HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Edmonton Oilers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Perron a blessing?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-02-2013, 11:46 PM
  #101
Groucho
Tier 1 Fan
 
Groucho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Displaced
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,620
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Wasting a compliance buyout on Belanger's contract was a pretty poor move
Relatively cheap way to send a message

Groucho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2013, 02:18 AM
  #102
alanschu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Wasting a compliance buyout on Belanger's contract was a pretty poor move
Unsurprisingly, you missed the criticism.

The following poster proves a bit more astute:

Quote:
You were pretty quick to jump on MacT for not buying out Horcoff and buying out Belanger. If you are going to be straight up about this then you have to admit MacT did very well dealing with Horcoff and his inflated contract.

Face it, you jumped the gun once. There's no reason to think you won't continue to do the same, as you've already played your hand with respect to our GM.

alanschu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2013, 11:34 AM
  #103
Psycho Dad
Oil Kings
 
Psycho Dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sherwood Park
Posts: 10,567
vCash: 610
We're spending to the cap on players that are happy to be here. That's a big win for all fans, right? The rest is a track record of poor management and an undesirable geographic location. Party on, people.

Psycho Dad is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2013, 12:14 PM
  #104
Stoneman89
Registered User
 
Stoneman89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comic Book Guy View Post
Taken from the message board, this seems to be the sentiment from all around HF:



Now let's compare their vitals:

David Perron

Height: 6'0
Weight: 205lbs
PIMS: 44 mins
Plus/Minus: Even
Hits: 48
Goals: 10
Assists: 15
Source: Oilers.com & Hockey DB

David Clarkson

Height: 6'1
Weight: 200lbs
PIMS: 78 mins
Plus/Minus: Even
Hits: 84
Goals: 15
Assists: 9
Source: Leafs site & Hockey DB

FACTS:

- Perron is only 1 inch shorter
- Perron is heavier than Clarkson
- Both have pretty respectable PIMs
- Clarkson average 0.75 more hits per game than Perron
- Clarkson's overall toughness is more what the Oilers really need, unless Hall evolves into a bonafide power forward


I mean if you look at the fact that:
a) Perron plays LW, whereas Clarkson plays RW.
b) Perron is historically the better offensive player and the better fit on the top 6
c) Perron has a lower cap hit than the $6 million we were offering Clarkson

really... it's like MacT can't get anything right.
So if you say Perron is a blessing, what if Clarkson had actually taken MacT's offer and signed here long term for 6 million? Would you say MacT got that right? He wanted to sign Clarkson badly and offered him the moon. Fact is, MacT had his arse "saved" by Clarkson going elsewhere.

Stoneman89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2013, 12:16 PM
  #105
Tad Mikowsky
Retired
 
Tad Mikowsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanschu View Post
Unsurprisingly, you missed the criticism.

The following poster proves a bit more astute:




Face it, you jumped the gun once. There's no reason to think you won't continue to do the same, as you've already played your hand with respect to our GM.
Having the "FIRE MACT" under his name doesn't help either.

Tad Mikowsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2013, 12:39 PM
  #106
bucks_oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
All I posted was that Perron was the better player(and move for the team), but a secondary one for the Oilers. Furthermore, that the Oilers showed bad judgment pushing for Clarkson at the money he demanded, and that the Oilers won't be able to avoid their bad choices by virtue of being a less desirable location forever(it's on the first page, look it up). As usual everything gets into it's usual polarized debate which is standard around here, but this one has derailed into a weird discussion about how the Oilers weren't ever in a bidding war for Clarkson, to the point that apparently not even his current contract can be considered a baseline for what the Oilers would have been forced to pay for him to play in Edmonton.

A curious stance in a thread that is devoted to discussing Perron versus Clarkson to say the least.

If it was a "rate Mact's offseason" thread, I would balance out the criticism between the good(Horcoff move, greater defensive depth, Gordon signing, Perron move) vs the bad(wasted compliance buyout, inability to move Hemsky, throwing money at Clarkson, didn't really address the bottom 6). But it's not, and at no time did I attempt to derail the thread into that type of commentary, especially not to push some broad agenda as you are suggesting.

I'm not set in stone in my stance either. If you want to present an argument why Clarkson with his contract(again, a reasonable baseline) would be better in Edmonton over Perron, have at it.
So... ah...
Tarus: " So no, Mact can't do anything right as long as he's proactively trying to scuttle his team's future barely 2 months into the job."

You don't see how the above quote from your first post is potentially polarizing, derailing and could easily have led others to suggest that maybe we should judge MacT based on what he's done, not what he's rumored to maybe have thought of doing?

bucks_oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-03-2013, 07:24 PM
  #107
nexttothemoon
The Drive for Nine
 
nexttothemoon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,215
vCash: 500
When MacT made the trade of Paajarvi for Perron... honestly I thought it was so one-sided that I was suspicious that Perron might be damaged goods. Even with the 2nd thrown in... it certainly has the potential to be a huge steal for the Oilers.

IF Perron stays healthy that's a spectacular trade especially when you see that Perron is on a reasonable contract as well. Injuries are always a concern for any player though so you almost always have to take a leap of faith and hope for the best with any player involved in a trade. MPS could get a serious injury a week into the new season and Perron may not have an injury for years to come... in short who really knows what the future holds for anyone.

I agree... Clarkson would have been a solid pickup and would have given the team an element they don't have an abundance of BUT I agree his contract would have been egregious and he honestly is overrated for what he brings.

For me it's a case of Perron>>>Clarkson (and honestly I'd say that if I wasn't an Oilers fan as well).

Perron I believe is very underrated defensively and his offense is clearly superior to Clarkson. Again as long as Perron can stay healthy, it's obvious to me that it's better to have Perron over Clarkson... again the solid contract that Perron is on just adds to that advantage.

nexttothemoon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2013, 12:32 PM
  #108
MikeModano9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,267
vCash: 500
The fact Perron is LW and Clarkson is RW makes it instantly a better deal for the Oil. Then add in the fact Clarkson tricked the NHL into thinking he was a 6mil player... We did good on this one.

MikeModano9 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-04-2013, 04:01 PM
  #109
Tarus
Fire Mact
 
Tarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,517
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
So... ah...
Tarus: " So no, Mact can't do anything right as long as he's proactively trying to scuttle his team's future barely 2 months into the job."

You don't see how the above quote from your first post is potentially polarizing, derailing and could easily have led others to suggest that maybe we should judge MacT based on what he's done, not what he's rumored to maybe have thought of doing?
It was a specific criticism directed at his attempt to acquire Clarkson, which I stated a few times would have had disastrous to the team going forwards had he succeeded. It was not a generalized statement on all his moves.

Nor is Mact's attempt to acquire Clarkson as a UFA in the realm of "just rumors", unless you are feeling bullish and want to argue that in a Clarkson vs Perron thread. The speculation has more to do with whether the Oilers offered more than TO, which I stated barely a few posts down from my original one isn't a big deal as even if you just factored in a competitive bid against TO's, it still would have been terrible contract with long term consequences.

Tarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2013, 10:04 AM
  #110
bucks_oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
It was a specific criticism directed at his attempt to acquire Clarkson, which I stated a few times would have had disastrous to the team going forwards had he succeeded. It was not a generalized statement on all his moves.
Nor is Mact's attempt to acquire Clarkson as a UFA in the realm of "just rumors", unless you are feeling bullish and want to argue that in a Clarkson vs Perron thread. The speculation has more to do with whether the Oilers offered more than TO, which I stated barely a few posts down from my original one isn't a big deal as even if you just factored in a competitive bid against TO's, it still would have been terrible contract with long term consequences.
I don't disagree with you at all that signing Clarkson to a deal in and around what Tor signed him for would have been a questionable move.

I'm just not going to use the lack of his signing in Edmonton as an arrow in a "Fire MacT" crusade, its unfair and jumps to conclusions. Just as I wouldn't give MacT any credit for *almost* signing Horton or Dupuis or almost trading for Coburn for a bag of pucks. If he didn't get it done, he doesn't get any credit for it... one way or the other.

As for the bolded above. If you want to revise what you said, that's fair. People speak out in passion all the time. But own up to it... don't come on here and try to convince us all that you DID NOT make a generalized statement as the concluding line of your first post... "MacT can't do anything right" is exactly that.

bucks_oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2013, 10:45 AM
  #111
Dorian2
Positional Bias.
 
Dorian2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,846
vCash: 500
Regarding the Clarkson debate, which I have intentionally avoided. Fans should know that a team like the Oilers may have to overbid to get a player of Clarkson's caliber, so I really cannot understand why people are calling for MacT's head for trying to add a piece that would make the team better.

Plus, I sure would like to see some posters hold back on the "fact" that the Oilers offered him so much. From what I have seen, there are no "facts" regarding the negotiations....simply speculation and conjecture.

Anywaays, we will see this upcoming season if Perron was a blessing or not. From what I've read about him here at HFOil, there is a good possibility that the Oilers won the deal hands down.

Dorian2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2013, 11:29 AM
  #112
stratedge
Rebuild, year 4...
 
stratedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,335
vCash: 500
This notion that "toughness = Height + Weight" needs to die. It's so stupid.

Not that size isn't a good tool for a tough guy to use to his advantage, but toughness is 80% psychological; confidence, experience, and technique (whether it be hitting or fighting). Some guys have it, and some guys don't. Ference is an example of a smaller guy who has it.

Others, like Hemsky and Perron, have what I would call resiliency rather than toughness. They're not going to lean on the opposition, but the opposition leaning on them isn't going to affect them much either.

stratedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2013, 01:47 PM
  #113
bucks_oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
This notion that "toughness = Height + Weight" needs to die. It's so stupid.

Not that size isn't a good tool for a tough guy to use to his advantage, but toughness is 80% psychological; confidence, experience, and technique (whether it be hitting or fighting). Some guys have it, and some guys don't. Ference is an example of a smaller guy who has it.

Others, like Hemsky and Perron, have what I would call resiliency rather than toughness. They're not going to lean on the opposition, but the opposition leaning on them isn't going to affect them much either.
True... Barnaby, Domi, Mike Peca would all say hello and support your argument as well.

bucks_oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2013, 06:17 PM
  #114
Tarus
Fire Mact
 
Tarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,517
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
I don't disagree with you at all that signing Clarkson to a deal in and around what Tor signed him for would have been a questionable move.

I'm just not going to use the lack of his signing in Edmonton as an arrow in a "Fire MacT" crusade, its unfair and jumps to conclusions. Just as I wouldn't give MacT any credit for *almost* signing Horton or Dupuis or almost trading for Coburn for a bag of pucks. If he didn't get it done, he doesn't get any credit for it... one way or the other.

As for the bolded above. If you want to revise what you said, that's fair. People speak out in passion all the time. But own up to it... don't come on here and try to convince us all that you DID NOT make a generalized statement as the concluding line of your first post... "MacT can't do anything right" is exactly that.
Ah, that's the disconnect.

No, it wasn't a generalized statement, I was responding directly to the OP's post where you'll find at the bottom -

Quote:
really... it's like MacT can't get anything right.
You may not think a management group attempting to add a bad contract(successful or not), one that would have long term consequences on the teams ability to keep the good players they drafted is indicative of the GM's judgement, or worthy of criticism, but I do. We can leave it at that.

I don't care much about Mact being fired either despite the silly tag. I know how this organization is run, Mact has a job as long he wants it and there is no point in wasting energy on something like that as long as Katz is in charge.

Tarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2013, 06:43 PM
  #115
Hall2Nuge2Ebs
Registered User
 
Hall2Nuge2Ebs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
This notion that "toughness = Height + Weight" needs to die. It's so stupid.

Not that size isn't a good tool for a tough guy to use to his advantage, but toughness is 80% psychological; confidence, experience, and technique (whether it be hitting or fighting). Some guys have it, and some guys don't. Ference is an example of a smaller guy who has it.

Others, like Hemsky and Perron, have what I would call resiliency rather than toughness. They're not going to lean on the opposition, but the opposition leaning on them isn't going to affect them much either.
Exactly. I'm so sick of that height/weight theory
If that was the case Penner would be a tough sob and Domi would be a tiny, fragile player

Hall2Nuge2Ebs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-05-2013, 08:24 PM
  #116
5RingsAndABeer
John MacKinnon Fan
 
5RingsAndABeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 10,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
This notion that "toughness = Height + Weight" needs to die. It's so stupid.

Not that size isn't a good tool for a tough guy to use to his advantage, but toughness is 80% psychological; confidence, experience, and technique (whether it be hitting or fighting). Some guys have it, and some guys don't. Ference is an example of a smaller guy who has it.

Others, like Hemsky and Perron, have what I would call resiliency rather than toughness. They're not going to lean on the opposition, but the opposition leaning on them isn't going to affect them much either.
Fantastic post that bears repeating.

5RingsAndABeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2013, 12:36 AM
  #117
alphahelix
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,305
vCash: 500
No one knows what MacT offered Clarkson. Maybe it was 4 million, while Nashville was offering 6 million. MacT thought Clarkson would want to be a part of the build here, and bidding was in the 4m range up to UFA day. On the opening of UFA, bidding shot up and MacT didn't go toe to toe with the other offers knowing it would be a poor decision long term, but hoping Clarkson would stick with the Edmonton contract anticipating better results in this market.

Why is this story less likely than what the majority of you clowns appear to fervently believe?

alphahelix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2013, 12:52 AM
  #118
SLURVE
Registered User
 
SLURVE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 697
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphahelix View Post
No one knows what MacT offered Clarkson. Maybe it was 4 million, while Nashville was offering 6 million. MacT thought Clarkson would want to be a part of the build here, and bidding was in the 4m range up to UFA day. On the opening of UFA, bidding shot up and MacT didn't go toe to toe with the other offers knowing it would be a poor decision long term, but hoping Clarkson would stick with the Edmonton contract anticipating better results in this market.

Why is this story less likely than what the majority of you clowns appear to fervently believe?
I believed I heard on the TEAM 1260 with Gregor that in fact MacT had offered Clarkson more money than what he signed for in TO. Oilers had Clarkson in EDM for possible contract discussion.

SLURVE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2013, 09:48 AM
  #119
bucks_oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,917
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Ah, that's the disconnect.

No, it wasn't a generalized statement, I was responding directly to the OP's post where you'll find at the bottom -



You may not think a management group attempting to add a bad contract(successful or not), one that would have long term consequences on the teams ability to keep the good players they drafted is indicative of the GM's judgement, or worthy of criticism, but I do. We can leave it at that.

I don't care much about Mact being fired either despite the silly tag. I know how this organization is run, Mact has a job as long he wants it and there is no point in wasting energy on something like that as long as Katz is in charge.
My you are a petulant one. You wouldn't even quote yourself accurately.

Keep on keepin' on Tarus. Spin is your friend and I'm certain you'll always find a way to criticize MacT's moves, non-moves, almost moves, contemplated moves, brainstorm sessions, etc. I mean, it isn't even beyond you to betray the integrity of your own words in order to continue your discursive agenda.

For the record, you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Perron was always the superior player.

The problem isn't that the Oilers got Perron over Clarkson as some HFboarders on the main forums apparently believe, it's that the Oilers offered up a 5.5+ million dollar a year long term contract to a one time 40 point scorer as it's first choice during the offseason. Oilers management won't be able to avoid their horrible choices by virtue of being a less desirable location in the NHL forever.

So no, Mact can't do anything right as long as he's proactively trying to scuttle his team's future barely 2 months into the job.
Not

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus
really... it's like MacT can't get anything right.

bucks_oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2013, 06:48 PM
  #120
Tarus
Fire Mact
 
Tarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,517
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
My you are a petulant one. You wouldn't even quote yourself accurately.

Keep on keepin' on Tarus. Spin is your friend and I'm certain you'll always find a way to criticize MacT's moves, non-moves, almost moves, contemplated moves, brainstorm sessions, etc. I mean, it isn't even beyond you to betray the integrity of your own words in order to continue your discursive agenda.

For the record, you wrote:



Not
I didn't quote myself, it was a direct copy and paste quote of the OP's comment - ie. the thread starter(original poster if you are new to very old forum lingo), very first post of the thread. It should be prominently clear when you read the disclaimer that tells you exactly where the quote came from -

Quote:
No, it wasn't a generalized statement, I was responding directly to the OP's post where you'll find at the bottom
Which was followed by the OP's(original poster's) actual quote(again, not mine) -

Quote:
really... it's like MacT can't get anything right.
Which I responded directly with(this one would be my quote) -

Quote:
So no, Mact can't do anything right as long as he's proactively trying to scuttle his team's future barely 2 months into the job
Hopefully this clears things up for you

Tarus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2013, 07:28 PM
  #121
Stoneman89
Registered User
 
Stoneman89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratedge View Post
This notion that "toughness = Height + Weight" needs to die. It's so stupid.

Not that size isn't a good tool for a tough guy to use to his advantage, but toughness is 80% psychological; confidence, experience, and technique (whether it be hitting or fighting). Some guys have it, and some guys don't. Ference is an example of a smaller guy who has it.

Others, like Hemsky and Perron, have what I would call resiliency rather than toughness. They're not going to lean on the opposition, but the opposition leaning on them isn't going to affect them much either.
Robyn Regher says hi.

Stoneman89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2013, 07:35 PM
  #122
The Nuge
Farewell Smytty
 
The Nuge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,093
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
Robyn Regher says hi.
Still didn't change the way Hemsky played

The Nuge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2013, 08:10 PM
  #123
JaredCowenFan
The Next Bergeron
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,741
vCash: 500
Good theory.

I wanted Clarkson on Free Agency Day, but If I was told to decide between Clarkson and Perron, I'd say Perron.

JaredCowenFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-07-2013, 07:35 PM
  #124
guymez
The Seldom Seen Kid
 
guymez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,215
vCash: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
All I posted was that Perron was the better player(and move for the team), but a secondary one for the Oilers. Furthermore, that the Oilers showed bad judgment pushing for Clarkson at the money he demanded, and that the Oilers won't be able to avoid their bad choices by virtue of being a less desirable location forever(it's on the first page, look it up). As usual everything gets into it's usual polarized debate which is standard around here, but this one has derailed into a weird discussion about how the Oilers weren't ever in a bidding war for Clarkson, to the point that apparently not even his current contract can be considered a baseline for what the Oilers would have been forced to pay for him to play in Edmonton.

A curious stance in a thread that is devoted to discussing Perron versus Clarkson to say the least.

If it was a "rate Mact's offseason" thread, I would balance out the criticism between the good(Horcoff move, greater defensive depth, Gordon signing, Perron move) vs the bad(wasted compliance buyout, inability to move Hemsky, throwing money at Clarkson, didn't really address the bottom 6). But it's not, and at no time did I attempt to derail the thread into that type of commentary, especially not to push some broad agenda as you are suggesting.

I'm not set in stone in my stance either. If you want to present an argument why Clarkson with his contract(again, a reasonable baseline) would be better in Edmonton over Perron, have at it.
Well thats good that you actually admitted that the Hocoff move was good because you clearly already passed judgment on MacT future moves right after the Belanger decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
And it's official - Mact is an idiot, and is wasting a compliance buyout on someone who has 1 year, 1.25 million left on his contract.


Meanwhile the real buyout candidate is being retained because the GM is a delusional fanboy who thinks Horcoff still worth something on the trade market.
Belanger waived thread...post #50.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...5#post68638275

You clearly don't even bother to wait until the dust settles to post your vitriolic predictions on MacT and any pending decisions.


Last edited by Kane One: 08-07-2013 at 10:07 PM.
guymez is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:41 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.