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Who is this years best defence man so far?

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Old
01-17-2014, 12:25 PM
  #101
Bluelines
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[QUOTE=hotpaws;78191181]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Nylund View Post
Well put! The fact that no rebuttal has been posted speaks for itself. QUOTE]

Posters have explained how flawed these advanced stats are and how they've been taken out of context but they get continually ignored so i'm not interested in continually having to post something that already been said .

I'll asked you question however , considering Gunner has very similar advanced stats as DP has why do I keep reading he's in over his head playing on the first pair yet these same people are praising DP and saying he's among the elite defensive D in the league this year .

I work with statistics every day, it is my job to compile, analyse and translate into normal people language so everyone in the company understands. In my experience looking at just one data point can make you think something is what it is not in reality. With data you need to look at multiple data points, multiple angles before you get a clear picture. A singular advance stat by itself can be misleading but multiple different calculations tell you something is something, there is a very high chance something is something.

I'm quite confident that the stats I used in the original post paint a very clear picture.

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Old
01-17-2014, 12:26 PM
  #102
Hockey Talker29
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Anyone who doesn't think Phaneuf has been our best defenseman is out to lunch. It's obvious visually, and statistically.

After him it gets more difficult. I personally think Gardiner has been the second best. He's only a -2, which is impressive, seeing as how he has spent most of his season paired with Franson (-12) who has been brutal defensively.

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01-17-2014, 12:50 PM
  #103
Gary Nylund
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Originally Posted by notdoneyet View Post
Dont get me worng I hope that we win a gold medal BUT I have no faith in
our goaltending. Sorry but if we get to the quarter finals and
Price or Luongo or whoever shats the bed then we are out of a medal.


To many galies on the other teams rask,quick,lundquist etc have the ability to steal
a game while facing a lot of shots/


As you say our goaltending is probably fourth best and in a one game
for a medal shot ourchances are not great. Same with our juniors, if you look we dominate at forward but again our goaltendng is not strong. There are not a lot of strong canadian golatenders in the league.
If the goalies totally f..k up sure but there's no reason to expect that. I agree that Rask and Quick (Lundquist slumping so who knows) can steal games but Canada is so strong, they shouldn't need their goalies to steal games.

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Originally Posted by Bluelines View Post
Absolutely agree, if you get by him he has basically zero ability to recover but the key thing is you have to get by him first. The reason why he is so effective against the 1st lines is because he excels in the dirty areas, which is where most good/great goal scorers need to go to be effective.
And that's why he's a lot better on NHL ice then on Olympic ice and why people who keep saying "but he didn't make Team Canada" should just stop.


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Originally Posted by bunjay View Post
The same can be said of any team. And Rask and Quick won't be playing behind the incredible defensive machines they have in front of them in the NHL. Lundqvist is so far on a season-long slump. There's no reason to think that Price or Luongo are any more likely to collapse and lose a game than any other goalie going to the Olympics.
Exactly. An average performance by the goalies should be sufficient.

[QUOTE=Bluelines;78200765]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
I work with statistics every day, it is my job to compile, analyse and translate into normal people language so everyone in the company understands. In my experience looking at just one data point can make you think something is what it is not in reality. With data you need to look at multiple data points, multiple angles before you get a clear picture. A singular advance stat by itself can be misleading but multiple different calculations tell you something is something, there is a very high chance something is something.

I'm quite confident that the stats I used in the original post paint a very clear picture.
I couldn't agree more. That's why I hate it when someone posts some statistic to support their agenda when it's obvious that that one statistic is misleading. That is nothing more than intellectual dishonesty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Talker29 View Post
Anyone who doesn't think Phaneuf has been our best defenseman is out to lunch. It's obvious visually, and statistically.

After him it gets more difficult. I personally think Gardiner has been the second best. He's only a -2, which is impressive, seeing as how he has spent most of his season paired with Franson (-12) who has been brutal defensively.
Yup. Who needs stats. Watch some games and there is no argument whatsoever. When people say stuff like he just stands in front of his own net ... well it's obvious taht they either don't watch the games and are making stuff up, or they just hate Phaneuf for some reason or they just don't understand what they're watching. Either was when someone says dumb stuff like that their credibility goes down the tubes.

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01-17-2014, 12:59 PM
  #104
HarrisonFord
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Is anyone else concerned with how prevalent Leaf players are in the top 10 for defensive zone starts?

Means we must be having a lot of defensive zone starts as a team in general. Indicative of being outplayed.

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01-17-2014, 01:04 PM
  #105
GordieHoweHatTrick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonFord View Post
Is anyone else concerned with how prevalent Leaf players are in the top 10 for defensive zone starts?

Means we must be having a lot of defensive zone starts as a team in general. Indicative of being outplayed.
Its been mentioned before and conveniently ignored.

The offensive zone starts stat needs to be adjusted for each team to get a clearer picture. Some teams start 55% of the time in the offensive zone, others 45% of the time. You need to adjust the numbers so every team is at 50% and adjust each individual accordingly. Only then can you compare everyone on the same terms.

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01-17-2014, 01:07 PM
  #106
Cap'n Flavour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonFord View Post
Is anyone else concerned with how prevalent Leaf players are in the top 10 for defensive zone starts?

Means we must be having a lot of defensive zone starts as a team in general. Indicative of being outplayed.
Last time I checked, the Leafs start about 43% of their non-neutral zone faceoffs in the offensive zone. So yes, they do have far more d-zone faceoffs than they should.

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Old
01-17-2014, 01:55 PM
  #107
Bluelines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarrisonFord View Post
Is anyone else concerned with how prevalent Leaf players are in the top 10 for defensive zone starts?

Means we must be having a lot of defensive zone starts as a team in general. Indicative of being outplayed.
Shots on goal and defensive zone starts are good indication of possession time, which can indicate that we are being consistently outplayed.

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