First of all, Bure definitely deserves the honor he played his heart out for this organization and he was a true fan favorite. But what I really want to talk about is the slandering of Markus Naslund and his jersey retirement. I'm sick and tired of people saying Nazzy doesn't deserve to be up in the rafters. When Markus Naslund came here he obviously struggled, so did the team. If you watched hockey back then you would know how hopeless the Canucks team was. When Naslund finally broke out in 1998-99 he amassed 36 goals 30 assists and 66 points on a team where the next leading scorer was Mark Messier with 48 points in 59 games. In 1999-00 he had a bit more to play with and while still contributing 65 points he didn't have the same season as the year before. But the team improved, and Naslund continued to put up 75 points and 41 goals in 72 games on a team where andrew cassels the second top point contributor had 56 points in 66 games. Naslund carried them back to the playoffs again for a VERY long time. Not only did Markus increase ticket sales every night he was in the roster, he was all the teams shining hope. He gave the fans of Vancouver a reason to cheer for the team again. This ushered in the era of the WCE. I have never ever in my entire life witnessed GM place(now rogers arena) to be louder. The atmosphere was amazing. Naslund receives a lot of criticism for not being able to win a cup on the "stacked" Vancouver Canucks. That team was mediocre. The WCE express line was the only reason it won games and any reasonable fan knew it. He was also our top playoff performer every year before the lockout, he was absolutely a game changer and what he did for the city of Vancouver goes under appreciated by the NHL because of the universal hate for the Canucks and casual fans who are mislead by stats. Shoulder injuries, leg injuries and concussions led to Markus Naslunds slow decline, not a lack of heart.
Naslund was the first major trophy winner for the Canucks too, wasn't he? (Not considering the Calder major)
Naslund was the first major trophy winner for the Canucks too, wasn't he? (Not considering the Calder major)
Unfortunately, Markus was always second-best in the NHL during his prime, which resulted in him being unable to capture some of the league's other individual awards.
In 2002-03, he was two points (104) behind Peter Forsberg (106) for the Art Ross Trophy. That same year, he was two goals (48) behind Milan Hejduk (50) for the Rocket Richard Trophy. Forsberg ended up winning the Hart Memorial Trophy while Naslund won the Lester B. Pearson Award (now the Ted Lindsay Award). Markus had 12 GWG that season, five ahead of anybody else in the top 12 in point scoring that year (aside from fellow linemate, Todd Bertuzzi).
The year before, he was second in league scoring once again, six points behind Jarome Iginla for the Art Ross.
For those few years, Markus was on the brink of earning a number of individual awards and establishing himself as the Canucks' first multiple-trophy winner. A bit of extra luck would have made him an indisputable star in Vancouver. Pavel, of course, would have won the Rocket Richard Trophy in 1994 had it existed at the time.
Why did it take so long? It's a no brainier to retire a player of that caliber.
In a nutshell, he burned his bridges out of Vancouver with kerosene.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Risiko
For those curious about the story of the bad blood, 'Wetcoaster' from here posted this a few years ago which makes for a really interesting read.
All credit for this post goes to Wetcoaster who I believe still posts here.
"As far as Bure finally demanding a trade, blame the Canucks management - they mishandled things with Bure from the day he left Russia. The Canucks would not make Bure a contrct offer so he was unable to get a visa to come to Canada. However he did have a visa to get into the US from his appearance in the 1989 World Juniors held in Anchorage Alaska. He used that visa to slip out of the Soviet Union and travelled to California.
The Canucks forced Bure to pay part of his own transfer fee to the Russian hockey authorities before they would sign him to his initial contract.
They left him dangling and sitting in the USA after he had left Russia with no contact from the Canucks management as they were not sure they wanted to sign him for the season. Brian Burke (then assistant GM) called once and then left him in limbo.
Bure was promised a new contract and substantial raise if he played well so he signed a low ball offer to "prove" himself ($585,360 and $467,820). I suppose the Calder Trophy as top rookie and following up with a 60 goal season did not count because the Canucks broke that promise. A bitter negotiation ensued over the next season during which Bure again scored 60 goals.
When the the new contract was finally prepared the Canucks pulled a "bait and switch" and tried to change the currency to Canadian dollars when no regular NHL players were signing Canadian dollar contracts let alone superstars. Bure finally signed for $4.5 million. He asked that Pat Quinn attend the contract signing so they could shake jhands and put the bad blood behind them - Quinn refused.
Quinn pulled a similar stunt with Wayne Gretzky when his agent, Mik Bartlett had reached a contract in principle in the middle of the night and Quinn demanded that Gretzky be dragged out of bed to sign the deal on the spot. Gretzky then signed with the Rangers. Could you have imagined Gretzky centering Bure???
After Bure finally signed his contract which included a guaranteed salary in the event of a lockout, the Canucks reneged on paying his salary for the lockout period. Bure had to take the Canucks to arbitration to get paid the money legally due to him.
The Canucks had a habit of breaking contracts as with Larionov and Krutov's transfer fee contracts. Arbitration was needed to force payment in that case as well.
BTW Bure never did threaten to hold out during the 1994 play-offs. First Quinn claimed he was told this by "one of my guys" (McPhee???) and then Quinn had to admit that was untrue during the arbitration hearing when he was placed uwnder oath.
Quinn tried to blame the Bure hold out rumour on the media making up stories. It was just another story planted by the Canucks with the Canucks friendly media when the negotiations turned nasty - just like has been done with other players like Linden, Ohlund, Umberger, Klatt, etc.
Given the treatment by Canucks management, it is surprising that Bure had not demanded a trade before he did. When you have a superstar and an elite talent like Bure you do not go out of your way to deliberately PO such a player."
1000% Hearsay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckless
IMO Smyl and Naslund hanging from the rafters cheapen the incredible honor.
Agree with Naslund but an owner can do whatever he wants with his team (ex Colorado retiring Ray Bourque's number).
As for Smyl, that comment shows your age as you clearly don't have a clue what he did for the team on and off the ice.
Last edited by Chairman Maouth: 11-12-2012 at 03:58 PM.
Reason: edit
For those curious about the story of the bad blood, 'Wetcoaster' from here posted this a few years ago which makes for a really interesting read.
All credit for this post goes to Wetcoaster who I believe still posts here.
"As far as Bure finally demanding a trade, blame the Canucks management - they mishandled things with Bure from the day he left Russia. The Canucks would not make Bure a contrct offer so he was unable to get a visa to come to Canada. However he did have a visa to get into the US from his appearance in the 1989 World Juniors held in Anchorage Alaska. He used that visa to slip out of the Soviet Union and travelled to California.
The Canucks forced Bure to pay part of his own transfer fee to the Russian hockey authorities before they would sign him to his initial contract.
They left him dangling and sitting in the USA after he had left Russia with no contact from the Canucks management as they were not sure they wanted to sign him for the season. Brian Burke (then assistant GM) called once and then left him in limbo.
Bure was promised a new contract and substantial raise if he played well so he signed a low ball offer to "prove" himself ($585,360 and $467,820). I suppose the Calder Trophy as top rookie and following up with a 60 goal season did not count because the Canucks broke that promise. A bitter negotiation ensued over the next season during which Bure again scored 60 goals.
When the the new contract was finally prepared the Canucks pulled a "bait and switch" and tried to change the currency to Canadian dollars when no regular NHL players were signing Canadian dollar contracts let alone superstars. Bure finally signed for $4.5 million. He asked that Pat Quinn attend the contract signing so they could shake jhands and put the bad blood behind them - Quinn refused.
Quinn pulled a similar stunt with Wayne Gretzky when his agent, Mik Bartlett had reached a contract in principle in the middle of the night and Quinn demanded that Gretzky be dragged out of bed to sign the deal on the spot. Gretzky then signed with the Rangers. Could you have imagined Gretzky centering Bure???
After Bure finally signed his contract which included a guaranteed salary in the event of a lockout, the Canucks reneged on paying his salary for the lockout period. Bure had to take the Canucks to arbitration to get paid the money legally due to him.
The Canucks had a habit of breaking contracts as with Larionov and Krutov's transfer fee contracts. Arbitration was needed to force payment in that case as well.
BTW Bure never did threaten to hold out during the 1994 play-offs. First Quinn claimed he was told this by "one of my guys" (McPhee???) and then Quinn had to admit that was untrue during the arbitration hearing when he was placed uwnder oath.
Quinn tried to blame the Bure hold out rumour on the media making up stories. It was just another story planted by the Canucks with the Canucks friendly media when the negotiations turned nasty - just like has been done with other players like Linden, Ohlund, Umberger, Klatt, etc.
Given the treatment by Canucks management, it is surprising that Bure had not demanded a trade before he did. When you have a superstar and an elite talent like Bure you do not go out of your way to deliberately PO such a player."
First time i've ever read this. Bure is my favorite player and this is just disgusting
I'm honestly shocked that bure even accepted this from the canucks. (yes i realize its different people and its run differently now, but still)
Sportsnet's Top 5 countdown featuring Pavel Bure will air tonight on Connected. It would be much appreciated if someone could record and upload it to YouTube in HD.
Also, the meeting between Bure, Odjick, and Aquilini will apparently occur tomorrow evening. Hopefully we hear news about it by Sunday.
The people that do the graphic overlays for the top 10 lists on tsn and sportsnet are really terrible.
Let's put a big ass overlay right over the skate to stick part. I think people can figure our that 1) This is #2 on the list 2) This list consists of Bure goals and 3) This is a skate to stick goal. Keep your overlay to yourself.
Last edited by M A K A V E L I*: 11-10-2012 at 12:03 AM.
Agree with Naslund but an owner can do whatever he wants with his team (ex Colorado retiring Ray Bourque's number).
As for Smyl, that comment shows your age as you clearly don't have a clue what he did for the team on and off the ice.
funny how some people have such a problem with a star player (naslund) but worship the ground of a glorified 2nd liner. you talk as if nazzy didn't do anything for the team on or off the ice. nazzy's peak (point wise) is higher than smyl, and he did it in the trap/low scoring era. he lead the canucks out of the basement and into a constant cup contender. there was a time when the nucks were in financial trouble and interest/attendence were very low. he basically saved the team in vancouver. not to mention all his off ice work that nobody talk about, such as his frequent visit to the Canuck's place, or his nazzy-suite for the less fortunate kids in GM place, and other charity events. naslund definitely earned his right to have his jersey on the rafter.
It's embarrassing for the franchise that he got inducted before his jersey was retired. And retiring Naslunds jersey is a joke. It's embarrassing seeing that number up there.
It's embarrassing for the franchise that he got inducted before his jersey was retired. And retiring Naslunds jersey is a joke. It's embarrassing seeing that number up there.
I'll disagree with you on the first point, a lot of franchises wait until a player has been selected into the HHOF before they retire their jersey.
But I agree with you on Naslund, why he is up there I'll never know!
I'll disagree with you on the first point, a lot of franchises wait until a player has been selected into the HHOF before they retire their jersey.
But I agree with you on Naslund, why he is up there I'll never know!
I say this ALL the time about retiring numbers, but it's the best example in sport:
The Boston Red Sox ALWAYS wait (with the only exception for Johnny Pesky, who was basically Boston's version of Tommy Lasorda in being a part of the organization for over 40 years) for a player to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. In addition, they must have played at least 10 years for the club. In my opinion, in all of professional sports, they set the ultimate standard of a team retiring numbers.
Note that their criteria says nothing about winning the World Series (insert loser joke here lol). It's all well and good to bring home a championship, but if a player continually shed all his blood, sweat and tears for the team and greatly contributed to baseball to the point of HoF induction, I am surely retiring his number!
It's all well and good to retire players who have become basically part of the bloodwork of the franchise, but a team has to be careful not to retire too many of these kind of players - the standard must be kept high. I'm aware that "the standard" is relative for the team retiring the number and for a younger franchise wanting to create a positive legacy, and I'm still on the fence about Naslund's number being retired.
And I'm still on the fence about some of the players that the Hockey Hall of Fame chooses to induct... But baseball has it easier because, for the better part of a century, there has pretty much been only one country in the world that played it competitively. Hockey has other variables - other national leagues, men and women's hockey, players blocked to the NHL by communism but had great careers in their respective leagues, etc. (and for baseball, there's also the Negro League to consider too, but since I don't know too much about it, I won't presume to offer an opinion beyond it being unconscionable to segregate based on colour)
Long post, sorry, but I think you all get the idea
Naslund should not have had his number retired at all. Bure should have been retired faster. I guess it might have to do with how his relationship with the Canucks ended.
Naslund should not have had his number retired at all. Bure should have been retired faster. I guess it might have to do with how his relationship with the Canucks ended.
Imo, there's no way Naslund is in Bure's league.
I guess its good that Jersey Retirements are based off what players did for the Franchise, their stats, charitable work in the city...etc & not player comparisons.
Why is it that this site can't just say the positive? Why is there the need to get into the negative & drag down Naslund? Both players made contributions to Franchise & City, both deserve to have their numbers in our Rafters.
If you have Smyl up there you should have Naslund up there. It's sad to see so many Canuck fans forget where our franchise was before Naslund came along. He put this team on his back and put it back on the map again. I've had this argument way too many times and it's unfortunate that people still don't get it.
By the way, Naslund was the leader for the Canucks in so many statistical categories(more than Bure), was the captain and played here for 12 years. How can you say Bure should have his number retired and Naslund shouldn't?
A few days ago on Sportsnet Pacifc somone from the Vancouver Sun was on and said he didn't believe it that the Canucks were going to retire Bure's number. He said the way Mike Gillis does things it's a team decision to do something like that and if it's true then Francesco Aquilini wanted to do this without discussing it with Gillis.
A few days ago on Sportsnet Pacifc somone from the Vancouver Sun was on and said he didn't believe it that the Canucks were going to retire Bure's number. He said the way Mike Gillis does things it's a team decision to do something like that and if it's true then Francesco Aquilini wanted to do this without discussing it with Gillis.
Gillis removed himself from the decision making process since he was Bure's agent. There's a 3 person panel that makes decisions for jersey retirements.
The original story probably got leaked in part because they wanted to gauge public reaction to a jersey retirement.
Clearly fans haven't been around long enough to remember what GM Place/Rogers Arena attendance was like during the Messier Era. The highlight of most nights was knowing that though the Canucks were getting spanked, Donald Brashear would toast someone.
This was pretty much a team on the brink of collapsing. You know at the time you could have your pick of tickets to the games?
You have Naslund to thank for helping bringing it to the state it is in today, and keeping the team in Vancouver. This is in a non-cap era when the Canucks couldn't compete salary wise with the likes of NYR/DET/COL.
Clearly fans haven't been around long enough to remember what GM Place/Rogers Arena attendance was like during the Messier Era. The highlight of most nights was knowing that though the Canucks were getting spanked, Donald Brashear would toast someone.
This was pretty much a team on the brink of collapsing. You know at the time you could have your pick of tickets to the games?
You have Naslund to thank for helping bringing it to the state it is in today, and keeping the team in Vancouver. This is in a non-cap era when the Canucks couldn't compete salary wise with the likes of NYR/DET/COL.
Clearly you don't remember or weren't around during the 80's before Linden and Bure arrived on the scene. Bure came around when the franchise was in jeopardy of leaving town, Bure almost singlehandedly saved the franchise and led them to a game seven of the Stanley Cup finals. There was an established fan base by the time Naslund rolled around but the Nucks were so missmanaged people stayed away. Naslund did not save the franchise, regardles of what you may think.
He was a very good player for the Canucks, no question. He had four very good years out of his eleven with the team. But not enough to retire his number IMO...that's just the way I feel. When the Canucks moved into GM Place and iced a better team money became less of an issue for sure.
