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North Bay Battalion 2016-17 Season Thread

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Old
03-22-2017, 06:41 PM
  #701
belair
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Originally Posted by MartyHuggins View Post
Although he won a championship in his rookie season in the WHL, Kris Knoblauch will be considered a bust in Erie if he doesn't win the championship this year, although leading Erie to 50+ wins the past 4 seasons!!!
Erie has had the fortune of housing some household names in recent years. Him not winning a championship while McDavid was on that roster is mind-boggling. People are using the championship stance like there is some kind of parity in the OHL. There isn't.

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03-22-2017, 06:46 PM
  #702
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No offence I have been going to North Bay for years for work, of all the cities I do business in the North> Northbay is a tough place to do business, not sure what it is? Hockey is a hugh in Northbay and have an excellent minor hockey program.

The city did help a lot to renovate the arena, even through some controversy, so can't blame the city for not supporting team, I think they were key in bringing it here.

I think its tough economic times , and I believe the Battalion marketing is to blame. 3yr STH deal, is a big commitment, not everyone has that disposable income to take advantage of that deal. Ownership, needs to open their eyes why NB came 20th in attendance, and make it more attractive and affordable for fans to come. It is only show in town, it should be at full capacity but at the right price.
Agreed the economy is to blame but I think their marketing in North Bay is too timid. If they advertised more in the city there'd be more walk-ups.

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03-22-2017, 07:10 PM
  #703
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Erie has had the fortune of housing some household names in recent years. Him not winning a championship while McDavid was on that roster is mind-boggling. People are using the championship stance like there is some kind of parity in the OHL. There isn't.
TWELVE different teams have won the J. Ross Robertson Trophy as the OHL Playoff Champion the last 18 years. It is not like a couple of teams win them all.

London x4
Windsor, Guelph, Kitchener x2 EACH
Oshawa, Owen Sound, Plymouth, Peterborough, Erie, Belleville, Barrie & Ottawa X1 EACH

Most say the parity in the NHL is bad. Yet there have been ELEVEN different teams win the Stanley Cup the last 18 times it was awarded. That is less than the OHL.

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03-22-2017, 07:28 PM
  #704
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Agreed the economy is to blame but I think their marketing in North Bay is too timid. If they advertised more in the city there'd be more walk-ups.
good point need to spend money to make money, be more proactive in selling the brand to the community.

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03-22-2017, 07:33 PM
  #705
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TWELVE different teams have won the J. Ross Robertson Trophy as the OHL Playoff Champion the last 18 years. It is not like a couple of teams win them all.

London x4
Windsor, Guelph, Kitchener x2 EACH

Oshawa, Owen Sound, Plymouth, Peterborough, Erie, Belleville, Barrie & Ottawa X1 EACH

Most say the parity in the NHL is bad. Yet there have been ELEVEN different teams win the Stanley Cup the last 18 times it was awarded. That is less than the OHL.
The bolded is pretty self explanatory. If you don't think the teams like London/Guelph/Kitchener/Windsor don't have a competitive advantage in comparison to other smaller markets in this league, I just don't know what to tell you.

Elite players don't forego US college scholarships to play in Barrie. They don't demand trades to Sudbury.

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03-22-2017, 08:03 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
The bolded is pretty self explanatory. If you don't think the teams like London/Guelph/Kitchener/Windsor don't have a competitive advantage in comparison to other smaller markets in this league, I just don't know what to tell you.

Elite players don't forego US college scholarships to play in Barrie. They don't demand trades to Sudbury.
And yet Barrie has an OHL Championship during Stan Butlers years in the OHL. If I go back a couple more years, North Bay has one too!

You can defend Stan Butler all you want and you can blame the league for being unfair but the reality is Butler has not won and has not been head hunted to any of those supposed HAVE teams. There is a reason.

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03-22-2017, 08:49 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by OMG67 View Post
And yet Barrie has an OHL Championship during Stan Butlers years in the OHL. If I go back a couple more years, North Bay has one too!

You can defend Stan Butler all you want and you can blame the league for being unfair but the reality is Butler has not won and has not been head hunted to any of those supposed HAVE teams. There is a reason.
His 'boring' system? Please. I'm not even defending the guy. I'm supporting the fact that certain posters are putting far too much weight into the influence his coaching has on the success of his team.

Skilled teams win championships. If your players aren't good, your team won't be good.

Even that Barrie team from '00 was stacked with higher end players that season in a year where high-end talent in the OHL was sparse. Although none of them turned into much beyond their junior years outside of one ending up a convicted felon, that team had three of the top 10 scorers in the league that season and three first round NHL draft picks. The Battalion have had zero 1st round picks since moving to North Bay. In that time they've won six playoff series and been to one Championship Final. Do you think they've done that despite him?

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03-22-2017, 08:52 PM
  #708
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Agreed the economy is to blame but I think their marketing in North Bay is too timid. If they advertised more in the city there'd be more walk-ups.
Au contraire.

The North Bay media outlets should be advertising with the Battalion according to some.

Honestly one of the funniest things I've heard in a while.

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03-22-2017, 09:19 PM
  #709
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Coaching? What coaching? Defensive specialist? Lol. This team lost so many games this year due to having the worst defence in the league, and not because the players are bad but because it was brutally obvious that they weren't taught even the most basic tactics I.e. Pick up the trailing man on odd man rush, etc. Teams picked the defence apart due to a lack of basic fundamentals that is primarily the coaches job for the players to be accountable in that regard. Was same last year but had Smitty to bail them out.

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03-22-2017, 09:42 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by View from section 9 View Post
Au contraire.

The North Bay media outlets should be advertising with the Battalion according to some.

Honestly one of the funniest things I've heard in a while.
What's that?

The Battalion do zero advertising throughout the city from what I've seen.

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03-22-2017, 10:41 PM
  #711
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What's that?

The Battalion do zero advertising throughout the city from what I've seen.
This is a serious question. Not trying to be a 'tard. In a smaller town like North Bay, why would the team need to advertise at all? They are competing with the Movie Theatre for entertainment dollars. It is not like they would need to be kept in the forefront of the minds of the people in North Bay.

If they have a consistent schedule for home games, it should become habit forming.

Either there are hockey fans that want to see that product or there isn't. Either there is enough disposable income in North Bay or there isn't. Spending a hundred grand on news print media isn't going to net them anything worth while.

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03-22-2017, 11:08 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by OMG67 View Post
This is a serious question. Not trying to be a 'tard. In a smaller town like North Bay, why would the team need to advertise at all? They are competing with the Movie Theatre for entertainment dollars. It is not like they would need to be kept in the forefront of the minds of the people in North Bay.

If they have a consistent schedule for home games, it should become habit forming.

Either there are hockey fans that want to see that product or there isn't. Either there is enough disposable income in North Bay or there isn't. Spending a hundred grand on news print media isn't going to net them anything worth while.
Because there isn't sufficient awareness of the team in North Bay.

If you let a hundred people know there's a hockey game that night, there might be a few who consider going to it.

There are other methods of advertising than print media as well. Personally I wouldn't even consider it.

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03-22-2017, 11:46 PM
  #713
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Because there isn't sufficient awareness of the team in North Bay.

If you let a hundred people know there's a hockey game that night, there might be a few who consider going to it.

There are other methods of advertising than print media as well. Personally I wouldn't even consider it.
That is sort of my point tho. It is not about advertising specific games on the schedule. It is about raising awareness of the hockey team in general. That can be done for free with the players doing promotional work in schools and in minor hockey (for example). If there is awareness regarding the team, then you need some sort of regular game night for home games. Do some contra deals with popular sports bars and restaurants for sponsorship and create partnerships. So, when it is Saturday night and people think about what they want to do, Saturday night is a normal home night. It enters the decision making process.

Then it is about providing a good product. A good product doesn't have to be a winning product. IT has to be a product people want to watch. Look at the Leafs this year. They may or may not make the playoffs but their games are fun to watch.

To me, being in a small market is much easier than a large market. People will always support the local team because it is part of the fabric of the community. Look at Owen Sound. They are awesome. The Colts have been solid for the most part. Belleville needed upgrades to the rink but the City wouldn't pony up. Otherwise they'd have been fine too.

Treat the fan base with respect and give them a solid product that is entertaining to watch. In smaller communities, people will come.

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03-23-2017, 12:06 AM
  #714
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Originally Posted by OMG67 View Post
That is sort of my point tho. It is not about advertising specific games on the schedule. It is about raising awareness of the hockey team in general. That can be done for free with the players doing promotional work in schools and in minor hockey (for example). If there is awareness regarding the team, then you need some sort of regular game night for home games. Do some contra deals with popular sports bars and restaurants for sponsorship and create partnerships. So, when it is Saturday night and people think about what they want to do, Saturday night is a normal home night. It enters the decision making process.

Then it is about providing a good product. A good product doesn't have to be a winning product. IT has to be a product people want to watch. Look at the Leafs this year. They may or may not make the playoffs but their games are fun to watch.

To me, being in a small market is much easier than a large market. People will always support the local team because it is part of the fabric of the community. Look at Owen Sound. They are awesome. The Colts have been solid for the most part. Belleville needed upgrades to the rink but the City wouldn't pony up. Otherwise they'd have been fine too.

Treat the fan base with respect and give them a solid product that is entertaining to watch. In smaller communities, people will come.
There certainly is that aspect of their promotion but obviously those methods and simple word of mouth isn't sufficiently putting butts in the seats. You're getting those 2,000 or so dedicated fans each night but they obviously need to change something to move the needle. You can't rely on 'support the home team'. Just because people support it doesn't necessarily mean that team is on their mind all of the time. Advertisements provide that visual and put a date and time in their (potential) customer's mind.

I don't doubt other communities do it better. If you asked the average person 35+ in North Bay about the Battalion, many of them would probably mention the arena project going over budget five years after the fact.

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03-23-2017, 12:25 AM
  #715
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
There certainly is that aspect of their promotion but obviously those methods and simple word of mouth isn't sufficiently putting butts in the seats. You're getting those 2,000 or so dedicated fans each night but they obviously need to change something to move the needle. You can't rely on 'support the home team'. Just because people support it doesn't necessarily mean that team is on their mind all of the time. Advertisements provide that visual and put a date and time in their (potential) customer's mind.

I don't doubt other communities do it better. If you asked the average person 35+ in North Bay about the Battalion, many of them would probably mention the arena project going over budget five years after the fact.
If something like the arena budget going over is what is hampering acceptance for the team then the battle is surely uphill.

I still think in small communities if Saturday night is Battalion night then you've won the battle. If you need to constantly reach people to sell tickets on a game by game basis, you are in loads of trouble. It costs a lot of money and resources to pull people in game by game.

The Brand needs to be first and foremost in the community. It needs to be the place to be and needs to be what is discussed at work on Monday's.

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03-23-2017, 12:55 AM
  #716
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Originally Posted by OMG67 View Post
If something like the arena budget going over is what is hampering acceptance for the team then the battle is surely uphill.

I still think in small communities if Saturday night is Battalion night then you've won the battle. If you need to constantly reach people to sell tickets on a game by game basis, you are in loads of trouble. It costs a lot of money and resources to pull people in game by game.

The Brand needs to be first and foremost in the community. It needs to be the place to be and needs to be what is discussed at work on Monday's.
It's all how people view the team though. The team didn't overspend on the arena project, the city did. The Battalion need to endear themselves to the community IMO. They need to be 'North Bay's Team'. Not necessarily a re-branding but a re-focus. Despite the playoff runs that still hasn't really happened yet.

And I don't think junior hockey will ever be 'the place to be' for anyone out there in the 18-65 demographic but it's definitely 'a place to be'.

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03-23-2017, 07:18 AM
  #717
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I am of the belief that in a few years, the market in North Bay will be stable enough to endure the cycle f junior hockey. As such, they will be supported more than well enough in the down years. When that time comes, the loyal fan base will want more than what you are referring to. Their frustration will grow when they rarely see it further than the 2nd round f the playoffs for a decade or more.

When that time comes, the fans will turn on Butler.

It is very likely that given the opportunity and Stan Butler's age, he will surpass Brian Kilrea as the winningest coach in Major Junior Hockey history. I think he may reach that point in about 10 years. He will hold that title but will not have one Championship to back it up.
Just to let you know, the fans have already turned on Butler. The evidence was the game against Sudbury when John Dean was behind the bench, the team played incredible. Most hockey fans here are very knowledgeable and have accepted Butlers defense first, dump & chase hockey for the first 3 years, but as the declining STD numbers will continue to show, they don't care for this style of hockey and they will only attend the games on an individual basis and select the teams they want to see. The problem here is Abbott will still get his money even though the numbers drop. He is guaranteed a threshold line and anything below that the City has to pay. Does he have to worry about marketing his team ? NO ! It was a terrible deal made by the City at the time. Also, there is no out clause so Abbott can leave anytime he wants, leaving the City with a white elephant on Chippewa street and a debt of $5 million owed to Abbott.

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