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Loss Angeles Kings @ Edmonton Oilers 3/20/17 6:00pm PST, 790KABC FSW

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03-22-2017, 04:32 PM
  #376
BigKing
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Originally Posted by lexlavender View Post
#1: He was an MVP. If he didn't completely fall off the Earth near the end of the season, he'd get Hart votes for sure. He's the only reason we'd stayed even close to playoffs for most of the season.

#2: You only move Carter if you get back another young center in exchange, or you have another deal lined up for that center.
Love Carter, but you can't say "if he didn't fall of the earth near the end of the season" as if that doesn't matter. He has vanished since the Ducks game while Kopitar has actually picked it up.

I'm fine with moving Carter if they can get something similar to what he pulled from CBJ in Voracek, 8th overall and a 3rd. Of course, he is five years older now so that isn't happening.

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03-22-2017, 04:39 PM
  #377
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Originally Posted by SettlementRichie10 View Post
Why are we trading Carter again? To maybe get a player that maybe will be as good as him in 4-5 years?

Unless you can get rid of Kopitar, Quick, Gaborik, and everyone else, trading Carter makes zero sense.

The half measure rebuild is going to keep us firmly in the black hole.
Well, you can't get rid of Kopitar, because no GM would take on his contract. The Kings are going to have to buy out Gaborik if they want to be rid of him, which will lead to more dead cap space.

Now the question becomes, can this roster contend in the next few seasons, which are likely the last productive years for Carter? The answer is likely no.

Next question. Is it better to hang onto Carter, which will only help seal the team's fate in the black hole, or is it better to trade him while he is still productive and get max value in return?

Can the Kings get a 1st and a good prospect or two from a playoff team with a need for more scoring punch?

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03-22-2017, 04:40 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by SettlementRichie10 View Post
Why are we trading Carter again? To maybe get a player that maybe will be as good as him in 4-5 years?

Unless you can get rid of Kopitar, Quick, Gaborik, and everyone else, trading Carter makes zero sense.

The half measure rebuild is going to keep us firmly in the black hole.
Because they can't trade Gaborik, most likely can't trade Kopitar, and probably wouldn't get fair value for Quick. Trading Carter(or Toffoli, Muzzin, etc) would be recouping some of the lost value from the contracts that they probably can't trade, and are potentially dragging the franchise down. If they're going to be bad anyway, trade the guys with value, and maybe set yourself up better for 5 years from now, when some of these bad contracts are gone.

I don't think that's realistic to expect, but I think that would be the idea behind trading Carter. It wouldn't be for next year. It would be for the start of the next decade.

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03-22-2017, 05:22 PM
  #379
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Recouping value if pointless if you don't have an overall plan and I don't think we should be trading Carter unless we are going for a scorched earth rebuild.

RETOOL DO NOT REBUILD

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03-22-2017, 08:26 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by CowMix View Post
Recouping value if pointless if you don't have an overall plan and I don't think we should be trading Carter unless we are going for a scorched earth rebuild.

RETOOL DO NOT REBUILD
Not even sure what this would entail, because there are at least 3 contracts no GM in their right mind would take in a trade with the Kings.

The ONLY chance at a rebuild, and it should be a rebuild if the Kings are no longer contenders, is to trade the assets someone else wants.

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03-22-2017, 11:54 PM
  #381
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https://lakingsinsider.com/2017/03/2...t-fast-enough/
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“They’re two really fast teams, so I think we struggled to handle speed and we weren’t fast enough ourselves,” Dustin Brown said. “When you look at both those teams, like I said, they’re fast teams and we didn’t play fast enough.”
What a revelation, a player on the team admitting that they can't handle speed. Guess we didn't need analytics to tell us that.

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03-23-2017, 06:52 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by CowMix View Post
Recouping value if pointless if you don't have an overall plan and I don't think we should be trading Carter unless we are going for a scorched earth rebuild.

RETOOL DO NOT REBUILD
The overall plan would be to be in a better position 5 years from now, and make moves toward that end, which a Carter trade would almost have to be, since you won't get another team's best young player in return.

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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
https://lakingsinsider.com/2017/03/2...t-fast-enough/


What a revelation, a player on the team admitting that they can't handle speed. Guess we didn't need analytics to tell us that.
Quote:
“A lot of it is just the connection of five players. And it’s D, forwards, just trying to stay together quicker. Be quicker together,” Brown said. “Sometimes the D are holding the puck too long and the forwards are getting too far ahead, and then the D are looking to move the puck quickly but our forwards are not there. It’s a two-way street and sometimes we get disconnected in our spacing and our timing. As forwards we’ve got to be there for the D and as D they’ve got to move the puck as quick as possible.”
He also said that. That's what the Kings did when they were winning. They were never fast individually, but they were quick collectively. It's not that they can't handle it, it's that they didn't, or haven't.

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03-23-2017, 10:17 AM
  #383
Ziggy Stardust
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They're not moving the puck very well because of the composition of the team. They're barely capable of connecting with tape to tape passes. Just look at how every pass in the offensive zone is along the boards and tends to be a constant cycle (if they can establish one).

Their breakouts are from D-to-D, then to a forward in the neutral zone who will chip it in the offensive zone, or launch a weak as shot from the perimeter as soon as they cross the blueline (Toffoli's go-to-move this season).

They lack speed, they lack creativity, they lack precision... all of that combines for one boring ass team that is simply dreadful to watch.

Looking at the bright side, we may be entertained by the high powered Jets. Really looking forward to seeing Laine, Ehlers, Scheifele, etc.

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03-23-2017, 10:45 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
Love Carter, but you can't say "if he didn't fall of the earth near the end of the season" as if that doesn't matter. He has vanished since the Ducks game while Kopitar has actually picked it up.

I'm fine with moving Carter if they can get something similar to what he pulled from CBJ in Voracek, 8th overall and a 3rd. Of course, he is five years older now so that isn't happening.
I'm not opposed to moving Carter either. He would garner us a nice return and free up some cap space.

I love him, but this is the second year in a row that he's fallen off at the end of the season. The longer the Kings wait to move him the less his value will be.

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03-23-2017, 10:54 AM
  #385
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If the Kings can pull off another Bernie Nicholls for Tomas Sandstrom and Tony Granato type move, I'd be all for it.

That is what we have to see from Dean now, like when he moved Demitra and Visnovsky, but hopefully with a better return for a player of Carter's caliber.

Would be great if they managed to work something out with Toronto to get a couple of young players from there.


Last edited by Ziggy Stardust: 03-23-2017 at 11:48 AM.
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Old
03-23-2017, 11:43 AM
  #386
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Demitra got the Kings a top prospect and a 1st round pick. I imagine Carter would get us something similar.

Moving Carter and one of Muzzin/Martinez would go a long way towards infusing some youth into the Kings' organization.

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03-23-2017, 12:20 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Demitra got the Kings a top prospect and a 1st round pick. I imagine Carter would get us something similar.

Moving Carter and one of Muzzin/Martinez would go a long way towards infusing some youth into the Kings' organization.
It was also a top prospect that had fallen in his draft, who ended up not even scoring 60 goals in the NHL, and a mid 1st round pick. That pick could've been Giroux, but it was still just the 17th overall pick. Minnesota had another, higher 1st round pick that year, that they didn't trade, which made the 17th pick more expendable. They took James Sheppard with that pick, so they missed out of Giroux too.

Just saying that could be what you end up with if you trade Carter. Could end up with the Kings next top player too, you never know. That's the game GM's play.

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03-23-2017, 04:41 PM
  #388
johnjm22
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
It was also a top prospect that had fallen in his draft, who ended up not even scoring 60 goals in the NHL, and a mid 1st round pick. That pick could've been Giroux, but it was still just the 17th overall pick. Minnesota had another, higher 1st round pick that year, that they didn't trade, which made the 17th pick more expendable. They took James Sheppard with that pick, so they missed out of Giroux too.

Just saying that could be what you end up with if you trade Carter. Could end up with the Kings next top player too, you never know. That's the game GM's play.
A top prospect and a pick is a good return, there's always a chance they won't pan out.

O'Sullivan's draft was 3 years before he was traded to the Kings. His value was based on the fact that he had just got done scoring 47 goals in the AHL as a 21 year old. He was one of the most highly regarded prospects in the world as I recall.

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03-23-2017, 05:10 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjm22 View Post
Demitra got the Kings a top prospect and a 1st round pick. I imagine Carter would get us something similar.

Moving Carter and one of Muzzin/Martinez would go a long way towards infusing some youth into the Kings' organization.
This is ultimately the best plan. If there is a team that is looking to make the jump from rebuilding/retooling to being a legit stanley cup contender, adding one or two of Carter and Muzzin/Martinez will really put them over the edge.

From our prospective, we would ideally be getting back two prospects/rookies for one in each deal (not talking about Laine, Matthews, McDavid types, more like Duclair types of players). If over the summer we can get three young forwards and one defensive prospect, it would be a huge victory, and improve our chances of competing 2-3 years from now.

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