We all know his intent, his intent was to Smash Zetterberg's face into the glass and anyone who has gotten past 3 years old knows what the outcome of that action is. If this is the argument that you are hanging on to, just let go.
So I just watched Shanny's explanation of a 3-game suspension to Shaw for charging Phoenix goaltender, Mike Smith, and hitting the head.
Shanny points out that Shaw has no priors, thus a first time offender. Smith was not injured on the play and remained in the game.
How does this differ from the Weber-Z incident? Z was not injured, Weber was a first-time offender, but the head was hit (and rather deliberately bashed into a pane of glass by Weber).
What am I missing?
Shanny doesn't have to prove that he isn't baised towards Phoenix. But that is a bit of a joke, the hit didn't even look intentional. It looked like he was trying to get around Smith and there was just not enough space.
Shaw with 3 games. Asham got four. Neal only got 1 game for charging at one guy and hitting him in the head, and elbowing Giroux in the head.......
Weber = $2500
NHL is a joke this playoff season.
Shaw suspension was bad. But it was a legit head shot on a goalie.
Asham four games... he can credit NBC's reaction for that. They acted like it was the worst hit in the history of the world. It wasn't delivered in the adam's apple. It was in the upper chest. IMO, this suspension is worth a game. But since it's Asham and he has a history, he's getting 5.
Neal didn't elbow Giroux as far as I can tell. Again, more hysterics from NBC, who did their best to sensationalize every inch of that game. Neal's hit on the other kid wasn't a charge so much as it was hitting someone who was nowhere near the puck. 1 game is fine.
The NHL's discipline is questionable at times.
The insane, ridiculous preoccupation with it by fans and the media is a far more serious problem for the game.
This is a league where the NHL network spends more time talking about hits and suspensions than it does on the goals and assists.
Oh, there was Hagelin suspension, was it 3 games for the hit on Alfie?
@CB. Seems like you're trying too hard. I'm trying to find some common theme or reasoning. I actually like Epsilon's answer, but even that doesn't quite capture it.
Something stinks in Holland... or however the hell Shakespeare penned it. It's too late and I'm off to bed.
@CB. Seems like you're trying too hard. I'm trying to find some common theme or reasoning. I actually like Epsilon's answer, but even that doesn't quite capture it.
Something stinks in Holland... or however the hell Shakespeare penned it. It's too late and I'm off to bed.
What stinks is that the league has totally handed 100 percent of the game's policework to the league.
And that was never going to work.
Honestly, when Hossa gets smoked, or Zetterberg gets smoked, someone needed to be there right at that moment with fists flying -- and no protection from officials. And without fear of instigators and suspensions.
It takes a balanced approach like anything else.
The #1 reason why I've never crosschecked anyone in the teeth while playing hockey (despite being angry enough to do it a few times). Fear of death.
Not sure what you mean.
Why are hits and suspensions the most controversial things about every game?
Why does JR spend more time lecturing players about respect than he does talkng about what a beast Danny Briere is?
I know the answer to it. But do you?
There's a segment of the fanbase that are more concerned with fights, hits, "nastiness", etc. and scoring goals, saves, and the other technical aspects of hockey. Look no further than a thread on the playoffs board started by a Wings fan (and not in reaction to the result of tonight's game, before then) complaining about how boring the series with Nashville is because it's solid, well-played hockey rather than the gong show in Pennsylvania. So it shouldn't be surprising that segments of the media are also discussing those sorts of topics more than the scoring highlights.
There's a segment of the fanbase that are more concerned with fights, hits, "nastiness", etc. and scoring goals, saves, and the other technical aspects of hockey. Look no further than a thread on the playoffs board started by a Wings fan (and not in reaction to the result of tonight's game, before then) complaining about how boring the series with Nashville is because it's solid, well-played hockey rather than the gong show in Pennsylvania. So it shouldn't be surprising that segments of the media are also discussing those sorts of topics more than the scoring highlights.
A little bit of nastiness is a good thing for a series. I was glad to see Franzen get angry and involved last game. But alas, the Wings can't sustain that kind of emotion.
In my opinion, this series isn't boring because it lacks passion, it's boring because these teams play a boring style
At one point in the third period of today's game, I couldn't understand why I was even watching. The passing was brutal. The shooting was from the boards. Giveaways everywhere.
This is overcoached, defensive hockey. There's no room. It bores the crap out of most people—me included,
But my point about the media pre-occupation is that they feel the need to spend their time showing a hit 10x (of course, they show it, like porn) and then they get all high and mighty about the lack of respect in the game.
They spend more time criticizing the players, or questioning calls, or highlighting the trumped up controversies than they do telling us about the game.
Every hockey league I know of, even the most recreational, has a couple guys who can't help themselves. They throw elbows, get their sticks in, hit considerably harder than acceptable levels...
And in competitive leagues? People are always pushing each other to escalate.
It doesn't much matter that it's a beer league. When a guy gets under your skin and you're ready to hammer him, you ask yourself, do I really want to do what comes next if I do it?
If the answer is yes, all power to you.
Fire away.
I simply can't imagine clocking a guy in the teeth in my beer league game. I used to clock guys with my blocker routinely, back when it was competitive, so I kind of get it. But I'm a goalie, so I tend to ponder universe **** back there like Bryz.
There's a segment of the fanbase that are more concerned with fights, hits, "nastiness", etc. and scoring goals, saves, and the other technical aspects of hockey. Look no further than a thread on the playoffs board started by a Wings fan (and not in reaction to the result of tonight's game, before then) complaining about how boring the series with Nashville is because it's solid, well-played hockey rather than the gong show in Pennsylvania. So it shouldn't be surprising that segments of the media are also discussing those sorts of topics more than the scoring highlights.
I think the term "toughness" gets bastardized by the brawl-hungry crowd that watches hockey. Toughness shouldn't enitrely fists to faces but it definitely makes for exciting hockey when the time calls for it. Pens-Flyers has gotten out of control but that's because one team is clowning the other on the ice and it's turned into a show of frustration from the Pens and any issue those two teams have had recently has boiled over into unadulterated hatred. It's now a legitimate feud between those two.
From a Wings perspective, has fighting really been needed in this series? I appreciated Bertuzzi answering the bell in Game 2 but it also came off as a token effort to settle the score that the league refused to take stiff enough action against Weber. While it wasn't some incredible fight or show of absolute vengeance from Bertuzzi, it at least was a decent response to the Wings best player in this series getting his coconut cracked against the glass. If the league suspended Weber for a game or two, would the fight had been necessary? I don't think it would've happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob
What stinks is that the league has totally handed 100 percent of the game's policework to the league.
They should concern themselves with player safety but not get in the middle of two teams just not liking each other. Punish the punishable hits but allow teams settle their dislike within the rules of the sport. Two guys fighting doesn't equal a decline in Western civilization but I also think the league shouldn't deter the opportunity of retribution the old-fashioned way by a player doing something on the edge of dirty or unsportsmanlike and having to answer for it via a honest one-on-one fight.
A pet peave of many now is the idea of clean hard hits drawing the ire of players more now than before and leading to unnecessary retaliation. Legal clean hard body checks shouldn't trigger a brawl because a guy gets his pride bruised a bit. Defending a teammate is understandable but a clean physical hockey play shouldn't be reacted to negatively any worse than a guy scoring a goal. Teams should be able to stand up for themselves when the situation calls for it. I would expect a guy like Shanahan to respect "the code" when he was in the middle of one of the great rivalries when he was with the Wings. How many cries for suspensions were made during the heart of the Wings-Avs rivalry outside of the Lemieux hit on Draper?
In my opinion, this series isn't boring because it lacks passion, it's boring because these teams play a boring style At one point in the third period of today's game, I couldn't understand why I was even watching. The passing was brutal. The shooting was from the boards. Giveaways everywhere.
This is overcoached, defensive hockey. There's no room. It bores the crap out of most people—me included,
There were several times during the reg season where I had the same reaction. Everything the Wings do has been boiled down to one template. If we can see it, why can't other coaches? (Hence the predictability and uselessness of the PP.)
Quote:
But my point about the media pre-occupation is that they feel the need to spend their time showing a hit 10x (of course, they show it, like porn) and then they get all high and mighty about the lack of respect in the game.
They spend more time criticizing the players, or questioning calls, or highlighting the trumped up controversies than they do telling us about the game.
I think this is part of it, along with something below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalzie
I think the term "toughness" gets bastardized by the brawl-hungry crowd that watches hockey. Toughness shouldn't enitrely fists to faces but it definitely makes for exciting hockey when the time calls for it.
...
From a Wings perspective, has fighting really been needed in this series? I appreciated Bertuzzi answering the bell in Game 2 but it also came off as a token effort to settle the score that the league refused to take stiff enough action against Weber. While it wasn't some incredible fight or show of absolute vengeance from Bertuzzi, it at least was a decent response to the Wings best player in this series getting his coconut cracked against the glass. If the league suspended Weber for a game or two, would the fight had been necessary? I don't think it would've happened.
Exactly how I see it. Going back to Naslund-Moore, the league did nothing because its rules were still open to interpretation which was heavily leaning towards allowing hitting of any kind. A scrub takes out a team captain, who ends up with a concussion, and that's supposed to be okay? CB has a point that in the old days, Moore would have been clobbered on the next shift by the team's version of Probert.
Quote:
They should concern themselves with player safety but not get in the middle of two teams just not liking each other. Punish the punishable hits but allow teams settle their dislike within the rules of the sport. Two guys fighting doesn't equal a decline in Western civilization but I also think the league shouldn't deter the opportunity of retribution the old-fashioned way by a player doing something on the edge of dirty or unsportsmanlike and having to answer for it via a honest one-on-one fight.
A pet peave of many now is the idea of clean hard hits drawing the ire of players more now than before and leading to unnecessary retaliation. Legal clean hard body checks shouldn't trigger a brawl because a guy gets his pride bruised a bit. Defending a teammate is understandable but a clean physical hockey play shouldn't be reacted to negatively any worse than a guy scoring a goal. Teams should be able to stand up for themselves when the situation calls for it. I would expect a guy like Shanahan to respect "the code" when he was in the middle of one of the great rivalries when he was with the Wings. How many cries for suspensions were made during the heart of the Wings-Avs rivalry outside of the Lemieux hit on Draper?
I have the same peeve. Stuart got mauled by some bruiser (was it St Louis?) for a clean check. Guy has never thrown anything resembling a controversial/borderline/dirty hit since he's been here. Yet he gets the crap beaten out of him for the reason you mention above. If the Wings had had a Probie kind of guy, that bruiser would have to think twice about going after someone who wasn't a known agitator or enforcer himself.
CB is right that the league has decided to get rid of the player policing side of things, a Code that they ALL understand, while it is completely ineffective and bordering on absurd in its own efforts to police things. There are too many examples of screw ups, including Cooke and the careers he ended, the Isles making a mockery of the league last year (and I understand why they did it), Lucic/Weber/Chara incidents (e.g., any star). This season has been the worst however.
I believe a little humor may be in order, given the way the series has gone so far and the Weber vs Z shenanigans. This blog is probably on the radar for many of our esteemed and snarky posters, but I just stumbled on to it the other day. The creator is a Leafs fan, and his post from 4/17 on Bettman's playoff pool draft is *** comedy gold! Related to this thread, quite a few shots are taken at Shanny. Definitely a good time!!
I think the term "toughness" gets bastardized by the brawl-hungry crowd that watches hockey. Toughness shouldn't enitrely fists to faces but it definitely makes for exciting hockey when the time calls for it. Pens-Flyers has gotten out of control but that's because one team is clowning the other on the ice and it's turned into a show of frustration from the Pens and any issue those two teams have had recently has boiled over into unadulterated hatred. It's now a legitimate feud between those two.
I don;t think the Pens-Flyers are out of control.
I think the whining media is out of control.
Controversy sells, so the media blows everything out of proportion.
Quote:
From a Wings perspective, has fighting really been needed in this series? I appreciated Bertuzzi answering the bell in Game 2 but it also came off as a token effort to settle the score that the league refused to take stiff enough action against Weber.
That was silly.
The Wings needed to answer it RIGHT WHEN IT HAPPENED, when you still have the anger boiling in your blood.
Quote:
While it wasn't some incredible fight or show of absolute vengeance from Bertuzzi, it at least was a decent response to the Wings best player in this series getting his coconut cracked against the glass. If the league suspended Weber for a game or two, would the fight had been necessary? I don't think it would've happened.
Coincidentally, that was the only game Detroit won.
Quote:
They should concern themselves with player safety but not get in the middle of two teams just not liking each other. Punish the punishable hits but allow teams settle their dislike within the rules of the sport. Two guys fighting doesn't equal a decline in Western civilization but I also think the league shouldn't deter the opportunity of retribution the old-fashioned way by a player doing something on the edge of dirty or unsportsmanlike and having to answer for it via a honest one-on-one fight.
If guys want to be dirty, that's life. Call them.
Quote:
A pet peave of many now is the idea of clean hard hits drawing the ire of players more now than before and leading to unnecessary retaliation.
My pet peeve is that this people continue to say this. Clean hits, if they hurt, or look designed to hurt, have always drawn a crowd,
Vladdie was mostly a clean hitter. Every fighting, almost, that he was involved him started with him delivering a clean hit.
Quote:
Legal clean hard body checks shouldn't trigger a brawl because a guy gets his pride bruised a bit.
Should the Kronwall-Voracek hit trigger a brawl? Obviously, Voracek had his head down. But it was hardly a "body check"
Players on the ice get to decide at that moment if they think someone crossed a line trying to deliver a hit.
Quote:
Defending a teammate is understandable but a clean physical hockey play shouldn't be reacted to negatively any worse than a guy scoring a goal.
A clean physical hit can put you of the lineup for a season.
A clean physical hit can still be an attempt to injure.
You think that because there's no penalty, that a guy shouldn't stand up for himself when someone tries to injure him?
Quote:
I would expect a guy like Shanahan to respect "the code" when he was in the middle of one of the great rivalries when he was with the Wings. How many cries for suspensions were made during the heart of the Wings-Avs rivalry outside of the Lemieux hit on Draper?
People in Detroit love Shanny. But he's got a reputation as being two-faced and being an attention *****.
When Shanny suspended Wisniewski for all those games, I knew he was in trouble and throwing his own understanding of the game out the window.
I simply can't imagine clocking a guy in the teeth in my beer league game. I used to clock guys with my blocker routinely, back when it was competitive, so I kind of get it. But I'm a goalie, so I tend to ponder universe **** back there like Bryz.
I believe a little humor may be in order, given the way the series has gone so far and the Weber vs Z shenanigans. This blog is probably on the radar for many of our esteemed and snarky posters, but I just stumbled on to it the other day. The creator is a Leafs fan, and his post from 4/17 on Bettman's playoff pool draft is *** comedy gold! Related to this thread, quite a few shots are taken at Shanny. Definitely a good time!!
Player to watch: David Backes will be tasked with shutting down Joe Thornton, which he plans to do by following him around while occasionally pointing at a calendar that reads "April".
I believe a little humor may be in order, given the way the series has gone so far and the Weber vs Z shenanigans. This blog is probably on the radar for many of our esteemed and snarky posters, but I just stumbled on to it the other day. The creator is a Leafs fan, and his post from 4/17 on Bettman's playoff pool draft is *** comedy gold! Related to this thread, quite a few shots are taken at Shanny. Definitely a good time!!
