So it's blatenly obvious that you want the Isles in Queens or Brooklyn probably because it's better for you. Perhaps easier for you to get ot the games or what ever.
Your stetment however pretty much makes your creditbilty meaningless. The building has nothing to do with the on ice product. No player has evr come out saying they did not sign with the Isles because of the building. Moving to Brooklyn or anywhere else for that matter, dosen't mean Wang spends more on the on ice product. In reality, it means he probably just pockets more and claims he's still losing money like he does now.
I am glad you dream of them coming closer to you for your benefit, but the bottom line is that for a fan base that is mostly Long Island and and a good portion of Suffolk County based, a move to Queens or Brooklyn means less attendance because people are not going to make the hike in. Getting to Barcly's is not easy coming from the East.
I know that hurts, but reality is what it is.
What potvins4cups said. I want NYI in Bklyn/Queens because it's better for the franchise. Assuming it's for personal reasons is defensive and silly and you don't know where I'm from.
Forbes latest listing shows NYI yet again last in revenue league wide because of the arena with not enough luxury suites or corporate support etc. Lowest revenue leads to lowest payroll and has everything to do with the on ice product.
If you think quality veteran players want to play in a dumpy asbestos filled half empty building like NVMC that produces little revenue where they get ignored then I have a bridge to sell you right near the Barclay's arena.
Who is to say Wang will be owner if NYI move to Bklyn or Queens? And if he is, logic dictates he'll spend on payroll with more revenue as he did in 2001-2002 on the hope of a new arena on LI which he was lied to about.
You're basically saying the franchise with league low attendance for many years has a chance to move to an arena near mass transit, corporate support, media and access to a bigger potential fanbase, something their current arena lacks, yet they shouldn't because it might impact their league low attendance? Got it.
You appear to want NYI to stay close to only where you live and failure to continue but they belong elsewhere for the reasons I've given.
So in words you can relate to, your statement pretty much makes your credibility meaningless.
So it's blatenly obvious that you want the Isles in Queens or Brooklyn probably because it's better for you. Perhaps easier for you to get ot the games or what ever.
Your stetment however pretty much makes your creditbilty meaningless. The building has nothing to do with the on ice product. No player has evr come out saying they did not sign with the Isles because of the building. Moving to Brooklyn or anywhere else for that matter, dosen't mean Wang spends more on the on ice product. In reality, it means he probably just pockets more and claims he's still losing money like he does now.
I am glad you dream of them coming closer to you for your benefit, but the bottom line is that for a fan base that is mostly Long Island and and a good portion of Suffolk County based, a move to Queens or Brooklyn means less attendance because people are not going to make the hike in. Getting to Barcly's is not easy coming from the East.
I know that hurts, but reality is what it is.
A successful future for this franchise IS NOT on LI proper or Nassau specifically. Nassau doesn't care about NYI. They’ve twice said NO via public AND private funded building and can’t support a franchise successfully with a history of poor attendance except when cups are won. Weeknight attendance on LI sucks except for playoff games. At best, they’d only do the minimum in renovations to just keep the team without enough revenue for it to thrive in Nassau. Nassau has no money for a new arena. Suffolk is too far away as NYI get ignored now so moving further east just magnifies it with no attention, no media coverage and too far for working commuters from NYC. Weeknight games would still see a half empty arena in Suffolk win or lose.
Queens is the best option IMO as much of the current fanbase can be retained, new access to fans from NYC, Jersey, Conn and Westchester plus NYC media, mass transit, corporate support and highways right there.
Brooklyn is next best because of new access to fans from NYC, Jersey, Conn and Westchester plus NYC media, mass transit, corporate support, 7 minutes from the financial capital of the world and it’s close enough for many of the few existing diehards left in the NY area to go. Not as good as Queens but not bad and financially very good.
A renovated arena only on LI solves NOTHING. NYI are the KC Royals/Pitt Pirates of hockey. They’d still suck with a renovated/new arena only because they’re small market. The money just isn’t there and the revenue streams wouldn’t be enough to matter due to lack of corporate support and below value returns on luxury boxes etc. The suburban model DOES NOT work. (Look at the teams that had to leave the suburbs)
At best on LI, all they could ever hope to be is the Nashville Predators who can win a playoff round maybe 2 with a small payroll but never actually be contenders to win the Cup and 4 playoff rounds.
LI doesn’t work. It hasn’t worked for 20 years since the NHL became big business and free agency. The dynasty happened before the NHL was big business with reasonable salaries where revenue didn’t matter as much. You can’t win without revenue. Non NYI revenue that Wang gets now from NVMC won’t support NYI as it has it’s own expenses. The current lease which still loses Wang money isn’t guaranteed post 2015. Not that there is an viable arena anyway.
The ONLY real hope at present is Brooklyn or out of state. Take your pick.
The meeting, which included about 30 politicians, park officials and other city representatives, was the first full discussion at the trust about the possibility of building a soccer stadium on the 14.5-acre pier at Houston Street, which now has several soccer fields and long-term parking...
Though M.L.S. has several designs, any stadium at Pier 40 would take up about nine acres, seat 20,000 to 25,000 fans and include youth soccer facilities. Trying to expand the size of the pier would probably be very problematic for environmental and political reasons.
Before anything happens many significant hurdles must be cleared, including repairing the dilapidated pier, which could cost about $100 million; finding money to build a stadium; and winning over skeptics who park at the pier and use the existing soccer fields. M.L.S. also has to find an owner for the new team.
M.L.S. has looked at 19 sites in New York City and has narrowed its list to about half a dozen. The league would like to zero in on a single location in the next few months. M.L.S. prefers that its teams play in easily accessible locations like Manhattan’s West Side. If Pier 40 is not feasible, M.L.S. will focus on other potential sites, including Flushing Meadows Park in Queens.
Isles may want to hurry up IF they want to get a new stadium of their own (given the limitations of the Barclays). An advantage of a multi purpose arena is that it can be used for 200 times a year whereas a soccer stadium is pretty much useless for non soccer events.
And you're a long island resident that doesn't want them to leave because it's convenient for you. so you can make that argument from both ends of the spectrum. i live 10 minutes from the coliseum. but i unlike you and a few others. i atleast have come to the realization that nassau doesn't want the team. they have proven they could care less about the islanders. and there are alot more rangers fans on long island than there are islander fans so what does that say about long island's two counties? long island residents had a chance to voice their opinion and they voted a resounding NO!!!!! to keeping the team on long island.
You and others make this statement to give credit to one side - Wang.
The referendum INCREASED PROPERTY TAXES. They voted THAT down.
Get some owner in with a PLAN and one that can be financed without hurting localities and it happens. One Wang idea meant more traffic and school construction. One meant taxes went up. Neither passed. So?
Does it mean the folks don't want the team? Not in the least.
They just see taxes and quality of life get worse and worse and the Isles, through Wang's doing or not, are caught in the crosshairs of residents' ire.
If you put forth a plan where taxes went down, a referendum passes with ease. Jobs, money coming in and taxes go down or remain the same, even, it passes.
You can't be oblivious to that. Fan passion has to be removed in this debate. If Brooklyn meant more fans, it'd be great. Just the seating sucks and the commute and parking and ticket prices would suck. Queens could be great! Well, unless it meant seat prices doubled. I doubt they would, but we're looking at all aspects. Nassau? Wang would essentially OWN the arena and make more money. If he SOLD, the other two are great! But hey, the stubborn POS likely won't sell. We all know he wants real estate and will sell for naught unless he wins in Nassau, whether now or in 2019 or 2030.
But let's not blame the 70 year old paying crooked criminal scum Nassau pols $16,000 on her home every year because they can't STOP SPENDING if the 70 year old, in his/her home they owned for 50 years decides they don't want to pay MORE taxes.
Would you go from $16,000 to $20,000 to see a rushed prospect brigade selecting fourth yet again? Might as well vote NO and buy season tickets.
What potvins4cups said. I want NYI in Bklyn/Queens because it's better for the franchise. Assuming it's for personal reasons is defensive and silly and you don't know where I'm from.
Forbes latest listing shows NYI yet again last in revenue league wide because of the arena with not enough luxury suites or corporate support etc. Lowest revenue leads to lowest payroll and has everything to do with the on ice product.
If you think quality veteran players want to play in a dumpy asbestos filled half empty building like NVMC that produces little revenue where they get ignored then I have a bridge to sell you right near the Barclay's arena.
Who is to say Wang will be owner if NYI move to Bklyn or Queens? And if he is, logic dictates he'll spend on payroll with more revenue as he did in 2001-2002 on the hope of a new arena on LI which he was lied to about.
You're basically saying the franchise with league low attendance for many years has a chance to move to an arena near mass transit, corporate support, media and access to a bigger potential fanbase, something their current arena lacks, yet they shouldn't because it might impact their league low attendance? Got it.
You appear to want NYI to stay close to only where you live and failure to continue but they belong elsewhere for the reasons I've given.
So in words you can relate to, your statement pretty much makes your credibility meaningless.
The reason players do not want to play here is MAINLY because the Islanders have not won a playoff round since 1993 and incompetent ownership. Not because of the condition of the Coliseum.
It doesn't matter what we think. What matters is what the league and owner think.
Personally, I'd go watch them in a high school arena if it gets them the hell out of nassau.
No you have no agenda at all. Comments like this as well as the constant personal attacks on the people and politicians of Nassau (or Nassore as you alway wrote, including vulgar sexual references to Kate Murray) plus the fact that you have consistently reported incorrect/exaggerated facts to promote your points (3K current season ticket holders etc etc.) show you are just about stretching the truth any way to get them to an area that is preferential to you. Your comments are often very personal and not about what is best for the team. I am not a fan of Kate Murray or what she did with the hub(I did not vote for her specifically for that reason), the vote was represented as a tax increase by a group that wanted the rights themselves to build there. The vote was against the tax increase and the politicians not the Islanders. There are plenty of people who love the team in Nassau/Suffolk, the players here seem to love the area. The reason revenue is so low is due to the on ice product for 20 years, a poor lease and poor stadium conditions. How many people in here say they will not pay a dime to Wang due to his poor ownership and the building, don't you think that has some impact? If they built a solid NHL rink in Nassau, Queens or Suffolk with the team steadily progressing, revenue will not be an issue. SMG will be out and the economy, which affects everyone not just Nassau, will recover at some point.
I don't like barclays because of the structure of the building and I know what problems will be associated with the mass transit (i have presented this argument previously so won't go into the debate here at this time). If I felt it was a good landing point for permanent location, I would be on board despite the fact it is difficult for me to get to. I like Queens which would be more difficult for me to get to. I still see all options as on the table and don't intend to personally insult or rule out any area until it is done.
There are plenty of barclays supporters who comment respectfully with facts. Personal attacks don't do the argument justice.
Last edited by 19 in a row: 04-12-2012 at 09:35 AM.
You and others make this statement to give credit to one side - Wang.
The referendum INCREASED PROPERTY TAXES. They voted THAT down.
Get some owner in with a PLAN and one that can be financed without hurting localities and it happens. One Wang idea meant more traffic and school construction. One meant taxes went up. Neither passed. So?
Does it mean the folks don't want the team? Not in the least.
They just see taxes and quality of life get worse and worse and the Isles, through Wang's doing or not, are caught in the crosshairs of residents' ire.
If you put forth a plan where taxes went down, a referendum passes with ease. Jobs, money coming in and taxes go down or remain the same, even, it passes.
You can't be oblivious to that. Fan passion has to be removed in this debate. If Brooklyn meant more fans, it'd be great. Just the seating sucks and the commute and parking and ticket prices would suck. Queens could be great! Well, unless it meant seat prices doubled. I doubt they would, but we're looking at all aspects. Nassau? Wang would essentially OWN the arena and make more money. If he SOLD, the other two are great! But hey, the stubborn POS likely won't sell. We all know he wants real estate and will sell for naught unless he wins in Nassau, whether now or in 2019 or 2030.
But let's not blame the 70 year old paying crooked criminal scum Nassau pols $16,000 on her home every year because they can't STOP SPENDING if the 70 year old, in his/her home they owned for 50 years decides they don't want to pay MORE taxes.
Would you go from $16,000 to $20,000 to see a rushed prospect brigade selecting fourth yet again? Might as well vote NO and buy season tickets.
I got news for you. and you have mentioned in the past that you no longer live on long island. so of course you wouldn't know anyway. BUT!!! politcians who were against the referendum used the "YOUR PROPERTY TAXES WILL GO UP IF YOU VOTE FOR THE REFERENDUM" excuse to have everyone vote no.
well guess what? MY NASSAU PROPERTY TAXES RECENTLY WENT UP ANYWAY!!! so once again the politicians of nassau county have lied and screwed us in the wallet and at the same time have screwed us out of long islands only professional sports franchise staying on long island.
The reason players do not want to play here is MAINLY because the Islanders have not won a playoff round since 1993 and incompetent ownership. Not because of the condition of the Coliseum.
I got news for ya. they certainly won't want to play at the coliseum now with all the reports about the asbestos problem. even if the islanders were to offer a player who doesn't deserve it a $10 million dollar a year contract that player will think twice about it because of the asbestos issue.
plus the fact that you have consistently reported incorrect/exaggerated facts to promote your points (3K current season ticket holders etc etc.) show you are just about stretching the truth any way to get them to an area that is preferential to you.
Thats not a lie my friend. you can email botta and he will confirm it. the season ticket holder number is around 3000. facts are facts regardless of how you wish them to be wrong.
The reason players do not want to play here is MAINLY because the Islanders have not won a playoff round since 1993 and incompetent ownership. Not because of the condition of the Coliseum.
And a big reason NYI has not won a playoff round since 1993 is a low payroll from low revenue from an antiquated arena.
Again, Forbes latest listing shows NYI yet again last in revenue league wide because of the arena with not enough luxury suites or corporate support etc. Lowest revenue leads to lowest payroll and has everything to do with the on ice product.
No you have no agenda at all. Comments like this as well as the constant personal attacks on the people and politicians of Nassau (or Nassore as you alway wrote, including vulgar sexual references to Kate Murray) plus the fact that you have consistently reported incorrect/exaggerated facts to promote your points (3K current season ticket holders etc etc.) show you are just about stretching the truth any way to get them to an area that is preferential to you. Your comments are often very personal and not about what is best for the team. I am not a fan of Kate Murray or what she did with the hub(I did not vote for her specifically for that reason), the vote was represented as a tax increase by a group that wanted the rights themselves to build there. The vote was against the tax increase and the politicians not the Islanders. There are plenty of people who love the team in Nassau/Suffolk, the players here seem to love the area. The reason revenue is so low is due to the on ice product for 20 years, a poor lease and poor stadium conditions. How many people in here say they will not pay a dime to Wang due to his poor ownership and the building, don't you think that has some impact? If they built a solid NHL rink in Nassau, Queens or Suffolk with the team steadily progressing, revenue will not be an issue. SMG will be out and the economy, which affects everyone not just Nassau, will recover at some point.
I don't like barclays because of the structure of the building and I know what problems will be associated with the mass transit (i have presented this argument previously so won't go into the debate here at this time). If I felt it was a good landing point for permanent location, I would be on board despite the fact it is difficult for me to get to. I like Queens which would be more difficult for me to get to. I still see all options as on the table and don't intend to personally insult or rule out any area until it is done.
There are plenty of barclays supporters who comment respectfully with facts. Personal attacks don't do the argument justice.
So many things wrong here as usual to promote YOUR agenda of keeping NYI in a place that doesn't work for big business pro sports. 3K STH's for full season is a fact no matter how you stretch the miniscule partial and discounted plans. You just can't admit that that number and NYI historical attendance is an embarrassment. Only the TV contract has kept NYI on LI NOT attendance.
The politicians of nassau and the people that voted them in are incompetent and the results speak for themselves. It's nothing personal but is only to you because you're from there and can't accept the truth and what many others see (even some from there). If they did a better job they wouldn't get slammed so much. Only 10% of the voting population voted on 8/1 and the majority said NO. Nobody cares. I won't even get into nassau being 1 of the worst run counties financially in the USA. Who devised the poor lease? Kickbacks to nassau politicians. Who is responsible for poor stadium conditions? Nassau politicians. Who voted them in? Nassau residents.
I've listed all the facts above why nassau doesn't work for NYI and why leaving is best for the team and none of it was personal but you'll never get past a personal perception pointing out the failures because you're from there. (Again - The money just isn’t there and the revenue streams wouldn’t be enough to matter due to lack of corporate support and below value returns on luxury boxes etc. The suburban model DOES NOT work.)
Instead, you just give us silly statements like the trains being inconvenient and Brooklyn's arena not being perfect while ignoring the bigger picture of survival (as nassau has nothing) and potential success. Any time you want to debate and drop the hurt feelings assuming things are personal and not ignore the facts I wrote above then let me know. Until then, using inconvenience and trains as your main point is comical.
