure it's done more than doing nothing though.
I am not saying it is a new issue either, but I am saying if you didn't know any better you'd think it was something new by the way it is being presented.
I'm sorry, I just don't get wrapped up into these anti-bullying rallies. Kids are smart and if they want to bully a kid they'll adjust and find a new way. If parents and teachers needed any awareness then they aren't doing a good job in the first place in my opinion. I mean, really, talk to your kid once in a while.
I am not saying it is a new issue either, but I am saying if you didn't know any better you'd think it was something new by the way it is being presented.
I'm sorry, I just don't get wrapped up into these anti-bullying rallies. Kids are smart and if they want to bully a kid they'll adjust and find a new way. If parents and teachers needed any awareness then they aren't doing a good job in the first place in my opinion. I mean, really, talk to your kid once in a while.
They put in an anti bullying program in the high school where I teach and it's been a huge success- it is proactive rather than reactive and designed to create a school culture of support and pride where bullying isnt tolerated among the kids. The football team and the gay-straight alliance partnered up to put on an assembly for the incoming freshmen- it was all student voices in the presentation and all directed at supporting each other. The school also put in place a student mentor program for dozens of freshmen who seemed to need a little support at the school- which has been great for both the mentors and the metntees - not only individually but helPing them take a little responsibility for influencing the school community in a positive way.
I hear you that "awareness" alone is pretty pointless. It it's the first step towards making real positive changes
They put in an anti bullying program in the high school where I teach and it's been a huge success- it is proactive rather than reactive and designed to create a school culture of support and pride where bullying isnt tolerated among the kids. The football team and the gay-straight alliance partnered up to put on an assembly for the incoming freshmen- it was all student voices in the presentation and all directed at supporting each other. The school also put in place a student mentor program for dozens of freshmen who seemed to need a little support at the school- which has been great for both the mentors and the metntees - not only individually but helPing them take a little responsibility for influencing the school community in a positive way.
I hear you that "awareness" alone is pretty pointless. It it's the first step towards making real positive changes
Good to hear.
I always think these initiatives are more effective when you involve the community. So that means, parents, kids, teachers, Rec leaders, coaches...as many community members that are committed to seeing their community become a better place.
And stick to it.
Like a great many social issues, the goal becomes education...in the broadest sense of the word.
