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Old
07-17-2017, 08:39 PM
  #51
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The Devils would still be trading for a defenseman who would be way past his prime by the time they are competitive.

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07-17-2017, 08:48 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
He just turned 29 in March . . .
Oh, my god, I'm so sorry I got his age wrong by 1 year. How exactly does that change the point I just made? (It doesn't)

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07-17-2017, 09:11 PM
  #53
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I put a premium on defensemen. I'll keep EJ. Hall is a good piece. I just think EJ is more valuable to Colorado. I think him mentoring the young guys is paramont. Adding Zadorov to the proposal is a bit absurd.

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07-17-2017, 10:07 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Its a Trap View Post
Oh, my god, I'm so sorry I got his age wrong by 1 year. How exactly does that change the point I just made? (It doesn't)
I'm just letting you know what the facts are so you can be informed. People are talking about EJ like he's a few years from retirement. He's a veteran top pairing defenseman signed for 6 more years at a good cap hit. He's big, athletic, and skilled - I see no reason to think he'll be a significantly worse player at 31/32, when he'll still have 3 years left on his deal while there no guarantee that Hall will even still be a Devil.

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Old
07-18-2017, 07:51 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
Just because we have different opinions doesn't mean I lack comprehension. I provided justification for why I feel the way I do. Can you comprehend that?
It's your very comprehension and justifications that I question, almost every single time you post something on the trade board.

Your value assessments are always way, way off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
Ok, I guess I was wrong when people were calling the Hall for Larsson trade a steal and I said Hall would struggle to carry the team to a respectable record and Larsson would be a huge boost to Edmonton.


Kudos for being the only person who called that the Oilers, who added a complementary defenseman to an already stacked team, would be a better team than the Devils, who were, by all accounts, still terrible despite adding Hall.

I wish I could live in your reality.

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07-18-2017, 07:53 AM
  #56
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This trade is awful.

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Old
07-18-2017, 11:40 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
I'm just letting you know what the facts are so you can be informed. People are talking about EJ like he's a few years from retirement. He's a veteran top pairing defenseman signed for 6 more years at a good cap hit. He's big, athletic, and skilled - I see no reason to think he'll be a significantly worse player at 31/32, when he'll still have 3 years left on his deal while there no guarantee that Hall will even still be a Devil.
Getting his age wrong by 1 year is not being uninformed. You see no reason not to trade for a guy that literally goes against everything Shero is building towards because he plays defense. He's big and he's athletic and he's never topped 40 points in his career and he hasn't played a full season in 4 years. Sorry but if we're trading for a top pairing defenseman, it's not the 29 year old who doesn't put up 40+ points and doesn't play the entire season.

"skilled" HA

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07-18-2017, 11:40 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfan118 View Post
It's your very comprehension and justifications that I question, almost every single time you post something on the trade board.

Your value assessments are always way, way off.
You don't think having a top pairing defenseman for 6 years is worth more than a top line winger for 3? Especially when we've taken forwards with our last 3 first round picks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devilsfan118 View Post


Kudos for being the only person who called that the Oilers, who added a complementary defenseman to an already stacked team, would be a better team than the Devils, who were, by all accounts, still terrible despite adding Hall.

I wish I could live in your reality.
I certainly wasn't the only person to not like this trade for the Devils, and I never claimed to be. But I was absolutely in the overwhelming minority at the time.

At the time of the trade, countless people thought Hall would come in and dominate the Eastern conference and the Devils would be better offensively. Unfortunately, neither of those things happened - Hall wasn't even able to outright lead the team in points or goals, and the Devils actually scored 3 less goals than the prior year, yet allowed 37 more.

So Hall didn't really help us enough to offset to huge hole that trading Larsson left. But I guess my value assessment of that trade was "way, way off".

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07-18-2017, 11:44 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
You don't think having a top pairing defenseman for 6 years is worth more than a top line winger for 3? Especially when we've taken forwards with our last 3 first round picks?



I certainly wasn't the only person to not like this trade for the Devils, and I never claimed to be. But I was absolutely in the overwhelming minority at the time.

At the time of the trade, countless people thought Hall would come in and dominate the Eastern conference and the Devils would be better offensively. Unfortunately, neither of those things happened - Hall wasn't even able to outright lead the team in points or goals, and the Devils actually scored 3 less goals than the prior year, yet allowed 37 more.

So Hall didn't really help us enough to offset to huge hole that trading Larsson left. But I guess my value assessment of that trade was "way, way off".
I'm sorry, but your points are literally terrible. The team was ******* this year. Cammalleri was a joke, Palmieri and Henrique were brutal for most of the season, and the rif-raf that was thrown into the lineup was basically done to ridiculously make us tank the season. The only point you have correct is that the Loss of Larsson had a much greater impact on the defense then Hall had on the offense and color me shock at that being true considering the state the team is in.

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07-18-2017, 11:48 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Its a Trap View Post
Getting his age wrong by 1 year is not being uninformed. You see no reason not to trade for a guy that literally goes against everything Shero is building towards because he plays defense. He's big and he's athletic and he's never topped 40 points in his career and he hasn't played a full season in 4 years. Sorry but if we're trading for a top pairing defenseman, it's not the 29 year old who doesn't put up 40+ points and doesn't play the entire season.

"skilled" HA
The guy has scored 39 points twice, but lol at measuring a defenseman on his point totals, especially considering the team he plays for. He's also played 70+ pro games in 6 out of 8 full seasons - Hall's only done so in 3 out of 6 full seasons.

I honestly don't think many teams would trade a young top pairing 40+ point defenseman for our injury prone one dimensional 60 point winger who has never played a playoff game and will be 26 in November.

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07-18-2017, 11:54 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
The guy has scored 39 points twice, but lol at measuring a defenseman on his point totals, especially considering the team he plays for. He's also played 70+ pro games in 6 out of 8 full seasons - Hall's only done so in 3 out of 6 full seasons.

I honestly don't think many teams would trade a young top pairing 40+ point defenseman for our injury prone one dimensional 60 point winger who has never played a playoff game and will be 26 in November.
"lol at measuring a defenseman on his point totals"

Did you not just call him a #1 defenseman? What do #1 defenseman do? They play great defense and they put up great points. A defenseman who is only great defensively and average offensive point totals is not a #1.

Or do you not realize you're contradicting yourself?

"He's played 70+ pro games in 6 of 8 seasons"

I mean this is just a flat out stupid statement because you're wrong. It's 5 times and those 3 seasons are in the last 5 years.

He's never even scored 40 points. Stop calling him a 40 point defenseman.

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Old
07-18-2017, 11:56 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
The guy has scored 39 points twice, but lol at measuring a defenseman on his point totals, especially considering the team he plays for. He's also played 70+ pro games in 6 out of 8 full seasons - Hall's only done so in 3 out of 6 full seasons.

I honestly don't think many teams would trade a young top pairing 40+ point defenseman for our injury prone one dimensional 60 point winger who has never played a playoff game and will be 26 in November.
That's fine. You don't trade Larsson for Hall, then Hall for a defenseman who also has had injury filled seasons which you conveniently failed to mention.

Hall is part of the core going forward. We're lucky to have him.

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Old
07-18-2017, 01:08 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
I honestly don't think many teams would trade a young top pairing 40+ point defenseman for our injury prone one dimensional 60 point winger who has never played a playoff game and will be 26 in November.
  • if EJ's career high of 39pt means he's a 40+ player then Hall, by the exact same logic, is a point per game player
  • i don't see how Hall turning 26 is used as an argument against him when you're in favor of someone who's 29 ("young"? prime, but not young)
  • Hall is clearly injury prone i won't argue against that, but since he's entered into the league (10-11 season) he's played more games than EJ


Last edited by BHD: 07-18-2017 at 01:17 PM. Reason: referring to the post as trolling
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Old
07-18-2017, 01:32 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Its a Trap View Post
"lol at measuring a defenseman on his point totals"

Did you not just call him a #1 defenseman? What do #1 defenseman do? They play great defense and they put up great points. A defenseman who is only great defensively and average offensive point totals is not a #1.

Or do you not realize you're contradicting yourself?
You'll have to show me where I said he's a #1 defenseman. Might want to work on that reading comprehension. Considering I never said that, the rest of the above is pure strawman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Its a Trap View Post
"He's played 70+ pro games in 6 of 8 seasons"

I mean this is just a flat out stupid statement because you're wrong. It's 5 times and those 3 seasons are in the last 5 years.
I count 6, but its actually in 9 seasons (missed 08-09)
2007-08 70 pro games (1 in AHL)
2009-10 79gp
2010-11 77gp
2011-12 73gp
2013-14 80gp
2015-16 73gp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Its a Trap View Post
He's never even scored 40 points. Stop calling him a 40 point defenseman.
Hard to stop calling him a 40 point defenseman when I never did in the first place. Again, reading comprehension. Its not that hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtdevils2k View Post
That's fine. You don't trade Larsson for Hall, then Hall for a defenseman who also has had injury filled seasons which you conveniently failed to mention.
Well I didn't make that trade and was against it when it happened. So my position in this thread is consistent with my opinion over a year ago. If you read the thread, I did mention his injury concerns - both he and Hall are quite prone to injury, so its essentially a wash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evnted View Post
  • if EJ's career high of 39pt means he's a 40+ player then Hall, by the exact same logic, is a point per game player
  • i don't see how Hall turning 26 is used as an argument against him when you're in favor of someone who's 29 ("young"? prime, but not young)
  • Hall is clearly injury prone i won't argue against that, but since he's entered into the league (10-11 season) he's played more games than EJ
I never said he was a 40+ point player.

I mentioned Hall's age because he really isn't all that much younger than EJ, especially considering forwards peak earlier (as we've seen with Hall). There aren't any reasonable teams who are going to trade a young-ish top pairing 40+ point defenseman for Hall. Just ask Chiarelli.


Last edited by BHD: 07-18-2017 at 01:59 PM.
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Old
07-18-2017, 01:37 PM
  #65
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I'll say this - we don't have the best track record with keeping offensive stars when they enter UFA. If Taylor Hall is to be believed, he cares most about winning. If we aren't looking to be doing that in 2-3 years I don't think it would shock anybody if he signed with a perceived contender.


Last edited by BHD: 07-18-2017 at 01:57 PM. Reason: qdp
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Old
07-18-2017, 01:56 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
The guy has scored 39 points twice, but lol at measuring a defenseman on his point totals, especially considering the team he plays for. He's also played 70+ pro games in 6 out of 8 full seasons - Hall's only done so in 3 out of 6 full seasons.

I honestly don't think many teams would trade a young top pairing 40+ point defenseman for our injury prone one dimensional 60 point winger who has never played a playoff game and will be 26 in November.
your first statement explicitly refers to EJ. there is absolutely nothing that indicates statement two switches focus from EJ. you might not have meant it to be read that way, but the juxtaposition of those two comments implies the entire post is alluding to EJ. these many posters aren't misreading your argument, you're misrepresenting it.

in any case, you also glossed over the other 2/3 of my rebuttal


Last edited by BHD: 07-18-2017 at 01:59 PM. Reason: qep
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Old
07-18-2017, 01:58 PM
  #67
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Enough with the bickering and get back to discussing the trade.

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07-18-2017, 02:06 PM
  #68
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Enough with the bickering and get back to discussing the trade.
lol darn my recent post doesn't make nearly as much sense now that the part i was referring to was edited out. in any case, i agree NJ needs a huge defensive upgrade, but i'd rather hedge my bets on drafting a solid D prospect next year and trade less of an asset (than Hall) for a top 4 D. i would also prefer to trade for someone who's a bit further from turning 30 than EJ

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07-18-2017, 02:23 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evnted View Post
your first statement explicitly refers to EJ. there is absolutely nothing that indicates statement two switches focus from EJ. you might not have meant it to be read that way, but the juxtaposition of those two comments implies the entire post is alluding to EJ. these many posters aren't misreading your argument, you're misrepresenting it.

in any case, you also glossed over the other 2/3 of my rebuttal
Except for the fact that I described the hypothetical player as a "young defenseman", which EJ obviously is not.

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07-18-2017, 02:25 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
You'll have to show me where I said he's a #1 defenseman. Might want to work on that reading comprehension. Considering I never said that, the rest of the above is pure strawman.
Lol, you're right you haven't, I guess we have a different opinion of what a top-pairing defenseman is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
I count 6, but its actually in 9 seasons (missed 08-09)
2007-08 70 pro games (1 in AHL)
2009-10 79gp
2010-11 77gp
2011-12 73gp
2013-14 80gp
2015-16 73gp
AHL games don't count. So, no your point is still wrong.

Quote:
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Hard to stop calling him a 40 point defenseman when I never did in the first place. Again, reading comprehension. Its not that hard.
So are you saying in that post of yours that was ENTIRELY about Erik Johnson, your last sentence you are not talking about Erik Johnson?

If so, you're being intentionally misleading then in an attempt to counter any argument made against you. Which is a very you thing to do. It's your MO really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
Well I didn't make that trade and was against it when it happened. So my position in this thread is consistent with my opinion over a year ago. If you read the thread, I did mention his injury concerns - both he and Hall are quite prone to injury, so its essentially a wash.
This is a stupid post because Hall has been more healthy over the last 5 seasons then Johnson by far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyYourTheDevils View Post
I never said he was a 40+ point player.

I mentioned Hall's age because he really isn't all that much younger than EJ, especially considering forwards peak earlier (as we've seen with Hall). There aren't any reasonable teams who are going to trade a young-ish top pairing 40+ point defenseman for Hall. Just ask Chiarelli.
He's much younger then EJ. He's 26. That's 3 years younger. In 3 years Johnson is in his 30s while Hall is not. That's quite a difference that you, once again, seem to like to minimize to make your own points sound better.

But, yes, Lets ask Chiarelli, the man who was eviscerated for said trade. Good idea!

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Old
07-18-2017, 02:26 PM
  #71
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dion phanuef for tylor hall

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Old
07-18-2017, 02:31 PM
  #72
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Except for the fact that I described the hypothetical player as a "young defenseman", which EJ obviously is not.
Talk about talking in circles.

If the mods want to stop the bickering, the might as well just lock the thread. The trade discussion is done, it's just the same dude derailing yet another thread.

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07-18-2017, 02:34 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Its a Trap View Post
Lol, you're right you haven't, I guess we have a different opinion of what a top-pairing defenseman is.



AHL games don't count. So, no your point is still wrong.



So are you saying in that post of yours that was ENTIRELY about Erik Johnson, your last sentence you are not talking about Erik Johnson?

If so, you're being intentionally misleading then in an attempt to counter any argument made against you. Which is a very you thing to do. It's your MO really.


This is a stupid post because Hall has been more healthy over the last 5 seasons then Johnson by far.



He's much younger then EJ. He's 26. That's 3 years younger. In 3 years Johnson is in his 30s while Hall is not. That's quite a difference that you, once again, seem to like to minimize to make your own points sound better.

But, yes, Lets ask Chiarelli, the man who was eviscerated for said trade. Good idea!


Last edited by Devilsfan118: 07-18-2017 at 02:41 PM.
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Old
07-18-2017, 02:42 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Devilsfan118 View Post
Talk about talking in circles.

If the mods want to stop the bickering, the might as well just lock the thread. The trade discussion is done, it's just the same dude derailing yet another thread.
This seems to be the case.

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