Agree with basically everything PocketNines said in his above post.
The myths about Hitch aren't going to go away until we've had our rookies come through. The issues that Hitch has with players is, and always has been, about effort. If a young guy is in the team, he has to be responsible in all areas, or a least make a clear effort. If he isn't going to, then he won't make it under Hitch.
There are a lot of players that think their offensive skills give them a pass, to an extent, on the defensive side of the game, and he won't put up with that either.
Neither apply to Tarasenko. If Tarasenko lives up to his potential, then his style is pretty damn close to what Hitch would see as perfect from a first line winger.
But more on the post I just quoted, which is also false. You said he could terminate his contract unilaterally in the KHL. In the KHL a player can't just leave one team with whom he signed a contract and go play for another KHL team. Same in the NHL. He can't leave one NHL team while under contract and play for a different NHL team. If he decided to leave the NHL and go back to Russia, as plenty of players have done just walking out when they become disgruntled, the NHL team doesn't simply lose his rights, but neither is he prevented from playing in the KHL once he returns. The very fact that we've been talking about which KHL club will retain his KHL rights even when he's in the NHL tells you that the club who owns those rights owns something valuable. If he could unilaterally walk out on those rights, why would it even matter to KHL teams who had his KHL rights?
You missed the whole point of the post.
Point 1 - Tarasenko has stated that Olympics > NHL. Therefore, he'd be very smart to hold off on signing an NHL contract until the olympic participation is verified in the new CBA.
Point 2 - A player CANNOT unilaterally walk-away from an NHL contract and play in the KHL. This violates the "NHL/KHL respect for contract agreement" brokered by the IIHF.
A player CAN unilaterally terminate his KHL contract (by paying 3/4 remaining salary) thereby becoming a RFA.....hence making it legal to sign with an NHL team. This is what Radulov did.
Point 1 - Tarasenko has stated that Olympics > NHL. Therefore, he'd be very smart to hold off on signing an NHL contract until the olympic participation is verified in the new CBA.
Point 2 - A player CANNOT unilaterally walk-away from an NHL contract and play in the KHL. This violates the "NHL/KHL respect for contract agreement" brokered by the IIHF.
A player CAN unilaterally terminate his KHL contract (by paying 3/4 remaining salary) thereby becoming a RFA.....hence making it legal to sign with an NHL team. This is what Radulov did.
You are right about waiting until the Olympic participation is verified, but everyone knows it will be. It is a card the NHL plays to pretend it is giving something of value up to the NHLPA. It is a slight inconvenience for the NHL, nothing more.
Your second point is meaningless. Paying 3/4 of remaining salary can be a hell of a lot of money, meaning it is prohibitive unless you have very little time remaining on the contract. Signing a KHL contract still realistically locks him into playing the KHL for every year of the deal.
You are right about waiting until the Olympic participation is verified, but everyone knows it will be. It is a card the NHL plays to pretend it is giving something of value up to the NHLPA. It is a slight inconvenience for the NHL, nothing more.
Your second point is meaningless. Paying 3/4 of remaining salary can be a hell of a lot of money, meaning it is prohibitive unless you have very little time remaining on the contract. Signing a KHL contract still realistically locks him into playing the KHL for every year of the deal.
Yeah, I agree. But still, olympics in home country is a once in a life time event (and likely the pinnacle of Tarasenko's hockey dreams), so I wouldn't sign anything that even had a 1% chance of preventing that from happening.
But in terms of 'choices', an NHL contract ties his hands more than a KHL one does.....especially when it comes to international tournaments, or if he doesn't like NA or whatever. He's really at the mercy of the Blues organization.
But saying that, I really don't see him not signing with St. Louis. I'm just throwing some potential obstacles out there to think about.
I am kind of confused by some of your thought processes. Tarasenko made it clear that Olympic Gold means more to him than the cup. Because of that statement many of you believe he will stay in KHL until after Sochi. My question is why do you think that? Russia's team will be comprised of 90% NHL players including the likes of Malkin, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and the list goes on and on. The only issue is the NHL has not made it clear they will allow players to go over there. I do not see this happening, the players want to play for their countries and will do so without the NHL's permission. Other than the CBA issue I don't see why staying over there could increase his chance for making the Olympic roster. He has already proved to be a dominant player over there and if he comes here he solidifies himself with the best guys that will be on other Olympic Teams. Please explain to me why him staying will make any difference on whether or not he makes the Russian Squad..
I am kind of confused by some of your thought processes. Tarasenko made it clear that Olympic Gold means more to him than the cup. Because of that statement many of you believe he will stay in KHL until after Sochi. My question is why do you think that? Russia's team will be comprised of 90% NHL players including the likes of Malkin, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and the list goes on and on. The only issue is the NHL has not made it clear they will allow players to go over there. I do not see this happening, the players want to play for their countries and will do so without the NHL's permission. Other than the CBA issue I don't see why staying over there could increase his chance for making the Olympic roster. He has already proved to be a dominant player over there and if he comes here he solidifies himself with the best guys that will be on other Olympic Teams. Please explain to me why him staying will make any difference on whether or not he makes the Russian Squad..
I don't think many people think he will remain in the KHL because of the Olympics. The point that Zine was making is that he should wait until the new CBA confirms that players will be released for the Olympics.
If the NHL didn't release players to play, then anyone who left would likely lose 20%-25% of their pay check for the season. That won't happen though, it is just a formality that the NHL confirms participation.
The Olympics is a big argument for why Tarasenko will come over for next season.
I am kind of confused by some of your thought processes. Tarasenko made it clear that Olympic Gold means more to him than the cup. Because of that statement many of you believe he will stay in KHL until after Sochi. My question is why do you think that? Russia's team will be comprised of 90% NHL players including the likes of Malkin, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk and the list goes on and on. The only issue is the NHL has not made it clear they will allow players to go over there. I do not see this happening, the players want to play for their countries and will do so without the NHL's permission. Other than the CBA issue I don't see why staying over there could increase his chance for making the Olympic roster. He has already proved to be a dominant player over there and if he comes here he solidifies himself with the best guys that will be on other Olympic Teams. Please explain to me why him staying will make any difference on whether or not he makes the Russian Squad..
I know Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, etc. are saying they'll play regardless; but per IIHF rules, they legally can't without the permission of their respective NHL teams. All NHL teams have to do is suspend them for leaving. Any player suspended by his domestic league is automatically ineligible for IIHF competition. So if NHL participation is NOT in the new CBA, these guys are up **** creek.
Saying that, it's very unlikely that the NHL won't participate, but at least staying in the KHL ensures 100% he'll be able to participate........playing in the NHL does not.
Thanks guys, that clears a lot up. I was unaware if suspended by domestic league you are ineligible for IIHF play. Last question, could teams allow players to play without suspension or are teams forced to suspend players in that situation?(Situation-opting to play in Olympics when CBA doesn't allow it)
You have to wonder what the Blues will do with Tarasenko if he indeed does decide to stay in russia for yet another year. Will they trade his rights? Or will they hold on to him? Hmmmm
You have to wonder what the Blues will do with Tarasenko if he indeed does decide to stay in russia for yet another year. Will they trade his rights? Or will they hold on to him? Hmmmm
Unless we are offered an insane package, there is no chance we move Tarasenko. No reason to move elite level potential when we are having success without him. We would get terrible value, and Tarasenko has made it clear he sees his future in the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by schronote
Thanks guys, that clears a lot up. I was unaware if suspended by domestic league you are ineligible for IIHF play. Last question, could teams allow players to play without suspension or are teams forced to suspend players in that situation?(Situation-opting to play in Olympics when CBA doesn't allow it)
I wondered the same thing, the only potential issues I could see are insurance issues.
You have to wonder what the Blues will do with Tarasenko if he indeed does decide to stay in russia for yet another year. Will they trade his rights? Or will they hold on to him? Hmmmm
Why would they ever trade his rights if there is fear of him never coming over at best we could get a 2nd round pick. I would much rather have the hopes of him coming over then a 2nd to mid round pick.....
There is a 0% chance they would trade his right if he stays over another season.
Unless we are offered an insane package, there is no chance we move Tarasenko. No reason to move elite level potential when we are having success without him. We would get terrible value, and Tarasenko has made it clear he sees his future in the NHL.
Agreed. This shouldn't even be a question, unless the Blues had inside knowledge that Tarasenko wasn't interested in the NHL at all. The Blues have the luxury of waiting for him. He's still only 20 years old. He's only going to get better - definitely worth the wait, even if we have to wait another 2-3 years (don't see him taking that long, however).
I'm optimistic he will come over this summer. The way I rate the pro's and con's if I'm Tank.
Pro's:
1) He had huge success in the KHL this year. He pretty much dominated the competition. Unless he wants to stay b/c he wants to win an MVP or a Championship, I don't see what more he can get out of playing in that league.
2) The NHL is where he has always claimed he wants to be.
3) His body is probably as NHL ready as it's going to get.
4) The Blues have been a successful team this year, AND they obviously have a spot in the top 6 for him thanks to Chris Stewart not working out the way everyone intended, AND they are just beginning to peak with all the young players they have.
Con's:
1) Money/Pressure. Obviously the KHL can throw huge sums of money at a 20 year old that the NHL can't. Also, they might tell him if he wants to play in the Olympics in 2014, he needs to stay in Russia. I think that's a bit over the top, but you never know.
2) It's his home.
3) The CBA. I am a little nervous that they have yet to begin talks on a new CBA, and if the two sides drag it out or can't come to an arrangement, Tank might just take the sure money in the KHL for one more year.
4) Blues ownership. Nuff said.
I think as long as the CBA and Blues ownership gets worked out sooner rather then later, we will see him in a Bluenote. But if either of those two things hit substantial snags, I see him sticking in Russia, and perhaps trying to gain some credit towards playing in the Olympics.
I'm optimistic he will come over this summer. The way I rate the pro's and con's if I'm Tank.
Pro's:
1) He had huge success in the KHL this year. He pretty much dominated the competition. Unless he wants to stay b/c he wants to win an MVP or a Championship, I don't see what more he can get out of playing in that league.
2) The NHL is where he has always claimed he wants to be.
3) His body is probably as NHL ready as it's going to get.
4) The Blues have been a successful team this year, AND they obviously have a spot in the top 6 for him thanks to Chris Stewart not working out the way everyone intended, AND they are just beginning to peak with all the young players they have.
Con's:
1) Money/Pressure. Obviously the KHL can throw huge sums of money at a 20 year old that the NHL can't. Also, they might tell him if he wants to play in the Olympics in 2014, he needs to stay in Russia. I think that's a bit over the top, but you never know.
2) It's his home.
3) The CBA. I am a little nervous that they have yet to begin talks on a new CBA, and if the two sides drag it out or can't come to an arrangement, Tank might just take the sure money in the KHL for one more year.
4) Blues ownership. Nuff said.
I think as long as the CBA and Blues ownership gets worked out sooner rather then later, we will see him in a Bluenote. But if either of those two things hit substantial snags, I see him sticking in Russia, and perhaps trying to gain some credit towards playing in the Olympics.
Good assessment, but what does Blues ownership have to do with Tarasenko's decision to sign/not sign? I'm not seeing the apparent obvious here (help! haha).
I doubt that The NHL CBA will be a factor in Tarasenko's decision. ANY international player considering playing in The NHL will know (at the very least-through his agent) that The NHL owners and players CANNOT afford to come to the irrational decision to not reach a compromise before the season starts (or, at the very worst), after only a handful of games is lost.
Not reaching an agreement would be an unmitigated disaster for The NHL, so soon after the last lockout.
Since this will probably go over 1000 posts in the next 24 hours when the moderators will be busy doing other things, I'm preemptively starting Part III.
