Political Discussion - "on-topic & unmoderated"Rated PG13, unmoderated but threads must stay on topic - that means you can flame each other all you want as long as it's legal
Ian Laperriere comments on Flyers prospects sexual assault charges
UPDATE: talked to one of my old friends who still follows the OHL really closely, and he has a little brother playing in the league still, and apparently this girl was one of those puck bunnies, and apparently everyone knows she is crying wolf and it wasn't this huge deal that most are making it out to be in this thread. And apparently this is all really old news
Nice hearsay. Guess what, everyone I talked to said the opposite of what you heard.
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"Of course giving Sather cap space is like giving teenagers whiskey and car keys." - SBOB "Watching Sather build a team is like watching a blind man with no fingers trying to put together an elaborate puzzle." - Shadowtron
Sestito still on the make a wish tour. - rholt168
Many wondered whether Cousins was snubbed from the Super Series and Team Canada for his alleged off-ice transgressions
So 'alleged' equals 'guilty' now?
Nice to know. I'm going to accuse each of you of a separate crime, ranging from trespass to property to first degree murder. You will all be guilty at the instant I accuse you.
Hope you enjoy that.
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At the pro level, teams expect you to be an adult and act like one," Laperriere said.
So being accused of a crime (read: not guilty) means you are not an adult. Tell that to every man and woman 'accused' of a crime, Ian.
Frack off.
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"He's been in trouble with this stuff, but hopefully that's all going to go away. Part of my job is telling him that he needs to learn from that. You need to be careful what you're doing. All of our prospects need to learn from his situation."
So you need to learn that 'maybe', someone will say you did someone one day that you may be not guilty of, and try to avoid that situation?
Wow. Now let's see you pick the next lotto 649 number, genius.
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"It's all up to him," Laperriere said when asked whether Cousins is an NHL player. "He has all of the skills in the world. He needs to make that choice."
We all make the choice to be accused of crimes, naturally. Even if we didn't do it! It's not like sports stars have been falsely accused of ****** girls before! See the Duke lacrosse team and Kobe Bryant.
Nope, it's all 'their choice'. We are assuming they are guilty, mind you.
Totally understand and agree that you wouldn't believe an anonymous person on a message board. (and with your points)
Just don't be surprised when this goes away and nothing ever comes of it.
Oh I wouldn't be surprised, but that's because of lot of these cases get settled out of court, or it's he-said she-said and the prosecution thinks it would be too hard to win, or the woman who originally pressed charges decides she doesn't want to deal with the invasion of privacy that comes with a court case.
The lack of a criminal conviction does not mean that the accuser made the whole thing up (see Bryant, Kobe)
Oh I wouldn't be surprised, but that's because of lot of these cases get settled out of court, or it's he-said she-said and the prosecution thinks it would be too hard to win, or the woman who originally pressed charges decides she doesn't want to deal with the invasion of privacy that comes with a court case.
The lack of a criminal conviction does not mean that the accuser made the whole thing up (see Bryant, Kobe)
As far as I know, the accuser in the Kobe case had a history of credibility problems. The sex in that case occurred but appeared to be consensual.
Before the case was scheduled to go to trial, his accuser filed a civil lawsuit against Bryant over the incident. The two sides ultimately settled that lawsuit, with specific terms of the settlement being undisclosed to the public.[16] Bryant did, however, issue the following statement through his attorney, as part of an agreement with the accuser to dismiss the sexual assault charge:
“ First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo.
I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.
I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.[17]
You just reiterated what I said there. He felt like it was consensual at the time. He only found out she did not view it in the same way after the fact.
Given that it is unlikely Mr. Bryant is not a mind reader I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt here. It's unlikely he would have proceeded further had he known otherwise IMO.
Yeah, it's completely shocking, particularly given in that case it was revealed that the accuser had had sexual intercourse with multiple men in the days preceding/following the incident and the vaginal trauma was purportedly indicative of multiple partners.
Edit: because I just know someone is going to bring it up: I am not saying that such evidence is necessarily indicative that someone was not *****, but it certainly does not appear to represent the actions of someone who had been, which is why I think Kobe is telling the truth when he says he felt it was consensual.
Last edited by JaysCyYoung: 02-18-2013 at 12:09 PM.
You just reiterated what I said there. He felt like it was consensual at the time. He only found out she did not view it in the same way after the fact.
Given that it is unlikely Mr. Bryant is not a mind reader I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt here. It's unlikely he would have proceeded further had he known otherwise IMO.
What does this even mean?? I cannot imagine anyone who had sex at least once not being able to be absolutely sure of the partner willingness to participate. Utter BS from Kobe, IMO.
What does this even mean?? I cannot imagine anyone who had sex at least once not being able to be absolutely sure of the partner willingness to participate. Utter BS from Kobe, IMO.
What do you mean?
If he actually ***** her it would stand to reason that he would have bruises, bite marks, nail scratches, and other evidence of restraint on his person, would it not? There would be evidence in her vaginal area of forced insertion, there would be the presence of other tell-tale signs, no?
That was not the case, and in fact the prosecution found evidence of other male semen on her body, in addition to evidence of recent sexual activity. It also discovered that she had tried to kill herself multiple times in the past and was on an anti-psychotic drug at one point. This might not have even been the first time she made a sexual assault charge.
Not exactly the most credible witness.
And your post actually brings up a problem in many false allegation instances: consent was agreed upon at the time and then later retracted after the fact (the next day, hours after, who knows?). The point is that it can often be your word against someone else's and they can change their mind without penalty even after the act is completed. That's a frightening reality.
If he actually ***** her it would stand to reason that he would have bruises, bite marks, nail scratches, and other evidence of restraint on his person, would it not?
No. Not every **** involves a woman kicking and screaming and clawing. Sometimes the woman is afraid and intimidated - say, if she is with a much larger and more powerful person - and feels that the sex is inevitable, so she just tries to get through it with her life intact.
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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung
There would be evidence in her vaginal area of forced insertion, there would be the presence of other tell-tale signs, no?
Oh, like vaginal bleeding?
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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung
That was not the case, and in fact the prosecution found evidence of other male semen on her body, in addition to evidence of recent sexual activity. It also discovered that she had tried to kill herself multiple times in the past and was on an anti-psychotic drug at one point.
That's nice. None of this has anything to do with what happened in Kobe Bryant's room. Although we can see why the defense dug around in her past and released all the negative information they could find, because knuckle-draggers like yourself will eat that stuff up.
It's nice that you consider Kobe to be so trust-worthy, I mean he wouldn't have any reason to lie about anything, right?
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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung
This might not have even been the first time she made a sexual assault charge.
Hey while we're throwing around baseless allegations, it also might not have been the first time that Kobe Bryant sexually assaulted somebody!
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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung
Yeah, it's completely shocking, particularly given in that case it was revealed that the accuser had had sexual intercourse with multiple men in the days preceding/following the incident and the vaginal trauma was purportedly indicative of multiple partners.
Purportedly according to who, Kobe's defense attorneys? First of all, the vagina doesn't react differently if you have the same sexual partner 20 times in a week or 20 different partners in a week. Second, I had a long-distance girlfriend during college, meaning that the rare weekends when we did get together consisted of little more than staying in and trying to have as much sex as possible in two days. I can assure you that she never suffered significant vaginal bleeding onto one of my t-shirts.
Now, I don't know what happened because there was a lot of information and a lot of misinformation in that case. But it seems pretty dumb to just write it off as a girl out for money, given the physical evidence and the statement that Kobe made.
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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung
And your post actually brings up a problem in many false allegation instances: consent was agreed upon at the time and then later retracted after the fact (the next day, hours after, who knows?). The point is that it can often be your word against someone else's and they can change their mind without penalty even after the act is completed. That's a frightening reality.
You know what's a much, much, much bigger problem than false **** allegations? Actual ****. And women being ***** but not reporting it.
The sex between Kobe and the woman was consensual, until it wasn't. She was ok with it to a certain point, but at that certain point she started to say "No." So it wasn't as cut and dry as a normal r*pe.
No. Not every **** involves a woman kicking and screaming and clawing. Sometimes the woman is afraid and intimidated - say, if she is with a much larger and more powerful person - and feels that the sex is inevitable, so she just tries to get through it with her life intact.
So again, you're expecting the other person to be a mind-reader? A normal well-adjusted girl would give some indication that they are not consenting to the encounter.
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That's nice. None of this has anything to do with what happened in Kobe Bryant's room. Although we can see why the defense dug around in her past and released all the negative information they could find, because knuckle-draggers like yourself will eat that stuff up.
Ad hominems do nothing to support your argument. If you want to continue to be a patronizing dick argue with someone else. Now, I like and respect you as a poster, but crap like this irritates me during discussions. No need for it.
And I think it's entirely valid to bring up the past history of a person on psychotropic medications. If they are emotionally unbalanced they are likely to have a history of similarly unbalanced behaviour. It's detrimental to her case in any event.
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It's nice that you consider Kobe to be so trust-worthy, I mean he wouldn't have any reason to lie about anything, right?
I'm giving Kobe the benefit of the doubt based on what I know about the case and the established mental unreliability of the witness. People accused of something that they feel they did not do would not above be lying due to the external pressures on them.
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Hey while we're throwing around baseless allegations, it also might not have been the first time that Kobe Bryant sexually assaulted somebody!
It's certainly possible.
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Purportedly according to who, Kobe's defense attorneys? First of all, the vagina doesn't react differently if you have the same sexual partner 20 times in a week or 20 different partners in a week. Second, I had a long-distance girlfriend during college, meaning that the rare weekends when we did get together consisted of little more than staying in and trying to have as much sex as possible in two days. I can assure you that she never suffered significant vaginal bleeding onto one of my t-shirts.
Are you a 6'6 black athlete? I would imagine that Kobe is significantly larger than you or I are. This is said somewhat tongue in cheek, but is probably true in all seriousness. And since we're bringing personal experiences into this, I had an ex who was quite... virginal down there, and would occasionally bleed herself, even with relatively standard intercourse. Some people's bodies are different than others. That could be the case here.
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Now, I don't know what happened because there was a lot of information and a lot of misinformation in that case. But it seems pretty dumb to just write it off as a girl out for money, given the physical evidence and the statement that Kobe made.
The physical evidence indicated that she had been sleeping with multiple men over a relatively short period of time. And there was semen present on her clothing that was not Bryant's. That does not fit into a pattern of someone who had recently been *****. Now, I have no issue with someone who likes to sleep around - that's entirely of their own volition. But it does make me skeptical that the sex with Bryant was not consensual. As the above poster listed, what seems to have happened is that it was consensual to a point. Not to get too graphic here but I think it was the point when he wanted to "release" on her face that things became problematic according to documentation.
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You know what's a much, much, much bigger problem than false **** allegations? Actual ****. And women being ***** but not reporting it.
They're both extremely problematic. And the former causes problems for issues of actual ****, as I pointed out earlier, because it leads people to assume that actual victims are untrustworthy due to too many false alarms. We all know sexual assault is a pretty awful thing and should be prosecuted accordingly, but in cases like this it's not so black and white. It would also be prudent to screen out likely non-instances properly so that we can devote resources to actual provable instances. That's why I am shocked at the laissez-faire attitude adopted by people such as yourself: you don't realize that it causes tremendous issues gaining sympathy and being taken seriously for actual sexual assault victims.
Last edited by JaysCyYoung: 02-18-2013 at 07:46 PM.
So again, you're expecting the other person to be a mind-reader? A normal well-adjusted girl would give some indication that they are not consenting to the encounter.
You mean by saying no? That should be enough to stop whatever physical contact is occurring. Again, you seem to be assuming that the police pressed charges based solely on her word that she didn't want it to happen, which is moronic. Obviously they had physical evidence and her statement that sex occurred or continued without her consent.
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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung
Are you a 6'6 black athlete? I would imagine that Kobe is significantly larger than you or I.
I'm an athlete who is almost 6'6". I haven't seen Kobe's dong so I can't compare myself in that regard. I don't think that it's normal for a girl with some sexual history to experience bleeding from sex.
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Originally Posted by JaysCyYoung
The physical evidence indicated that she had been sleeping with multiple men over a relatively short period of time. And there was semen present on her clothing that was not Bryant's. That does not fit into a pattern of someone who had recently been *****.
Makes no sense. She admitted to having had sex with a person not that long before she had sex with Kobe Bryant. She said that the semen in her underwear was because she grabbed a dirty pair of underwear from the hamper before going to the hospital. Your statement seems to imply that she had sex with Kobe Bryant and then proceeded to have sex with other people, which wasn't even suggested by the defense. I suggest you bone up on the facts.
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That's why I am shocked at the laissez-faire attitude adopted by people such as yourself: you don't realize that it causes tremendous issues gaining sympathy and being taken seriously for actual sexual assault victims.
Of course it's wrong, mostly because every time there is a
"legitimate ****" (as you and Todd Akin would say), it leads to a stampede of men bringing up Duke lacrosse as if that happens anything more than a small fraction of the time.
Suffice it to say that we're not going to come to an agreement on how we both interpret the case anytime soon. I respect your position but I just disagree with it. To me it was a clear-cut case of one party believing one thing and another party thinking another.
I've always interpreted **** as being clear-cut physically forced sex and I don't think that applies in Kobe's case.
Edit: I'm also magnanimous enough of a person to ignore that Todd Akin barb.
